Finally got some shots of the kids BB

baldmountainbaldmountain Registered Users Posts: 192 Major grins
edited January 11, 2009 in Sports
The Nikon D50's sensor isn't really up to the task of available light basketball. It works, but you have to fuss with the images a bit more. You are always fighting noise and the auto-focus has trouble keeping up.

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The officials were great. We are very lucky to have them helping out.

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geoff

Comments

  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited January 3, 2009
    You did pretty good, but most of your shots need tighter framing and tighter cropping. There's too much dead space.

    Also, if you can, get lower and shoot up. For sports, this makes the players more heroic, especially needed for little league as they are much shorter than adults.
  • aktseaktse Registered Users Posts: 1,928 Major grins
    edited January 3, 2009
    The Nikon D50's sensor isn't really up to the task of available light basketball. It works, but you have to fuss with the images a bit more. You are always fighting noise and the auto-focus has trouble keeping up....
    Don't hold back when criticizing my photos. I'm not so attached to my pictures that you'll hurt my feelings. Don't be abusive, but do be critical.
    You did pretty well. What lens are you using? Did you use a custom white balance? What exposure settings were you using? Any post of theses?

    In general...
    1) images are soft (focus not lock or shutter speed too slow)
    2) WB is a bit off (fix in post)?
    3) Watch the backgrounds
    4) Watch where you cut off limbs.
    5) Shoot tight, crop tighter; too much dead space
    447893487_VJDog-S.jpg
    Good idea, but you have the other player running in the background and you cut of the limbs at odd points. Get low. Shoot low.
    447893662_LdnQH-S.jpg
    Another good idea, but you're shooting at the wrong place or waited for the wrong time. Faces! Faces are important. If you moved toward the right (or waited for a different time), you would have gotten the both faces instead of just the ref.
    447893572_QMdZY-S.jpg
    Another good idea -- action, got the bodies, etc, but you need to crop tighter. There is too much empty space.


    I find that people tend to blame the gear first instead of changing their perspective on their shots. I think from this post you believed (at one point) that different types of photography required specific gear (in which you might not have). Indoor sports is not easy and requires fast glass for good action results on a consistent basis.

    I don't know what you're shooting with, but if you don't have access to fast glass, be selective in the moments that you shoot and accept that there will be some action sequences that you won't get.

    Just change your thinking - e.g. Focus is slow? Pre-focus on an area and wait for the action to come to you.

    Action too fast for your shutter speed? Try shooting warm-ups because the movements are predictable.

    Keep up the good work and here's a good tutorial on shooting indoor basketball.
  • baldmountainbaldmountain Registered Users Posts: 192 Major grins
    edited January 3, 2009
    jonh68 wrote:
    You did pretty good, but most of your shots need tighter framing and tighter cropping. There's too much dead space.

    OK.
    jonh68 wrote:
    Also, if you can, get lower and shoot up. For sports, this makes the players more heroic, especially needed for little league as they are much shorter than adults.

    Normally I squat as close to the wall behind the baseline as I can. My knees were not cooperating and hurt a bit too much so I shot standing. I agree about getting lower with the kids.
    geoff
  • baldmountainbaldmountain Registered Users Posts: 192 Major grins
    edited January 3, 2009
    aktse wrote:
    You did pretty well. What lens are you using? Did you use a custom white balance? What exposure settings were you using? Any post of theses?

    ISO800, using a 50mm f1.8 prime. (My fastest lens.) Aperture priority, f1.8, wide open. Most exposures were 1/320-1/500. Auto white balance, RAW capture so I could fix WB.

    All went through Apple Aperture so I fixed the WB as best as I could tell. Luminance autolevel. A little contrast, vibrancy and sharpen. Black point and rescue to fix areas outside of range. Aperture's Noise reduction.
    aktse wrote:
    In general...
    1) images are soft (focus not lock or shutter speed too slow)

    I'd like to blame settings but I have a BAD habit of snapping the shutter rather than lightly activating it. This is technique error on my part. I'm working on it but during action I regress to snapping off shots.
    aktse wrote:
    2) WB is a bit off (fix in post)?

    I haven't color corrected my monitor so that may be why WB is off?
    aktse wrote:
    3) Watch the backgrounds
    4) Watch where you cut off limbs.

    OK
    aktse wrote:
    5) Shoot tight, crop tighter; too much dead space

    I'm making an excuse, but I was shooting with a prime so it is harder to get a tighter crop than what is there. The refs frown if you run out on the court to get the shot. :D
    aktse wrote:
    Good idea, but you have the other player running in the background and you cut of the limbs at odd points. Get low. Shoot low.

