If you had a choice...

divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
edited January 22, 2009 in Accessories
Which of these combos would you prefer for general use? Other options (like the 50mm 1.4 or 580ex/exII) aren't possible, and you'd have to prise the Tammy and ste2 out of my cold dead hands at the moment so selling those for something else isn't an option (LOVE. THEM.)

I'm not actually "unhappy" with my current setup, but manual flash and/or 2 flashes would definitely be an interesting move forward.

All w/xsi, an ste2 transmitter, and longer lenses to complement the setup:

1. Tamron 17-50, 50mm 1.8, 420ex flash (existing setup)
2. Tamron 17-50, 50mm 1.8, 430ex flash (sell the 420)
3. Tamron 17-50, 420ex flash, 430ex flash (sell the 50 1.8)

I'm still finding my style and main type of photography, so I can't really say what I "do" yet - for the moment, I guess it's family pix and "fun stuff" (thank you dgrin challenges lol) with a slow but steady move towards more serious portrait shooting.

Thoughts? I'm really just thinking out loud as I may have the option to do some swapping around, and wondered what y'all think. Thanks!
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Comments

  • Scott_QuierScott_Quier Registered Users Posts: 6,524 Major grins
    edited January 17, 2009
    Since you already have the ST-E2 and the 420EX, I think I would go with option #3. This would, I think, offer you the greatest flexibilty though I'm not sure how this would work if you wanted to set the power of each flash manually - I just don't know enough about either the 420 or the 430.
    Scott
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  • Manfr3dManfr3d Registered Users Posts: 2,008 Major grins
    edited January 17, 2009
    I'd pick #1 and save up for a 430EX. Of course which one you pick depends entirely on your shooting style.
    “To consult the rules of composition before making a picture is a little like consulting the law of gravitation before going for a walk.”
    ― Edward Weston
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited January 17, 2009
    Scott_Quier wrote:
    Since you already have the ST-E2 and the 420EX, I think I would go with option #3. This would, I think, offer you the greatest flexibilty though I'm not sure how this would work if you wanted to set the power of each flash manually - I just don't know enough about either the 420 or the 430.

    Actually that's a good point - I hadn't thought about how I"d set one manual and one not... headscratch.gif

    It may all be a moot point anyway - I may have found a really cheap 430, but not sure yet; we'll see. But I'm just trying to figure out which would be the best thing to sell to pay for it if I do go for it :D

    Tx!
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  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited January 17, 2009
    Manfr3d wrote:
    I'd pick #1 and save up for a 430EX. Of course which one you pick depends entirely on your shooting style.

    Actually, if I do that, I save up for a 580ex :D

    The thing with the 50 is that I'm finding since I got the Tamron I haven't touched it. Yes, the extra stop to 1.8 is nice, but the Tamron has SUCH better AF that I'm turning to it almost 100% of the time at 50mm instead of the 1.8. Which is kind of what got me thinking (always dangerous!)

    Danke sehr!!
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  • RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,962 moderator
    edited January 17, 2009
    I think I would sit tight for now and save up for either a 580 EX (II) or if you are more patient, a better telephoto than you have listed in your profile. Any of the Canon 70-200 L variants will do wonders. Just my .02 €.
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  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,131 moderator
    edited January 17, 2009
    I believe one difference between the 420EX and the 430EX/EXII is that the latter supports E-TTL II. This means 2 things on your crop 1.6x system:

    1) The flash system will calculate flash output using distance information supplied by the lens, if the lens supplies distance information. This amounts to more accurate flash exposures.

    2) The flash will "understand" a crop camera and actuate the zoom of the flash to accommodate the narrower FOV required by the crop format and that can give you both increased range and more economical battery use.

    If these things are important to you then your option 2 might be nice.

