PocketWizards vs STE2

eichert12 · January 10, 2009

I recently got my first light stand and umbrella to try some off camera flash. Now I need something to trigger my 580EX II. I've looked at the STE2 a number of times and just recently heard some folks mention PocketWizards. Can a PocketWizard "Transceiver" [1] trigger a 580EX? Or would "other stuff" be required?

[1] http://www.amazon.com/PocketWizard-PWP-TR-801-125-Transceiver-Black/dp/B000GHXMO8/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1231635319&sr=1-2

Cheers,
Steve

Zanotti · January 10, 2009

The STE2 works via IR and maintains the ETTL use of your Canon kit.

The pocket wizard uses radio waves and works manually only.

IR is short distance only and sometimes very line of site. Wizards work in the next room, across a big sunny area, maybe into the next county.

Inside in samll rooms STE2 rocks, everywhere else Wizards win. Oh yeah, wizards are wicked expensive and you need multiple senders and recievers.

STE2 works with as many (Canon) flashes as you own.

Its never easy!

Z

PS: Ziggy or Pathfinder will be along any moment and will explain it to you in much easier terms!

pathfinder · January 10, 2009

To trigger a 580ex off camera with a PW, you will require a hotshoe to miniphone connector. Paramount makes them as do others. A 580ex does not have a way to connect a PC cord to the flash. The ST-E2 will trigger a 580ex via an Infra red flash that carries information, so it will allow ETTL usage.

With a PW, you get much longer range with the radio connection, but you give up ETTL, and can only trigger the flash in Manual Mode for the flash. This means that you will need to know the flash to subject distance and it will have to stay constant for your lighting to remain consistent from frame to frame.

With ETTL, the 580ex is quenched ( turned off) after the appropriate amount of light has shined on the subject, no matter how the subject moves from frame to frame.

I have written a bit about the EOS flash system here

Both systems are useful. In the studio where I can control the flash to subject distance ( I can tell the subject to stand THERE or sit HERE ) manual flash is great. Get you exposure, dial it into your camera in manual mode, and you do not have to think further about exposure, just lighting and composition.

For candid portraits of your kids, who are roaming about and won't stand still while you compose your shot, the added freedom of ETTL ( where the camera and flash control the lighting read time ) is great. I wrote about Christmas candids here with the ST-E2

I love both systems, but they are different tools for different situations. If you try to use the wrong tool for the wrong situation, you will get very frustrated very quickly.

The 580ex II does come with a PC connection port for off camera flash firing with a PC cord. It does not come with the cord however, that is an extra additional expence. The 580exII does offer off camera flash metering with a PW - you can read about it here _ Read that link carefully, as you must tell the flash directly ( input yourself directly with the flash buttons ) what ISO and aperture you are using, and you cannot use High SPeed Synch either.

eichert12 · January 10, 2009

Thank you, extremely helpful as always! I came across your EOS series previously but need to read through it again, thanks for the link.

I think the STE2 would be a better fit for me at this point. Now I just need to find a good price on it somewhere!

Thanks,
Steve

rwells · January 10, 2009

eichert12 wrote:

Thank you, extremely helpful as always! I came across your EOS series previously but need to read through it again, thanks for the link.

I think the STE2 would be a better fit for me at this point. Now I just need to find a good price on it somewhere!

Thanks,
Steve

Then save up for some RadioPoppers - Best of both worlds

BTW: The 580EXll does not come with the PC cord like pathfinder stated, but the PocketWizard's do. So, no extra expense there.

pathfinder · January 10, 2009

Doesn't it seems really poor business practice for the price of the 580ex II, for it not to come with a PC cord?

Isn't that really tacky?

rwells · January 11, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

Doesn't it seems really poor business practice for the price of the 580ex II, for it not to come with a PC cord?

Isn't that really tacky?

Yes

&

Yes :cry

ziggy53 · January 11, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

Doesn't it seems really poor business practice for the price of the 580ex II, for it not to come with a PC cord?

Isn't that really tacky?

Likewise it is IMO a poor business decision for Canon to not include lens hoods with so many of their lenses.

What is Canon corporate thinking?

Zanotti · January 11, 2009

To add to that, I would prefer that Canon simply build in the off camera trigger into the camera.

I would rather have this than video and it must be cheaper to execute.

