Looking for some advice with a first time purchase.

shneebly

I have come to the conclusion that my point and shoot is outdated, and I am ready to make the leap to dSLR. I have been doing some research and I have a near idea of what I want, but am looking for some advice.

I will begin by saying that I do not know what I will be shooting with the camera. This will be my first SLR and I am sure that I will be doing a bit of everything. So I guess I am looking for a versatile camera+lens, something that will allow me to experiment, letting me find my interests within the realm of photography, and then move on to something more specific to my needs.

In regards to budget, I want spend around 1000 for camera plus lens. At this point I am leaning towards the Canon XSI, but I am open to all suggestions. I have heard that the kit lens is not very good, so I am considering buying the body only, and a separate lens. This is where I am lost, as I know very little about lenses. I am looking for something that is versatile. Something that I can walk around with and shoot what I see. Again I know very little and am open to any suggestions.

I look forward to all of your responses.

Thanks.

Cygnus Studios

You should start by visiting a good camera shop. This will allow you to try several cameras to see what fits you best. A good walk around lens should be fast 2.8 or 3.5
A lot of people like a 70-200mm lens. Gives quite a lot of options. The kit lens is usually not the best choice, and this goes with any system. If you can, buy the body then the lens.

System

My $1000 recommended starter kit these days for friends and colleagues is the Nikon D40 with the excellent 18-55 kit lens, and it really is a nice lens. I've heard far more complaints about Canon's than Nikon's. Anybody poking fun at this lens on the Nikon side has no clue just how good it is. It's an excellent camera and lens with a rock bottom price, which leaves far more money available for other lenses. Add in a basic SB-400 external flash, a case, memory cards, tripod, etc and you're at $600 which leaves $400 for other lenses.

That all depends on what you want to shoot. There's the 55-200mm VR lens for a general telephoto perfectly suitable for landscape use or portraiture. If you want a FAST lens that will let you shoot in any light and let you play with selective focus, there's the $400 50mm f/1.4G AF-S lens which is excellent. If you don't mind manually focusing (very easy to do, except for moving subjects), you can get the 50mm f/1.8D lens (the "nifty fifty") for just $100. This lens will autofocus, but you have to buy a D80/D90 body or higher. If you think you might want to shoot birds, print big a lot, or need to crop your photos a lot, $100 extra will also upgrade you to the Nikon D60 body which is 10MP vs 6MP. I've found 6MP to be plenty for what I do as I don't commonly crop my photos very much. I've made excellent 20 x 30" prints from my 6MP D40.

You can start out with a D80 (still available new) for a bit more than the D60 and will give you autofocus support on a lot of the older and cheaper lenses (including the $100 50mm f/1.8D lens) or the D90 which is the newer version with better high ISO performance, but then you won't have much money left over for different lenses. The D40/D60 are perfect starter cameras with excellent image quality, and if you ever decide you want a more advanced body they're perfect backup/secondary cameras.

MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL is to go to a store and physically try the cameras out, see if the menu systems make sense, etc. The biggest reason I shoot Nikon is simply because their bodies seem more ergonomical to me, I can reach all the controls I need to comfortably without it feeling awkward, and the menus systems make sense to me and are easy to use. Some feel the exact opposite and prefer Canon (or Sony, or whatever)

Robinivich

For Canon, assuming you get the 18-55 IS kit lens, the optical quality should be none too shabby by kit lens standards, it's very sharp, and the only issues it has are distortion and a little CA, which can be corrected jokingly easily if you shoot RAW. Still, it's slow (small aperture), and there's something to be said for an f2.8 aperture (fast!), like in the tamron 17-50 f2.8, which would be an excellent choice a bit up market, though it lacks stabilization. It's also available in whatever system you might choose (be it canon, nikon, sony, pentax, etc)

As for systems, go with Steve's advice, try before you buy, get your hands on a camera and see which one clicks. Unless you're looking at some hardcore specialties down the road, every DSLR maker has a system that can provide, and some people just like the feel of one over the other.

The simplest answer for a canon kit including telephoto would be a two lens 18-55 IS and 55-250 IS kit, possibly boxed with an XSi, I'm not current on how canon's selling them lately. If you have the cash, then substitute the tamron for the 18-55 IS.

