HSBB with flash

MJRPHOTO · January 12, 2009

Just starting to set up a remote flash setup. These are my first try with the flash.
I only used one flash set up off camera on a light stand set about 10' high and at the corner of the court.
I have (1) SB-800 AND (2) SB-900 and pocket wizards to set them off remotely. I am looking for C&C on these and advice on where to set up the third flash.

Nikon D3
Nikon 70-200 VR f2.8
Shot at f2.8
SS 1/250
ISO 2000
Flash set on manual at 1/8 power, zoom setting to 24mm

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Here is a shot I got last week without a flash.
D3
Nikon 85mm f1.4
shot at f1.4
SS 1/640
ISO 4000

jonh68 · January 12, 2009

I think I like this set up. You avoided having multiple shadows. Nice shots!

johng · January 12, 2009

Looks like a pretty good setup. The one thing I notice though is the images are a bit washed out - i.e. your darks aren't dark. I wish I could provide advice on how to fix this with the lighting setup but I don't strobe. You can fix it in PP by adjusting levels. I'm sure there's a way to fix it with lighting/exposure. Hopefully someone with better strobe experience than i have can offer some suggestions. But definitely looks like you're on the right track!

rwells · January 12, 2009

MJRPHOTO wrote:

Just starting to set up a remote flash setup. These are my first try with the flash.
I only used one flash set up off camera on a light stand set about 10' high and at the corner of the court.
I have (1) SB-800 AND (2) SB-900 and pocket wizards to set them off remotely. I am looking for C&C on these and advice on where to set up the third flash.

Nikon D3
Nikon 70-200 VR f2.8
Shot at f2.8
SS 1/250
ISO 2000
Flash set on manual at 1/8 power, zoom setting to 24mm

1.

2.

Here is a shot I got last week without a flash.
D3
Nikon 85mm f1.4
shot at f1.4
SS 1/640
ISO 4000

Guess I'm confused about your wording. You stated that you used one flash off camera, then request info of where to place the third light. Sounds like one's missing in there, somewhere.

Here's the issues I have with using manual power on a flash. If you are using the light as a direct light source, as you are, you will have a fairly restricted area of correct exposure. Do you want the exposure to be "correct" under the basket? If so, then anything further out will be underexposed. Do you want the top of the key to be correct exposure, or in your shooting case, half court looks correct to me.

You could of course change aperture as needed if your speedy Gonzales, or if you just like making life difficult.

If you bounce light off the ceiling or back wall, problem solved!

But, if you insist on direct lighting, you can greatly minimize this effect if you feather your light. Aim it up more. EX: From the corner of the court like your light is, aim it at the far, opposite ceiling corner. This will feather the light, therefore you won't see such a drastic light fall-off, meaning; it gives you more distance latitude of correct (or close to it) exposure. You will then need to increase flash output to compensate for this.

Special Note: I would discourage the use of a light stand. Too many people not paying attention to where they are going. Kids, parents, wildabeast... Use Superclamps or the like. Anything to keep them off the floor. Liability, liability, liability...

Now, if you want more than one light, you start running into issues.

Those being, but not limited to:

1) Unwelcome shadows all over the players. If you place lights on either side of the court (same end) you'll get really distracting shadows almost all the time. To counter this, you can use a third flash on-camera to lighten up those shadows. You will also need to feather this flash, or, my preference is to bounce this one off the back wall. Matter of fact, I prefer to bounce flash off the back wall when possible, if not, then definitely the ceiling.

2) Your flash units are now all spread out. If you need to change the power of one (or all), you have to hot-foot it over there (usually up top of the bleacher's)

3) Your batteries go out in either your flash, or your pocket wizard. Yep, there you go again, up and down those bleachers

4) All the ruckus in the stands shakes your PW cord loose. Or your flash. (Feel the burn baby...Hey, at least you'll be getting some great exercise running the bleachers)

5) If your paid to shoot one team, that means at half-time, guess who gets to tear down those flash's, (there you go, up and down those bleachers again

), then reposition them on the other end?