Doesn't Nikon already do this?

Z

.

ipduffy · January 11, 2009

Pocket Wizards
A point of clarification about the PocketWizards - you will need two (2) of them to trigger your 580EX II off camera - one connected to the flash to receive the signal and one on your camera's hotshoe to transmit the signal. That is why many people consider them to be expensive - because you have to buy multiples. That said, everyone I've heard from who's used them loves them.

With the ST-E2 you will be able to start firing your 580 EX II off camera immediately; just put it into slave mode and configure its slave group and channel to match your ST-E2 and you're good to go. No other accessories required.

Also, you can shoot manual flash rather than relying on E-TTL flash metering with the ST-E2. I have the 430 EX and it is possible to put them into manual power mode while they are in slave mode, so if you don't want to be forced to use E-TTL you also have that option. I am assuming that since the 430 has manual slave capability that the 580 also has it.

Cheers!

ziggy53 · January 11, 2009

Zanotti wrote:

To add to that, I would prefer that Canon simply build in the off camera trigger into the camera.

I would rather have this than video and it must be cheaper to execute.

Doesn't Nikon already do this?

Z

.

Nikon does indeed build in a "Commander Mode" into their better cameras. This allows the camera to act as master for remote flashes. It is a very valuable feature and yes, I do wish Canon would consider something similar. There may be patent issues that prevent it however.

gryphonslair99 · January 11, 2009

The one thing I would add to the discussion for the OP to consider is the future. If you are pretty much where you plan to be then the ST-E2 will suite you fine in most instances. It will also suite you fine if you plan on adding additional EOS speedlites to your kit.

If you are seriously planning on going to studio lighting of some sort in the future then PW's or one of the other brands might be something to consider. I have always been a proponent of buying gear whenever possible that will multi-task in order to save money.

ST-E2 only works for Canon speedlites.

Radiopoppers are range extenders for ETTL and are great for what they are designed for buy they won't trigger studio lights.

PW's, Skyports, Cybersync's, Cactus Triggers etc will work with your speedlites now and with studiio lights later. You will not have ETTL with you speedlites with radio triggers however.

It comes down to what will suite your needs the best now and later for the money spent.

divamum · January 11, 2009

Re the ste2 - just after Xmas Amazon had them - full US warranttee brand new - for $165! The price went back up, BUT it does mean if you stalk the usual sites you may be able to find one for less thant he $220+ retail. Also, they seem to appear used on Fred Miranda relatively regularly, and I saw prices from $120-190. At last check, I think that Adorama had grey market ones for about $179.

I'm new to off camera flash, but for a n00b like me the STE2 is ideal - I can continue to use ETTL (since I have a 420ex, I have no choice - that flash has no manual mode) and I don't have any particular need for long-range so I'm good to go for the time being. It worked exactly as described straight out of the box, so for me at my stage of things it was exactly the right tool for the job.

rwells · January 11, 2009

I would highly recommend reading through Chuck Gardner's excellent tutorials about the 580EX series of flashes. (and his other tuts also)

Chuck explains his reasoning for NOT purchasing the STE2, but instead, invest a little more and get a second 580EX. It does give a huge advantage to the versatility of the Canon system, as opposed to only one flash and the STE2.

YMMV, but I have found it to be a very good logic.

Also, the STE2 can only control 2 groups, A&B. A 580EX can control three groups, A&B + C (C being a background group)

Having two 580EX flash's also does another thing the STE2 cannot: gives you a backup flash if you need it. (As in shooting weddings, etc)

Contrary to how it sounds, I'm not selling 580EX flash's

Personally, due to Chuck's info, I own three of them. 1 580EX, 2 580EXll

Hope that helps.

rwells · January 11, 2009

gryphonslair99 wrote:

Radiopoppers are range extenders for ETTL and are great for what they are designed for buy they won't trigger studio lights.

No longer true!

RadioPoppers has now done the second, until now, unobtainable feat:

You can control ETTL/iTTL via RadioPoppers --- PLUS --- At the SAME TIME control studio lights

Paul Buff's lights (White Lightning & Alien Bees), power levels can also be controlled via the RadioPoppers.

They also have units that are only "triggers", like pocketwizards.

