Big wingspan looking for a smaller aperture

Lucky Hack

I shot this in San Diego this weekend. It was my first time shooting moving birds. I shot it at f5.6 and I botched a great shot, I had no idea the DOF would be that shallow. I'm going back next weekend and I wanna get it right, what aperture do you guys use when hunting the big game?

-hoping this message finds you well -Ian

David_S85

The answer to your questiuon depends on:
• Camera used
• The focal length you're shooting at
• The distance of the subject to the lens
• The aperture used
• The DOF range that you wish to capture

With longer lenses, and apertures less than f/16, the DOF can be a lot less than one might expect (sometimes only inches).

This web site's DOF Calculator might be of some help:
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Lucky Hack wrote:

I shot this in San Diego this weekend. It was my first time shooting moving birds. I shot it at f5.6 and I botched a great shot, I had no idea the DOF would be that shallow. I'm going back next weekend and I wanna get it right, what aperture do you guys use when hunting the big game?

-hoping this message finds you well -Ian

Lucky Hack

David_S85 wrote:

The answer to your questiuon depends on:
• Camera used
• The focal length you're shooting at
• The distance of the subject to the lens
• The aperture used
• The DOF range that you wish to capture

With longer lenses, and apertures less than f/16, the DOF can be a lot less than one might expect (sometimes only inches).

This web site's DOF Calculator might be of some help:
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html[/
QUOTE]

I'm using a D70
70-200 with a 2x converter so 400mm
The subject is about 30-40 feet away
and I wanted to get the photo sharp from wing tip to wing tip, so maybe 6 feet.

I just used the calculator and it says that using that combo, my dof at f16 is like 3 feet, wow, I had no idea, it was that shallow, I'm guessing the birds wingspan is between 5-6 feet and was hoping to have the whole subject sharp. But then why when I shoot other stuff at f8 or higher, the background is in focus? I must be missing something...

Cool calculator though,

thanks for the tip -Ian

David_S85

Yes, DOF is a tricky thing to learn. That's why hyperfocal distance is a cool thing to learn, but is almost useless with subjects that are far away.

The longer the focal length used, the better chance the background might be out of focus; but only when the subject is in the foreground or about as far away as the middleground. Farther away, and it might as well be the same as infinity.

What I'd like to see, is a DOF calculator (one with hyperfocal info as well) that is a little program that could be installed on a PDA, to carry into the field. Might actually get me to buy a PDA.

bkriete

Lucky Hack wrote:

But then why when I shoot other stuff at f8 or higher, the background is in focus? I must be missing something...

Shorter focal length? Less fine detail?

Steve Cavigliano

Lucky Hack wrote:

David_S85 wrote:

I just used the calculator and it says that using that combo, my dof at f16 is like 3 feet, wow, I had no idea, it was that shallow, I'm guessing the birds wingspan is between 5-6 feet and was hoping to have the whole subject sharp. But then why when I shoot other stuff at f8 or higher, the background is in focus? I must be missing something...

Cool calculator though,

thanks for the tip -Ian

Lucky,
I don't believe you are "missing" anything. David gave you some great info. Calculating DOF with long lenses can be eye opening. The main thing I look for is distance to subject. The closer the subject that you are focusing on, the more shallow DOF will haunt you.

The reason your "other stuff @ F8 or higher" is in focus is, that you are not focusing closely. This example might help. I use an 85mm lens to shoot indoor basketball. I usually use really wide apertures. Like F1.8 - F2.2. When the player(s) fill up most of my viewfinder (as in within 10-15 feet) I get a nice shallow DOF, with the audience blurred. When they are farther away (not filling the viewfinder), like on the opposite side, or the opposite end
of the court, everything is in focus. A deep DOF. Even when shooting with virtually a wide open aperture.

So, for big birds (or large wingspans) that fly close, you need to use a nice narrow aperture. This may cause you to have to increase your ISO setting, to maintain a decent speed.

One other tip, if I may? Try to lay your focus point on the bird's head. Worst case, you'll wind up with an in focus head and at least some of the wing(s) in focus.

Good luck,
Steve

Lucky Hack

Steve Cavigliano wrote:

Lucky,
I don't believe you are "missing" anything. David gave you some great info. Calculating DOF with long lenses can be eye opening. The main thing I look for is distance to subject. The closer the subject that you are focusing on, the more shallow DOF will haunt you.

The reason your "other stuff @ F8 or higher" is in focus is, that you are not focusing closely. This example might help. I use an 85mm lens to shoot indoor basketball. I usually use really wide apertures. Like F1.8 - F2.2. When the player(s) fill up most of my viewfinder (as in within 10-15 feet) I get a nice shallow DOF, with the audience blurred. When they are farther away (not filling the viewfinder), like on the opposite side, or the opposite end
of the court, everything is in focus. A deep DOF. Even when shooting with virtually a wide open aperture.

So, for big birds (or large wingspans) that fly close, you need to use a nice narrow aperture. This may cause you to have to increase your ISO setting, to maintain a decent speed.

One other tip, if I may? Try to lay your focus point on the bird's head. Worst case, you'll wind up with an in focus head and at least some of the wing(s) in focus.

Good luck,
Steve

Thanks Steve, that makes a lot of sense. Hopefully by the end of next week I'll have a chance to put your advice into practice, I'll be sure and post the results.

thanks again, hoping this message finds you well -Ian

Lucky Hack

David_S85 wrote:

Yes, DOF is a tricky thing to learn. That's why hyperfocal distance is a cool thing to learn, but is almost useless with subjects that are far away.

The longer the focal length used, the better chance the background might be out of focus; but only when the subject is in the foreground or about as far away as the middleground. Farther away, and it might as well be the same as infinity.

What I'd like to see, is a DOF calculator (one with hyperfocal info as well) that is a little program that could be installed on a PDA, to carry into the field. Might actually get me to buy a PDA.

Cool, thanks David btw, your Avatar is freakin cool!

hoping this message finds you well -Ian

ginger_55

Steve I just read your post, and I am rolling on the floor laughing re try to focus on the birds flying head.

I am just a beginner hoping to get a chance on BIF, ..........

this is funny, how do I buy that kind of time?

Anyway, that should clear up my focus problems. Actually last time I went to the osprey nest, off the highway, an egret flew, in the wild, over my head. I could not get a bead/lock/focus on that bird for anything. I would have taken the tail.

Bye, bye bird.

ginger

Lucky Hack

ginger_55 wrote:

Steve I just read your post, and I am rolling on the floor laughing re try to focus on the birds flying head.

I am just a beginner hoping to get a chance on BIF, ..........

this is funny, how do I buy that kind of time?

Anyway, that should clear up my focus problems. Actually last time I went to the osprey nest, off the highway, an egret flew, in the wild, over my head. I could not get a bead/lock/focus on that bird for anything. I would have taken the tail.

Bye, bye bird.

ginger

Yeah, the only way I can get 'em is if I see em comming from somewhere off at infinity and get a bead on them and wait for them to fill up the frame, but I'm sure I'll have a great time trying to focus on the head, practice, practice...

Lucky Hack

David_S85 wrote:

What I'd like to see, is a DOF calculator (one with hyperfocal info as well) that is a little program that could be installed on a PDA, to carry into the field. Might actually get me to buy a PDA.

I think I found one! I'm still trying to figure it out though

http://www.outsight.com/hyperfocal.html#digital