    BTW, the Sigma EF-530 DG Super flash for Canon with E-TTL II is similarly priced to the Canon 430EX but has power and feature-set more like the 580EX. I use Sigma flashes and they work fine for me.

    http://sigma4less.com/sigma-ef-530-dg-super-e-ttl-shoe-mount-flash-for-canon-eos-with-e-ttl-ii-operation.html
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited January 17, 2009
    ziggy53 wrote:
    I believe one difference between the 420EX and the 430EX/EXII is that the latter supports E-TTL II. This means 2 things on your crop 1.6x system:

    1) The flash system will calculate flash output using distance information supplied by the lens, if the lens supplies distance information. This amounts to more accurate flash exposures.

    2) The flash will "understand" a crop camera and actuate the zoom of the flash to accommodate the narrower FOV required by the crop format and that can give you both increased range and more economical battery use.

    If these things are important to you then your option 2 might be nice.

    BTW, the Sigma EF-530 DG Super flash for Canon with E-TTL II is similarly priced to the Canon 430EX but has power and feature-set more like the 580EX. I use Sigma flashes and they work fine for me.

    http://sigma4less.com/sigma-ef-530-dg-super-e-ttl-shoe-mount-flash-for-canon-eos-with-e-ttl-ii-operation.html

    Thanks, Ziggy. I didn't realise the 420 was ettl rather than ettlII - my misunderstanding, so I'm glad you pointed that out. I'll need to sit tight on this possible purchase before I decide, anyway; if the price is right on this opoprtunity, seems like it might be worth considering - if not, no harm no foul!

    As a point of interest, do you know if the Sigmas can work with the STE2?

    And Richard, a faster long lens is my long-term project - I'd love the Sigma 2.8 (wish I had the money for the one in the fleamarket right now!), or one of the cheaper L series. But for now, I'll be managing with the two tele's I have in hand. The 70-210 is kind of an interesting lens, actually - it's not as sharp on digital as it was with my film camera and it's certianly not L quality, but it's got very pretty bokeh and in good light captures some very pretty "sparkle" - give it a sunny day and it can produce some very nice pictures :)

    Thanks all!
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  • jeffreaux2jeffreaux2 Registered Users Posts: 4,762 Major grins
    edited January 17, 2009
    I picked up a used 580EX...(not EXII)....awhile back....here in the used gear section for $250. I was specifically looking for the EX and already had an EXII.

    The 580EX can act as master for your current flash. It also has a toggle switch for normal, master, and slave functions that are buried menu items for the EXII. This allows the EX to be shoe mounted and remote fire another flash, but it can VERY quickly be set to act as shoe mounted flash without firing the second speedlight. In this set up....the off camera flash is used as key and the shoe mount for fill.

    I think the 580 offers more flexibility and would be worth the wait to either find a used one in your price range or save up for a new one.
    Thanks,
    Jeff
    -Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
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  • ziggy53ziggy53 Super Moderators Posts: 24,131 moderator
    edited January 17, 2009
    divamum wrote:
    ...

    As a point of interest, do you know if the Sigmas can work with the STE2?

    ...

    I don't have the Canon ST-E2 so I don't know for sure but the Sigma Super flashes with E-TTL II can work as either master or slave along with a Canon E-TTL II EX series flash and they both use compatible channels and groups except for a different naming convention. In other words I do think it would work.
    ziggy53
    Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited January 17, 2009
    As usual, thanks for all the good input! Much appreciated. Basically, this all came about because I stuck my head in at our local Circuit City today to see what the current state of play is as they start the liquidation process (answer= terrible: only 10% off OR the weekly advertised price, whichever is lower - iow, business as usual until the next round or two of markdowns) - I won't be ponying up for the display model I saw at the current price, but I wanted to see what thoughts were in the event that it drops far enough for it to be a bargain. Just doing my research!!! No 580exIIs alas (that's actually what I was looking for, just in case :D)

    Y'all are the best- thanks for all the experienced food for thought iloveyou.gif
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  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2009
    And indeed... turned out to be redundant - went back today to see if they'd dropped prices yet (answer: no), but somebody had obviously paid the full whack and they'd sold them both. No worries!

