Good time to buy (50D and 10-22)?

eoren1 · January 8, 2009

I think it is finally time to upgrade the kit :clap
I currently use a Canon 350D and own the 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS, 50/1.8 mk I, Sigma 30/1.4, Canon 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 and a Speedlight 420 EX.
I've been getting frustrated with the 350D for a while now - focus only reliable with center point on single AF; slow FPS; not as many functions to take advantage of as the xxD series.
We have a family trip coming up on Feb 7 to Turks and Caicos which seems a perfect opportunity for the upgrade.
I have thought about this for a while (actually for over a year if you look back to this thread: http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=68924) and think I am settled on the 50D and the Canon 10-22. Including the hood for the lens and with free shipping, the total is 1740 right now (with $150 in instant rebates).
I am hoping for a very quick sanity check from you guys to confirm that, given my gear and what I shoot (a 1 and 3 year old as well as landscapes), that the above represents a good purchase. Also, any better places to buy the gear?
Thanks in advance!
E

kdog · January 8, 2009

eoren1 wrote:

I think it is finally time to upgrade the kit
I currently use a Canon 350D and own the 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS, 50/1.8 mk I, Sigma 30/1.4, Canon 70-210 f/3.5-4.5 and a Speedlight 420 EX.
I've been getting frustrated with the 350D for a while now - focus only reliable with center point on single AF; slow FPS; not as many functions to take advantage of as the xxD series.
We have a family trip coming up on Feb 7 to Turks and Caicos which seems a perfect opportunity for the upgrade.
I have thought about this for a while (actually for over a year if you look back to this thread: http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=68924) and think I am settled on the 50D and the Canon 10-22. Including the hood for the lens and with free shipping, the total is 1740 right now (with $150 in instant rebates).
I am hoping for a very quick sanity check from you guys to confirm that, given my gear and what I shoot (a 1 and 3 year old as well as landscapes), that the above represents a good purchase. Also, any better places to buy the gear?
Thanks in advance!
E

That's pretty much the going rate for this gear if you look on Amazon, B&H is just a bit higher. You didn't mention who the seller is, but it's always best to stick with a seller you already know and trust.

Nice choices!

eoren1 · January 8, 2009

Sorry should have said it was the Amazon price.

Cuong · January 8, 2009

I'd consider it a sane decision if you can afford it. Stick with reputable retailers and do it quick since you'll need time to get acquainted with the new toy/tool before your trip.

Cuong

dlplumer · January 8, 2009

I have both E, and am very happy with the 50d. Haven't yet found too much use for the 10-22, but it is a very good lens as you already know.

Shootin1st · January 8, 2009

There's a mint barely used 50D for sale on these forums

eoren1 · January 8, 2009

Shootin1st wrote:

There's a mint barely used 50D for sale on these forums

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm going to stick with the Amazon one - no offense. Mind sharing the reason for the sale? Anything I should be concerned about from a recent 50D owner?
Thanks,
E

Shootin1st · January 8, 2009

eoren1 wrote:

Thanks for pointing that out. I'm going to stick with the Amazon one - no offense. Mind sharing the reason for the sale? Anything I should be concerned about from a recent 50D owner?
Thanks,
E

Selling to buy the 5D MkII. I've had no problems at all with either the 40D or 50D. The ability to micro adjust would be enough to make me pick the 50D even though I never went through the process.

Scott_Quier · January 8, 2009

Sounds like a good decision to me as well. The only thing I might suggest is to think about getting a 430EX as it's head will swivel - makes for better lighting than the 420. And, with you max aperture being f/3.5, the little extra power might be useful as well.

But, the 10-22 is a sweet lens and I've got nothing but good to say about the 50D, at least compared to the 30D/40D bodies.

codrus · January 8, 2009

Scott_Quier wrote:

Sounds like a good decision to me as well. The only thing I might suggest is to think about getting a 430EX as it's head will swivel - makes for better lighting than the 420. And, with you max aperture being f/3.5, the little extra power might be useful as well.

The head swivels on my 420EX, you just have to push a different button than the one to tilt.

--Ian

eoren1 · January 8, 2009

Thanks for all the comments....I always get a bit hesitant before a $1000 purchase so seeing these positive notes is of great help!