If this is confusing, just say so and I'll try my best to help out

:Edit: Just realized, two steves in the thread, I was referring to Cygnus Studio's recommendation about having a try in store. Between Canon and Nikon, I'd say things are all but tied, it's just a matter of feel. Sony, Pentax and Olympus have a few limitations ie the size of lens lineup, but unless you're hardcore specialized and need a very particular lens, they'll all do nicely.

swintonphoto

I would get an Olympus E-520 with the 2 lens kit. You could get that, sell the standard zoom and buy the 14-54mm 2.8-3.5 lens which is amazing. This would give you two lenses, an amazing camera, all for about $1000. Those lenses totally knock the kit zooms from other manufacturers out of the water.

ziggy53

Shneebly, welcome to the Digital Grin.

You'll see me saying this frequently, it's hard to buy a dSLR nowdays that is a total dud. Honestly, all the current cameras have a lot to offer, and that includes the entry level cameras.

Do remember that you are buying into a "system" when you buy a dSLR. Lens mounts are incompatible between most of the systems and Sony even uses a different flash mount (the Minolta Maxxum flash mount) that is incompatible with the industry standard ISO flash mount. But even the ISO flash mount doesn't mean compatibility because all the different manufacturers use "dedicated" flash connections that are incompatible with each other, so the more advanced flash units are not interchangeable between manufacturers.

What is it that you mostly used your P&S camera for?
What is it you are mostly wanting to do? (... or what is it your P&S did not do well that you wished for?)
What specific applications do you have in mind? (Sports, events, portraiture, landscape, macro, etc.)

M.MoranPhotography

shneebly wrote:

I have been doing some research and I have a near idea of what I want, but am looking for some advice.

Canon Xsi should be fine for you, or a rebel Xti if you are on a budget, Nikon wise, I'd look at a D40 or D60, and I'd highly recommend going into the store to try these both before you make your purchase.

Good luck. :P

shneebly

Thanks to everyone for the advice, seems like a very helpful forum

In response to Steve's advice of going to the store to get a hold of the camera's, I have, I am pretty certain that I prefer the Canon's over the Nikon's and Sony's. Although I did not get to play around to much, and the selection was limited so I am going for a second visit somewhere else.

In response to your questions ziggy, its hard for me to say. With my point and shoot I took pictures of everything from people to nature, not too much macro or sports but I am not saying that I won't get into things like that with a dSLR. So maybe it is a good idea to stick with the kit lens until I figure out what my specific needs are.

Then again with I did find a pretty great deal, almost too good to be true (is it?). XSI Body for $250.

http://soniccameras.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=757_1241&products_id=4908

With that price I would consider going straight to something like a Tamron 2.8. People seem to like those. Would the lack of IS be a problem for an amateur?

ziggy53

shneebly wrote:

...

In response to your questions ziggy, its hard for me to say. With my point and shoot I took pictures of everything from people to nature, not too much macro or sports but I am not saying that I won't get into things like that with a dSLR. So maybe it is a good idea to stick with the kit lens until I figure out what my specific needs are.

Then again with I did find a pretty great deal, almost too good to be true (is it?). XSI Body for $250.

http://soniccameras.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=757_1241&products_id=4908

With that price I would consider going straight to something like a Tamron 2.8. People seem to like those. Would the lack of IS be a problem for an amateur?

Please remember the old adage, "If it seems too good to be true, it probably is not true."

We just had a minor discussion about SonicCameras starting at:

http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1009715&postcount=172
http://dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1010787&postcount=173

They are, I believe, a scam outfit.

I recommend, and I purchase from:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/
http://www.adorama.com/
http://www.calumetphoto.com

Others also recommend:

http://www.tallyns.com/tpp/amazing/index.asp
http://www.amazon.com/

I recommend a little discretion with Amazon since you need to research the particular vendor(s) selling through the Amazon interface. Some are great, some not so great.

All that said, the Canon XSi is a fairly nice entry level camera and will take a wide variety of Canon lenses and accessories and third-party lenses as well.

Do take a look at as many cameras as you can before committing. A dSLR is part of a system, so you need to look at all parts of the systems to see if they might work better or worse for you and your specific applications.

We have people at the Digital Grin who are happy with cameras made by:

Canon
Nikon
Sony/Minolta
Olympus
Pentax
... and others.

All modern cameras have merit so it pays to find the particular features that best suit you and your style of photography.

waygard33

I have an XSi
I bought the XSi about 2 months ago from Costco. For $849 I got:
-The camera
-EFS 18-55 3.5-5.6 IS kit lens
-EFS 55-250, 4 - 5.6 IS kit lens
-Very nice, big, carry bag
-2 meg SD mem card

I've seen very similar prices at B&H photo. Seems like I got a 'typical' price. The $250 for an XSi body sure sounds too good to be true.