    Ah, yes, now I'm getting it. By shooting lower I'd be less likely to get background players.
    aktse wrote:
    Another good idea, but you're shooting at the wrong place or waited for the wrong time. Faces! Faces are important. If you moved toward the right (or waited for a different time), you would have gotten the both faces instead of just the ref.

    This ref had the greatest expressions on his face watching the players. I wanted a good shot of him since he was great with the kids.

    I agree about waiting to catch faces. This one was a bit early. If I had waited a little more I would have gotten the ref facing me and the player in profile.
    aktse wrote:
    Another good idea -- action, got the bodies, etc, but you need to crop tighter. There is too much empty space.

    I cropped this one like this on purpose. I was going for lots of negative space on the left. Maybe the negative space didn't work for this shot?
    aktse wrote:
    I find that people tend to blame the gear first instead of changing their perspective on their shots. I think from this post you believed (at one point) that different types of photography required specific gear (in which you might not have). Indoor sports is not easy and requires fast glass for good action results on a consistent basis.

    I don't know what you're shooting with, but if you don't have access to fast glass, be selective in the moments that you shoot and accept that there will be some action sequences that you won't get.

    I still believe it. I don't really own the right equipment for indoor sports. I'm shooting with a used Nikon D50 which is pretty noisy at higher ISOs, a 50mm f1.8 prime and an old 70-210mm f4-5.6 zoom. The zoom just isn't fast enough to stop action indoors at all. With the prime you get the framings you get.
    aktse wrote:
    Just change your thinking - e.g. Focus is slow? Pre-focus on an area and wait for the action to come to you.

    Action too fast for your shutter speed? Try shooting warm-ups because the movements are predictable.

    The first shot is actually from warmups for just this reason. The problem is that many times during warmups the kids are lined up and it is hard to get one person isolated. (I know excuses, excuses.)
    aktse wrote:
    Keep up the good work and here's a good tutorial on shooting indoor basketball.

    Thank you very much for the thorough criticism. I have read that tutorial and have incorporated what I can into the equipment I have and how I take indoor sports shots. I still have a way to go but need to work more on my technique and framing. Thanks!
    geoff
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited January 3, 2009
    With the prime you get the framings you get.

    That's why it's very important to know the limitations of cropping and be ready for the action when the lens is best suited for. I shot basketball last year with a D50 and the 85 1.8. If you are not going to use a flash, bumping up ISO to 1600 is a must. I know it's noisy, but if the picture is exposed properly, a properly exposed picture at ISO 1600 will look better than an underexposed shot at ISO 800.
  • baldmountainbaldmountain Registered Users Posts: 192 Major grins
    edited January 3, 2009
    jonh68 wrote:
    That's why it's very important to know the limitations of cropping and be ready for the action when the lens is best suited for.

    I agree. This is why I'm not rushing out to buy new equipment. I'd rather learn to use what I have properly, and what it's limitations are before I add more variables to the equation.
    jonh68 wrote:
    I shot basketball last year with a D50 and the 85 1.8.

    Actually, I think the 85mm would be better suited to basketball than the 50mm. Unless the players are almost on top of you the 50mm needs too much cropping.
    jonh68 wrote:
    If you are not going to use a flash, bumping up ISO to 1600 is a must. I know it's noisy, but if the picture is exposed properly, a properly exposed picture at ISO 1600 will look better than an underexposed shot at ISO 800.

    OK, I'll give this a go. Would a copy of Noise Ninja be a good idea or is Aperture's noise correction sufficient?
    geoff
  • jonh68jonh68 Registered Users Posts: 2,711 Major grins
    edited January 3, 2009
    Actually, I think the 85mm would be better suited to basketball than the 50mm. Unless the players are almost on top of you the 50mm needs too much cropping.

    There are times when I want the new 50 1.4, even on the D700 because you can get some great DOF shots when they are close and the backgrounds are far away.
    OK, I'll give this a go. Would a copy of Noise Ninja be a good idea or is Aperture's noise correction sufficient?

    I can't comment on those, but users tend to have good results. I use DXO when reduces noise and sharpens during the same batch process.
  • baldmountainbaldmountain Registered Users Posts: 192 Major grins
    edited January 11, 2009
    I tried ISO1600 and I think the noise is a bit much. Also a different lens. Not a very fast one, but it fit the budget.

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    I kind of like the distorted wide angle view in this shot.

    452840702_5sGMJ-L.jpg

    I also figured out why the white balance may be a bit off. There are LARGE frosted windows near the ceiling and they have the lights on. So you have two different color lights mixing. You can see the lights and window in the bottom shot.
    geoff
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