As for the 420ex, it does swivel though requires some awkward maneuvering. The curious thing is that it registers the correct focal length only when the flash is pointed forward. If aimed up (for bounce), it registers incorrectly

By the way, I decided to go with the body only for now. Will be renting the 10-22 from borrowlenses.com for the 10 day trip to Turks and Caicos. That should give me a good sense of whether it is a focal length that I will use frequently and the exercise will only set me back $60.

E

kdog · January 8, 2009

Renting the lens is a smart move, but it doesn't allow you much time to practice with it before your vacation.

If I'm not being too presumptuous, I'd like to give you an idea for a type of shot which I love to do with this lens. I see from your avatar that you have small children. What you want to do is find some incredible view somewhere, and put your kids in the shot, directly in front and close to the lens. They must be centered in the shot. Shoot at a super wide angle, like 10mm, and F8 or so. You don't need a small aperture because the DOF at super wide angles is huge. Here are links to two shots I've done this way.

http://jacara.com/cpg144/albums/userpics/10001/IMG_2920_1024.jpg

http://jacara.com/cpg144/albums/az_move_trip/IMG_8709.jpg

Dunno if that's helpful at all. But those are two of my favorite vacation shots.

Cheers,
-joel

eoren1 · January 8, 2009

Thanks for the tip Joel...I'll have to keep it in mind. And cute kids by the way - we'll see if mine can stand in one place long enough to get those shots.
E

kdog · January 8, 2009

eoren1 wrote:

we'll see if mine can stand in one place long enough to get those shots.
E

Bribes. Think bribes.

eoren1 · January 10, 2009

Long post...lots of questions
So the camera (50D) is en route but I decided to download the manual and have become a bit overwhelmed with the choices available; especially in comparison to the 350D I am moving up from. As a preface, I shoot in RAW currently and process almost exclusively in LR2. I would greatly appreciate any and all comments on some of the new options available to me with this camera so that I can ‘hit the ground running’.

File size. My only quip about the 50D is that I would have loved a 12 MP sensor to limit the RAW size. I know that memory is getting cheaper but, with two kids, I end up with lots of photos. Currently, I select photos from a shoot and upload those to share with family. I have only printed one large (20x30 which came from an 8MP sensor and looks great on canvas) image to date (though I expect to print large more - though likely not more than a dozen photos per year). I do put together a blurb book each year to recap my kids lives. With that being said, does it make sense to shoot exclusively in sRAW1? How do images in sRAW1 from the 50D respond to enlargements of up to 11x14? If I do shoot in full RAW, is there a way, in LR, to ‘shrink’ the RAW file...ie in the DNG format?

Picture styles: Do these provide any info for LR to use in processing the file? As in WB which is easily changeable but provides a foot to start on, do the Picture Styles provide a similar function? If not, do you select the camera profiles in LR on import?

RAW questions:
Is there any benefit to the Auto White Bracketing function? I can’t see myself using this unless it has a hidden benefit I am not aware of.
From the manual, it appears that Lens Peripheral Illumination correction is of no benefit for RAW files processed in LR. Is this correct?
Any point in setting a color space for RAW photos? I believe not.

ISO: with the ‘expanded’ auto ISO range of 100 (200 with HTP on) to 1600 and the usability of these ISOs, do you have Auto ISO always enabled? Or do the benefits of dialing in the ISO (for example to ensure maximal dynamic range in the 100-200 range) outweigh the utility of the Auto ISO function?

Metering Mode:
Currently, I always have the camera set to center weighted average.
For the landscape and portrait shooters, do you adjust your metering mode frequently or rely on one in particular? I imagine I would choose evaluative with the 50D to rely on with a change to spot metering when looking for high/low key portraits. This mode (and changes) seems to lend itself to the custom banks of C1 and C2 - is that how most use those two dial options?

Flash Control:
I tend to only use my 420EX as fill flash and therefore leave FEC at -1 2/3. Is there any benefit for me to switch E-TTL II to ‘average’ from evaluative? Can someone share their thoughts on use of 2nd curtain sync? Sorry, total flash moron here

Live mode:
Does the Live ‘face’ Mode allow a good method for self portraits? I figure this may be a perfect setting for family shots (with me included).