When I started using the camera, I quickly realized the lenses weren't 'fast' enough for basketball. After reading the forums I bought the EF 50 mm 1.8 lens for $82 on Amazon. This lens is what I'm shooting my son's basketball with.

I also picked up an EF 28-105 USM 3.5-4.5 zoom lens for $219 on Amazon. This is the lens I have on the camera most of the time.

The camera and lenses have been great overall. I'm a beginner and this equipment is way better than I am. I'll be using the 55-250 lens a lot more soon as baseball gets going.

Here's a basketball shot with the 50mm. At ISO 1600, I'm still at 1/320 shutter speed. I still need a little faster shutter speed or more light but this is way better than I got previously with the slower lenses:


Here's a pic of Mt Hood using the 28-105 lens. I really like this lens and it was pretty cheap.


I didnt spend much time with the Nikons. I have had Canon film SLRs and Point and Shoots in the past and was just comfortable with them. I have played with a D90 in the stores and really like that camera. It's bigger and heavier than the XSi but is also several hundered dollars more. I also like the Canon 50D but both of those cameras were more than I need. If my budget was bigger though, I would have looked harder at the those cameras. Overall, I'm very happy with the XSi.

On another note, if you want to stay closer to that low price, I purchased a Canon XS for my daughter's birthday. I ordered it from Adorama for $449 (i think). It's the same body, but smaller rear screen, and 10 megapixels instead of 12. She's an art student in college and is really enjoying the camera so far. Her pictures look better than mine but she can do that with any camera.
Good luck with your choice. HTH.

paddler4

I just got back into moderately serious photography within the past year, after many years away, so all the equipment was new to me, and I had a lot to learn and relearn. So, my experience may be helpful.

Re the advice to handle a bunch of cameras first: do it. You won't regret it.

My suggestion is that unless you have a lot of money, buy a fairly inexpensive body and the kit lens to start. Re the body: I have an XTi, which is near the bottom of Canon's line, and it will be a long time before I run out of room with it. It is a very capable camera. I came to really dislike the kit lens within a few months, but it costs very little (compare the costs with and without it), so it is a cheap way to buy time to figure out how you are going to use the camera before you start investing in glass, which is going to cost you.

I ended up with three lenses so far, in addition to the kit lens, which I keep for the rare times that I want the short end of the range. I chose them all based on what and how I shoot. E.g., for what I do, speed matters more than size, so I bought a Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 to use instead of the kit lens. It is a great deal--wonderful optics for the price--but you may find that for you, it is not the right choice.

So, once you have a body and have spent some time shooting--and looking at other people's pictures--you'll develop more of an idea of what you want to do. Then post questions about that, and you will get a lot of suggestions about lenses and other equipment for those purposes.

Cygnus Studios

As Ziggy mentioned the system is the key. Whatever system you choose it will just be the beginning. Almost everyone will upgrade the body at some point. Good quality glass is very important. Think long term when choosing your glass. Consider what other areas of photography that you may want to move into as time goes along. Keep in mind that it is the glass that keeps 99% of us locked into our systems. So your choice of system should be one that will last you a lifetime.
The system you choose should feel comfortable in your hands. The menus and buttons should be easy for you to work with. There are lots of choices out there, and trying before you buy helps quite a bit.

pathfinder

I want to repeat what Ziggy said earlier.

WHen you buy a DSLR, you are NOT buying a camera, you are buying a ticket into a system of lenses, flashes, and several different levels of camera bodies. The body is probably the least important of your choices. Once you commit to a system it is hard to change horses, because the investment is significant.

Nikon and Canon are the two most complete systems that are favored by advanced amateurs and pros. Combined, Nikon and Canon must sell nearly 90% of the total of all DSLRs sold. One consequence of this is that there is always a robust secondary market for buying and selling used Nikon or Canon gear.

Other makes, like Pentax, Olympus, Sony, all have excellent wares, but usually their total system offers a slightly narrower series of choices, and that is one reason why they are not as favored by the pros and advanced amateurs. Another reason is that, since they command a much smaller portion of the market, other optic manufacturers ( Tamron, Sigma, Tokina, and others ) do not offer the same number of non-OEM lens for them that they offer for Nikon and Canon.

Take you time to make your decision, after reviewing the systems offered by each manufacturer. Be aware that many of the reviews you read are not completely impartial.

You can make excellent images with any of the current DSLRs from any of the manufacturers if you understand modern digital camera usage. As was suggested, try to hold different brands and look through the view finders.