    What I HAVE learned through this, however, is that the 430ex(II) is a pretty nifty flash and would probably serve my needs well as an interim upgrade to a future 580ex(II) (or as a companion to a future 580ex(II) so if I ever see one at a great price, it's probably worth snapping it up and selling the 420ex. Don't get me wrong, the 420 is an excellent flash and it's certainly no hardship to continue working with it, but looking ahead, I'm getting to a point where having fully manual control would be a goodness .... :D

    Thanks again for the feedback!
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  • jeffreaux2jeffreaux2 Registered Users Posts: 4,762 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2009
    divamum wrote:
    What I HAVE learned through this, however, is that the 430ex(II) is a pretty nifty flash and would probably serve my needs well as an interim upgrade to a future 580ex(II) (or as a companion to a future 580ex(II) so if I ever see one at a great price, it's probably worth snapping it up and selling the 420ex.
    Thanks again for the feedback!

    I thought the same thing when I was initially looking for a flash but....

    If you think you would ever want to use a flash in the shoe....for fill and to fire a second off camera flash remotely....you would undoubtedly want the off camera flash to be the key light. If you have a 580 and 430, the off camera flash would HAVE to be the weaker of the two....and there could be situations where the key light having less power capability than the fill light might pose problems. If I can find the article that spelled this out I will put up a link. It was convincing.
    Thanks,
    Jeff
    -Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
    -My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2009
    jeffreaux2 wrote:
    I thought the same thing when I was initially looking for a flash but....

    If you think you would ever want to use a flash in the shoe....for fill and to fire a second off camera flash remotely....you would undoubtedly want the off camera flash to be the key light. If you have a 580 and 430, the off camera flash would HAVE to be the weaker of the two....and there could be situations where the key light having less power capability than the fill light might pose problems. If I can find the article that spelled this out I will put up a link. It was convincing.

    I guess I was thinking that with an ste2 to trigger (eventually) two flashes, I wouldn't need to worry about running one on camera as a master, but now that you mention it, I see the point.... headscratch.gif

    For sure would love to read that article if you happen to find it - thanks! thumb.gif
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  • jeffreaux2jeffreaux2 Registered Users Posts: 4,762 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2009
    divamum wrote:
    I guess I was thinking that with an ste2 to trigger (eventually) two flashes, I wouldn't need to worry about running one on camera as a master, but now that you mention it, I see the point.... headscratch.gif

    For sure would love to read that article if you happen to find it - thanks! thumb.gif

    It is worth it....at the price of gear these days....to at least consider all of the possibilities and methods you may subject the equipment to...

    I used that set up.....one in the shoe....and one 45 degrees to the kids at camera left on this shot....

    382071748_H7mff-L-1.jpg
    Thanks,
    Jeff
    -Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
    -My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
  • jeffreaux2jeffreaux2 Registered Users Posts: 4,762 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2009
    Found it....

    http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/
    Thanks,
    Jeff
    -Need help with Dgrin?; Wedding Photography Resources
    -My Website - Blog - Tips for Senior Portraiture
  • divamumdivamum Registered Users Posts: 9,021 Major grins
    edited January 20, 2009
    jeffreaux2 wrote:
    Found it....

    http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/

    Thanks Jeff! thumb.gif Great info which I'm sure I'll refer to when it comes time to move up the flash ladder!
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  • NeilLNeilL Registered Users Posts: 4,201 Major grins
    edited January 22, 2009
    jeffreaux2 wrote:
    It is worth it....at the price of gear these days....to at least consider all of the possibilities and methods you may subject the equipment to...

    I used that set up.....one in the shoe....and one 45 degrees to the kids at camera left on this shot....

    382071748_H7mff-L-1.jpg



    ooohh!! Jeff, that's a very charismatic shot clap.gif

    and thanks for the link. some nice reading to do, yum!

    Neil
    "Snow. Ice. Slow!" "Half-winter. Half-moon. Half-asleep!"

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