Custom Functions:
1-2: Are 1/3 stop ISOs of use or do these have the potential of increased noise as they are ‘fake’ or ‘generated’ ISOs? Does this have an effect on the Auto ISO?
1-6: Safety shift - This seems great but the default is disabled. Any thoughts on potential disadvantages of this?
2-2: High ISO speed noise reduction. Should this be disabled for RAW files? Or does the camera apply some level of smarter (than LR) noise reduction to high ISO RAW files? If so, I would choose Low
2-3: Highlight Tone Priority: Again confused about this being disabled by default. Though I would ‘lose’ ISO 100, I expect to set this to always on.
2-3 Auto Lighting Optimizer: With RAW, seems like this has no benefit so expect to change to ‘disable’
3-2 Lens AF stop button function: I don’t get this at all....reread it three times! Any help?
4-1 Shutter Button/AF-ON button: Looks like Meter start/meter + AF start would be the best option for shots of a 1 and 3 year old (if I can get used to using that AF-ON button!). Any thoughts/experiences with these options?

Anyone using the Ef-D matte screen with grid? I had a problem with consistent 2-3 degree rotation on most shots with the 350D. Not sure if it was me with framing and shutter press or the camera. This looks like it would be of benefit compared to using the 9 AF points to ensure a level shot.

If you don’t mind sharing your C1 and C2 settings, that would be greatly appreciated. I can see how setting one to ‘landscape’ and another to ‘portrait’ may be of benefit.

Sorry for the long post. I'm at a conference today and had no wifi access so spent the entire time reading the manual and typing this up

Thanks in advance!!!
E

Candid Arts · January 11, 2009

I just got a 10-22 on my trip to alaska for three weeks. You can see my other lenses that are in my bag in my signature and I'll tell you what, I RARELY took the 10-22 off my camera. This lens is amazing. I would definitely suggest saving the rental money and just purchasing it. You won't regret it. It is extremely sharp and comparable to a L series lens. Also, definitely get a nice UV or other type of filter. But be aware when purchasing this, that it needs to have a very thin besel because of the extremely wide focal length. I chose the Hoya super duper pro extreme UV (I don't remember what the model is called PRO-1? I dunno, so super duper pro extreme will suffice), also have the Hoya Pro slim version in a polarizer, on downfall is the lens cap doesn't fit with this filter on because it's got an extremely thin bezel. But dusk photos with this polarizer on this lens are beyond phenominal, expecially with a clear sky, wow.

Ok that's my rant. Good luck!

eoren1 · January 12, 2009

Thanks for the thoughts on the 10-22. I'll probably come back with a 'you were right' but I'm going to go ahead with a rental as I really only need the lens for a family trip in February. After that, I'll have to come up with good reasons to buy it. For now, can't justify the cost.

Now, as a 50D user, care to comment on any of my rant above

Thanks again,
E

kdog · January 12, 2009

I don't own a 50D, but since nobody else has commented yet, I'll take a quick shot at a few of these.

eoren1 wrote:

So the camera (50D) is en route but I decided to download the manual and have become a bit overwhelmed with the choices available; especially in comparison to the 350D I am moving up from. As a preface, I shoot in RAW currently and process almost exclusively in LR2. I would greatly appreciate any and all comments on some of the new options available to me with this camera so that I can ‘hit the ground running’.

File size. My only quip about the 50D is that I would have loved a 12 MP sensor to limit the RAW size. I know that memory is getting cheaper but, with two kids, I end up with lots of photos. Currently, I select photos from a shoot and upload those to share with family. I have only printed one large (20x30 which came from an 8MP sensor and looks great on canvas) image to date (though I expect to print large more - though likely not more than a dozen photos per year). I do put together a blurb book each year to recap my kids lives. With that being said, does it make sense to shoot exclusively in sRAW1? How do images in sRAW1 from the 50D respond to enlargements of up to 11x14? If I do shoot in full RAW, is there a way, in LR, to ‘shrink’ the RAW file...ie in the DNG format?

I've read great things about the smaller RAW size in the 50D and 5DMkII. A lot of people think they see more noise with the 50D, but that's only really because it has more pixels. At a smaller RAW size, the camera interpolates the image down using all the pixels, and the end result is greatly reduced noise. So you'll get smaller files, and better quality by using one of the smaller RAW mode.