A heck of a product: Again, changing the way we can do things

eichert12 · January 11, 2009

As usual just as I think I have things figured out someone refers me to some other information that makes me consider another option I hadn't considered. Adding the option of another 580EX and RadioPoppers to my list of options.

Thanks for the thoughts!
~ Steve

gryphonslair99 · January 11, 2009

rwells wrote:

I would highly recommend reading through Chuck Gardner's excellent tutorials about the 580EX series of flashes. (and his other tuts also)

Chuck explains his reasoning for NOT purchasing the STE2, but instead, invest a little more and get a second 580EX. It does give a huge advantage to the versatility of the Canon system, as opposed to only one flash and the STE2.

YMMV, but I have found it to be a very good logic.

Also, the STE2 can only control 2 groups, A&B. A 580EX can control three groups, A&B + C (C being a background group)

Having two 580EX flash's also does another thing the STE2 cannot: gives you a backup flash if you need it. (As in shooting weddings, etc)

Contrary to how it sounds, I'm not selling 580EX flash's

Personally, due to Chuck's info, I own three of them. 1 580EX, 2 580EXll

Hope that helps.

While they look interesting, until they ship and prove to do what they are advertised as being capable of they are just speculation. They will be interesting however when they hit the market.

rwells · January 11, 2009

gryphonslair99 wrote:

While they look interesting, until they ship and prove to do what they are advertised as being capable of they are just speculation. They will be interesting however when they hit the market.

You quoted what I wrote about the 580EX, but I'm taking your comment to be directed toward the RadioPoppers.

They have been shipping their original version (I don't remember the name) for a good while with great reviews.

Speculation

ziggy53 · January 11, 2009

Just to "throw another fly into the ointment" (no I don't really know what that means):

The Sigma EF-530 DG Super E-TTL (and EF-500 DG Super) have similar capabilities to the Canon 580EX (II) in that they can act as either master or slave with E-TTL II capabilities and can be mixed with the Canon flashes with limited compatibility.

I have used 2 of the EF-500 DG Super flashes in master and slave configuration and they work rather well together.

There are some differences as opposed to the Canon flashes in that the Sigma uses Groups named 1, 2, 3 versus Groups A, B, C on the Canon flashes. Group 1 is the same signal as Group A however.

The Sigma units also have a simple optical slave mode that I don't believe the Canon units have.

The Canon flashes are easier to use and a more durable build, but the Sigmas are a remarkable value and I don't find them hard to use at all.

pathfinder · January 11, 2009

One thing I missed is that the 580ex II, when used off camera will work in an auto flash mode, like the old Vivitar 283 auto flash, where there is a light meter on the flash that does not communicate with the camera, but does quench the flash tube after the scene is properly illuminated.

This feature might be very nice for lighting a room with barebulb style flash, and I believe it will work this way with PWs too.

Anybody tried this mode with a 580ex II?

gryphonslair99 · January 11, 2009

rwells wrote:

You quoted what I wrote about the 580EX, but I'm taking your comment to be directed toward the RadioPoppers.

???

They have been shipping their original version (I don't remember the name) for a good while with great reviews.

Speculation

Actually I was quoting what I said when the original RadioPoppers were first being discussed ages ago. Sorry, don't see your comment about the 580EX unless it is in one of the links you posted. Didn't go to them.

FYI another good tutorial on Canon EOS flash.
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

jogle · January 12, 2009

I really like the ratio control on the ste2, being able to set up lights on either side and using the A-B groups, you can easily turn the ratio stronger to one side when the model turns one way, and flick it back to the other side when they face the other. Can't do that with pocket wizards.

zack75144 · January 12, 2009

Awesome Thread!
I'm so glad I found this thread. The topic discussed addresses the exact question I am now faced with: STE2 with my 430EX or what else??

I'm leaning STE2 for my needs.

Thanks everyone!

Qarik · January 12, 2009

I was lloking into the poppers..waiting fo rth JrX. Look great. I wonder if you can pre-order?

cmason · January 12, 2009

Qarik wrote:

I was lloking into the poppers..waiting fo rth JrX. Look great. I wonder if you can pre-order?

Wow the pricing on the JrX is great! Looks like an alternative to the STE2

Nikolai · January 12, 2009

My late 2 cents...

In my book STE-2 and PWs are two totally different beasts.