6) I can't remember the rest, but I'll assure you, you'll find out what they are.

All in all, I found that an on-camera flash bounced off the back wall or ceiling will produce a good image. Especially, when it reduces the above issues.

You most likely will want to do many, many experiments until you find the look that pleases you.

BTDT...

As to Johng's notice of the blacks washing out: That's due to overexposure & some ghosting. It's hard for my old eyes to tell at these small picture sizes.

From the previous image and exposure data that you posted, it looks like your only shooting - 1 stop under ambient, with the flash. That's a sure recipe for some ghosting.

Hope that helps...

MJRPHOTO · January 12, 2009

Randy,
Thanks for your reply.
In these photos I was only using the one flash. My question about the third flash position was assuming the second flash would be on the other corner of the court. I agree with and understand the lighting problems with the multiple flash setup. This gym does not lend itself to off the wall or bounce off the ceiling at all. On one end of the court there is only about 2' max from the baseline to the wall. The other end of the court is the same for a 10' width centered on the basket and then goes to 5' to each of the other corners of the court. On this end of the court they have the dividing curtain stacked up and tucked up to the ceiling which stops all ceiling bounced flash from working. My only choice was to try to light up the court evenly with the (2) flash units and possible use the third flash to do the basket area. One of the coaches at this school will not let us use a direct flash on camera.

I totally agree with the stand comment and have already purchased the super claps this weekend.

I will feather the flash the next game at this gym and let you know how they come out.

About the running around. I agree with all you said. I will get some photos of the gym and post them after I do another game there.

Thanks for the help.

JohnG and Jonh68,
Thanks for the comments

donek · January 12, 2009

I think Randy makes the situation sound worse than it is. Moving flashes at half time takes me about 3 minutes. I use lead Acid batteries for my flashes, so running out of power isn't an issue there. I have Cactus V2s triggers. The documentation indicates the batteries will last about a year. I've had mine at least 6 months and have not had to replace the batteries yet. I suppose the one game that I do loose a battery will be a problem, but it's not every night. Feathering the light is key as is getting the flashes as high as possible. Too low and the shadows are more pronounced. I will admit that I'm having some ghosting issues, but they seem invisible in newsprint. I'm working on that one though. You won't walk into your first game and get it right for sure. It does take a little practice, but after about 5 games, I'm getting pretty confident with what I'm doing.

MJRPHOTO · January 15, 2009

I got a chance to get to this gym with the (2) flash setup and test some setups out.
The Equipment:
Nikon D3 set at ISO 2000, SS 1/250
Nikon 70-200 VR f2.8 set at f2.8
(3) Pocket Wizards
(2) SB-900 set at M 1/4 +.7, 17mm, set 10' high and bounced of the ceiling. These were set just behind the basket and at each corner of the court.

Here is one from the foul line:

Here is one below the basket:

Here is one shot across court:

Here is another shot across court but the ISO changed to 1600:

Here is one from the top of the circle:

Another from the foul line:

Below the basket:

I will be setting up this way for the next game and see what happens.

tjk60 · January 15, 2009

There is some ghosting in these shots that you may be able to avoid. Try reading this:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2007/03/q-speedlighting-gym.html

One of the problems of having a high ISO camera AND shooting with strobes is that the difference between ambient and flash power is not enough to freeze the action. I've found that you need at least 2.5 stops difference for the flash or strobes to make a difference. Many pros will tell you that you need 5 stops. I haven't noticed that in my 'experiments'

If you are bouncing off the ceiling, set your flash to zoom at 50mm or more to concentrate more light. @ 17mm you are not really getting any bounce effect.

I haven't yet shot basketball with my D700, but I have done wrestling. Here is an example with 4 SB800s off camera, in gangs of 2, zoomed to 50 and 70mm, 1/4 power, mounted on Brewer Brackets and bounced off of a white ceiling...

HSBB with flash

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