Picture styles: Do these provide any info for LR to use in processing the file? As in WB which is easily changeable but provides a foot to start on, do the Picture Styles provide a similar function? If not, do you select the camera profiles in LR on import?

I'm guessing "picture styles", which my Canon 40D doesn't have as far as I know, are irrelevant when shooting RAW.

RAW questions:
Is there any benefit to the Auto White Bracketing function? I can’t see myself using this unless it has a hidden benefit I am not aware of.
From the manual, it appears that Lens Peripheral Illumination correction is of no benefit for RAW files processed in LR. Is this correct?
Any point in setting a color space for RAW photos? I believe not.

I've never found a purpose for auto-white-bracketing. WB has no effect on RAW files. However, it does affect what you see in the camera's LCD (for whatever that's worth.)

ISO: with the ‘expanded’ auto ISO range of 100 (200 with HTP on) to 1600 and the usability of these ISOs, do you have Auto ISO always enabled? Or do the benefits of dialing in the ISO (for example to ensure maximal dynamic range in the 100-200 range) outweigh the utility of the Auto ISO function?

Dunno. I don't think my 40D has auto-iso. If it does, I don't use it.

Metering Mode:
Currently, I always have the camera set to center weighted average.
For the landscape and portrait shooters, do you adjust your metering mode frequently or rely on one in particular? I imagine I would choose evaluative with the 50D to rely on with a change to spot metering when looking for high/low key portraits. This mode (and changes) seems to lend itself to the custom banks of C1 and C2 - is that how most use those two dial options?

Sounds good to me. I generally stick with evaluative, and sometimes spot for special cases.

Flash Control:
I tend to only use my 420EX as fill flash and therefore leave FEC at -1 2/3. Is there any benefit for me to switch E-TTL II to ‘average’ from evaluative? Can someone share their thoughts on use of 2nd curtain sync? Sorry, total flash moron here

I'm almost flash illiterate, so little help here. I do know that second-curtain synch is a very specialized function generally used to get the smear of a moving object shot at a very slow shutter speed behind the moving object which was frozen by the flash. With first curtain synch, the smear comes out in front of the object, making it look like it was moving backwards.

Live mode:
Does the Live ‘face’ Mode allow a good method for self portraits? I figure this may be a perfect setting for family shots (with me included).

Dunno. I use live view for manual focusing only. I don't have face mode on my 40D.

Custom Functions:
1-2: Are 1/3 stop ISOs of use or do these have the potential of increased noise as they are ‘fake’ or ‘generated’ ISOs? Does this have an effect on the Auto ISO?

I've seen Ziggy and others say to avoid the fake/generated ISOs. I've used them occassionally and haven't noted any problems.

1-6: Safety shift - This seems great but the default is disabled. Any thoughts on potential disadvantages of this?
2-2: High ISO speed noise reduction. Should this be disabled for RAW files? Or does the camera apply some level of smarter (than LR) noise reduction to high ISO RAW files? If so, I would choose Low
2-3: Highlight Tone Priority: Again confused about this being disabled by default. Though I would ‘lose’ ISO 100, I expect to set this to always on.
2-3 Auto Lighting Optimizer: With RAW, seems like this has no benefit so expect to change to ‘disable’
3-2 Lens AF stop button function: I don’t get this at all....reread it three times! Any help?
4-1 Shutter Button/AF-ON button: Looks like Meter start/meter + AF start would be the best option for shots of a 1 and 3 year old (if I can get used to using that AF-ON button!). Any thoughts/experiences with these options?

Anyone using the Ef-D matte screen with grid? I had a problem with consistent 2-3 degree rotation on most shots with the 350D. Not sure if it was me with framing and shutter press or the camera. This looks like it would be of benefit compared to using the 9 AF points to ensure a level shot.

I'll let somebody else take a crack at these.

Cheers,
-joel

eoren1 · January 13, 2009

kdog wrote:

I don't own a 50D, but since nobody else has commented yet, I'll take a quick shot at a few of these.