The primary advantage of STE-2 for me is a cordless possiblity to trigger my 580EXII (which I can also do with PW) *while* maintaining full ETTL functionality. I only recently became the owner of this device (couldn't pass up a recent $165 deal) and I can see that I will be using my 580 more with it should I do a certain type of events (parties, red carpet, behind the scene, etc.)

PWs are *absolutely* indispensable in a studio scenario, and especially on location. I triggered my lights from as far as 300ft without a single misfire.

The newcomer, RadioPopper, and so called "ebay triggers", should provide a cheaper alternative to PW/STE2, but thus far there is not enough published on hand experience to strongly recommend any of these solutions (except when the budget is really thin and has zero chances to gain any fat in the forseeable future).

firedancing4life · February 10, 2009

Hey everyone....I'm probably a bit late for this....I've got a couple questions regarding the poppers and ST-E2.

If you use the ST-E2, you don't get an on camera flash correct? because your hot shoe is taken?

I'm trying to get some gear set up for shooting weddings. I've been reading this website called Strobist. I was mainly looking into portable off camera lighting options. I have a 580EX with a Gary Fong (Cloud) and I was considering getting one more flash for my back up body. Just reading around on the strobist....seems like I might want an off camera as well. Any thoughts on what I should invest in? What would be the most versatile? Sounds like people really love the radio triggers...ie. Radio Poppers and Pocket Wizards.

Scott_Quier · February 10, 2009

firedancing4life wrote:

Hey everyone....I'm probably a bit late for this....I've got a couple questions regarding the poppers and ST-E2.

If you use the ST-E2, you don't get an on camera flash correct? because your hot shoe is taken?

I'm trying to get some gear set up for shooting weddings. I've been reading this website called Strobist. I was mainly looking into portable off camera lighting options. I have a 580EX with a Gary Fong (Cloud) and I was considering getting one more flash for my back up body. Just reading around on the strobist....seems like I might want an off camera as well. Any thoughts on what I should invest in? What would be the most versatile? Sounds like people really love the radio triggers...ie. Radio Poppers and Pocket Wizards.

First question - Yes, your ST-E2 takes up the hotshoe on your camera.

An idea for a very portable lighting technique - check out Jeffreaux's Light on a Stick.

catspaw · February 12, 2009

ziggy53 wrote:

Nikon does indeed build in a "Commander Mode" into their better cameras. This allows the camera to act as master for remote flashes. It is a very valuable feature and yes, I do wish Canon would consider something similar. There may be patent issues that prevent it however.

Do you have a link to another more Nikon oriented discussion, Ziggy? I've Nikons (obviously) and a SB-900 that I've considered moving to the light on a stick method. However, the triggering possibilities befuddle me right now. I know there's a lot of advancements made in both the SB-900 and D3 (not as such about the D300) and certainly the LAST thing I need to do right now is buy more than I need. Oh, I could wait until Nik's Posing the Light workshop to figure this out but I like to educate myself ahread of time

(and yes, the Nikon dvds on lighting are on their way, I'm sure that'll help, at least some).

ziggy53 · February 12, 2009

catspaw wrote:

Do you have a link to another more Nikon oriented discussion, Ziggy? I've Nikons (obviously) and a SB-900 that I've considered moving to the light on a stick method. However, the triggering possibilities befuddle me right now. I know there's a lot of advancements made in both the SB-900 and D3 (not as such about the D300) and certainly the LAST thing I need to do right now is buy more than I need. Oh, I could wait until Nik's Posing the Light workshop to figure this out but I like to educate myself ahread of time (and yes, the Nikon dvds on lighting are on their way, I'm sure that'll help, at least some).

If you're looking for a mini tutorial on setting up the Commander Mode of a Nikon camera I think the following link should provide some good information (even though it is oriented around the Nikon D200/D300):

http://www.momentcorp.com/review/nikon_d200commander.html

... and then look at the dropdown menu of that page to see how to setup the flash as well.

catspaw · February 12, 2009

ziggy53 wrote:

If you're looking for a mini tutorial on setting up the Commander Mode of a Nikon camera I think the following link should provide some good information (even though it is oriented around the Nikon D200/D300):

http://www.momentcorp.com/review/nikon_d200commander.html

... and then look at the dropdown menu of that page to see how to setup the flash as well.

*kiss* thank you!

PocketWizards vs STE2

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