I've read great things about the smaller RAW size in the 50D and 5DMkII. A lot of people think they see more noise with the 50D, but that's only really because it has pixels. At a smaller RAW size, the camera interpolates the image down using all the pixels, and the end result is greatly reduced noise. So you'll get smaller files, and better quality by using one of the smaller RAW mode.
I'm guessing "picture styles", which my Canon 40D doesn't have as far as I know, are irrelevant when shooting RAW.
I've never found a purpose for auto-white-bracketing. WB has no effect on RAW files. However, it does affect what you see in the camera's LCD (for whatever that's worth.)
Dunno. I don't think my 40D has auto-iso. If it does, I don't use it.
Sounds good to me. I generally stick with evaluative, and sometimes spot for special cases.
I'm almost flash illiterate, so little help here. I do know that second-curtain synch is a very specialized function generally used to get the smear of a moving object shot at a very slow shutter speed behind the moving object which was frozen by the flash. With first curtain synch, the smear comes out in front of the object, making it look like it was moving backwards.
Dunno. I use live view for manual focusing only. I don't have face mode on my 40D.
I've seen Ziggy and others say to avoid the fake/generated ISOs. I've used them occassionally and haven't noted any problems.
I'll let somebody else take a crack at these.
Cheers,
-joel

Thanks Joel!!!
As for the sRAW1 question. I found an answer elsewhere that suggests not using RAW but I'm going to play around with the two settings and see what works best. It would be great to shoot in full RAW but have an option to shrink those files that won't ever get printed large to a more reasonable size. Doesn't seem like any program is capable of this though

As for the other RAW questions: picture styles, AWB - your thoughts agree with what I was thinking...no relevance to the way I shoot.

And your flash answer actually does help a lot! i had heard similar descriptions about cars before but, for some reason, this one made sense!

Thanks again
E

divamum · January 13, 2009

I only have an xsi, but I have a 420ex so can answer a little bit about those....

- the xsi has the "my menu" function which I believe the 40d and 50d also have, which means I can put my most-used settings there and get at that quickly - I adjust flash power a LOT via FEC (circumstances and light change), but with the immediate access to that function it's a no-brainer and no problem. On the xsi, the "my menu" screen comes up first whenever you press the menu button, so it's right there with no fumbling around - that menu is one of my favorite "upgraded" handling features from the XT I had before.

- 2nd curtain synch does indeed mean that the flash pops at the END of the shutter cycle rather than the beginning of it. In long shutter exposures, you will, as has been said, get the trail of light behind the moving object (since the flash burst will freeze the action at the end of the shot). However, when shooting at faster shutter speeds there will be no visible effect on the shot afaik - I was advised to move it to 2nd curtain and leave it there, which I have done, and have been entirely happy with the results. So basically it's no problem just to leave it there. I also pushed my flash shutter setting to allow the maximum speed possible (on the xsi it's 200) - except for a special effect, that's likely to be what you want anyway, and you can always manually force the shutter speed lower in manual or shutter-priority if you want a special effect.

Fwiw, I have been VERY happy with my 420ex as an automatic flash - the FEC function allows reasonable control over it and I'm able to get good fill results with it.

- I haven't experimented with the highlight mode shooting yet (the xsi also has this feature) so can't comment there but if you use it and like it, could you report back for the rest of us

Have fun with your new gear!

D

eoren1 · January 13, 2009

Thanks divamum.
Guess it's time to switch that 420Ex to second curtain.
E

eoren1 · January 20, 2009

50D in-hand - Question on noise
Alright so the 50D is in-hand (as is the 10-22

)

Overall, I am quite happy with the 50D. The body ergonomics and build are much improved from the 350D that I have used for the past 3 1/2 years. Also, the added functionality, while initially overwhelming, does offer a lot of room for growth.

Now for some nagging issues. The first is noise. I use Lightroom to process the RAW files and I have read that it does not do as good a job as DPP. Also, it is effortless to see 100% crops by just clicking on the photo - which I do for comparing sharpness of images. I'm seeing noise at that level down to iso 200 and 400 and even see it at the 'normal size' in some of my iso 400 and most iso 800 shots. I have shot a number at iso 1600 that needed very heavy noise reduction in LR. Just wondering if this is the norm as most reports here have expressed comfort with using this body at iso 800 and even 1600 without concern. I have yet to print any shots so I don't know if what I'm seeing will ever be seen in that format.

The second issue is the detail. I took a few photos today with the 18-55 IS kit lens and, later, with the 10-22. With both at f/8, I was seeing less detail than I expected - again from samples posted here and elsewhere.

If you have a minute or two, I would greatly appreciate your taking a peek at some shots posted in this gallery with originals enabled. At the very least (actually, what I am praying for) is that you'll help set my mind at ease and just go ahead and shoot...

Photos here: Link

Thanks in advance,
E

[Deleted User] · January 20, 2009

Enjoy, my 50D and 100-400 came last Friday.

I agree with your "initially overwhelming" comment. But, at least you came from another Canon DSLR.

Time to update the equipment list!

Jim

dlplumer · January 20, 2009

eoren1 wrote:

Alright so the 50D is in-hand (as is the 10-22 )

Overall, I am quite happy with the 50D. The body ergonomics and build are much improved from the 350D that I have used for the past 3 1/2 years. Also, the added functionality, while initially overwhelming, does offer a lot of room for growth.

Now for some nagging issues. The first is noise. I use Lightroom to process the RAW files and I have read that it does not do as good a job as DPP. Also, it is effortless to see 100% crops by just clicking on the photo - which I do for comparing sharpness of images. I'm seeing noise at that level down to iso 200 and 400 and even see it at the 'normal size' in some of my iso 400 and most iso 800 shots. I have shot a number at iso 1600 that needed very heavy noise reduction in LR. Just wondering if this is the norm as most reports here have expressed comfort with using this body at iso 800 and even 1600 without concern. I have yet to print any shots so I don't know if what I'm seeing will ever be seen in that format.

The second issue is the detail. I took a few photos today with the 18-55 IS kit lens and, later, with the 10-22. With both at f/8, I was seeing less detail than I expected - again from samples posted here and elsewhere.

If you have a minute or two, I would greatly appreciate your taking a peek at some shots posted in this gallery with originals enabled. At the very least (actually, what I am praying for) is that you'll help set my mind at ease and just go ahead and shoot...

Photos here: Link

Thanks in advance,
E

E, your shots look pretty good to me. I noticed at least one with an aperture of 1.4 so I assume that was with the 30 mm which I understand is a bit soft wide open. Noise does not appear to be an issue in any of your posted shots in my opinion.

The kit lens is not great. I upgraded my kit to the 17-85 and am pretty happy with the value. I also use noise ninja on big crops when and if noise becomes noticeable.

PS I think the lack of detail is primarily the sigma 30 softness and the kit lens. Shoot better glass and you will be very happy.

Dan

Scott_Quier · January 21, 2009

Looking at your shots, I don't see much to complain about:

Indoor scenes - one or two of these I think might have been pushed in post - #4 is a likely candidate as it's so strongly backlit.

The lack of detail you see in these is caused by focusing issues. Some are focused in front of the childs' faces, the balance behind. These were shot at f/1.4 or f2.0 - very, very think DOF.

As for the outdoor scenes shot at f/8 with the 18-55 IS. This lens is quite good for the price, but it's known not to be a stellar performer.

Those taken at 15mm and 10mm (with the 10-22?) seem to be quite good. In the church, you can see the mortar between the bricks of the church, the texture of the bark on the trees, and individual twigs of the tree branches. Seems sharp enough and there's definitely plenty of detail.

For the beach scene (10mm shot), you have some softness at the edges (see the trees and building in the distance, left side of the frame). But, you can see the support structure of the water(?) tower and much of the structure of the trees in the center distance. The beach (center, bottom) .... detail doesn't get much better than that.

Bottom line - I think your camera is doing just fine. As suggested above, replacing the 18-55 would greatly improve many of these shots. As for the 10-22mm shots, that lens is doing you just fine - nothing to complain about there.

eoren1 · January 21, 2009

Thanks everyone - your thoughts and comments are GREATLY appreciated

I think I'll start loosening up as far as ISO and shooting with the 30 at smaller apertures. Your thoughts on the kit lens mirror mine. I had read that it is a sharp lens but, obviously can't compete with the 17-55 for rendering detail and contrast. The 10-22 is brand new as mentioned and, while I'm still struggling with learning how to shoot ultra-wide, it's comforting to hear that I can just think about the composition and leave the functions of the camera and lens to do their thing.

The interesting thing about the 50D is that the difference in viewfinder leaves me using the 30 much more often. Suddenly, the 50 feels too tight. Again, lots and lots to explore with the camera and lenses.

Thanks again for all the help,
E

Good time to buy (50D and 10-22)?

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