Help! 5th grade basketball photos!!!

nicki2414 · January 19, 2009

Ok so I have been using my canon xti for awhile now. I always get good shots and have been shooting weddings and softball for awhile now with no problem.

That said.... I used a ef 28-80mm canon lens
iso at 1600
i shot in av mode, with no flash and set the fstop as low as I could (3.5...) and I adjusted the white balance to tungsten. (Oh I am not allowed to use flash in the league that my brother plays in.)

I thought I was ready to go but the pictures came out horrible. They had sooo much noice, way more than I have ever got before and a lot of motion blur, which I have also never got in my softball photos, or at least not to the extent I did here.)

Please, any suggestion at all would be great. Im at a loss and I really want to get some good photos as a lot of the parents are asking to see the pictures and I hate to show them these because they are way worse than the usual quality that I produce.

I also don't have the extra money to spend on a faster lens, which I know would help a lot. So what can I do to take basketball pictures with what I have now?

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3208498039/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 655_filtered by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3476/3208498039_324c77a447_b.jpg" width="618" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 655_filtered" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3209343938/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 800 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3105/3209343938_8e8db11df5_b.jpg" width="684" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 800" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3208497713/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 729 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3129/3208497713_05af7710d4_b.jpg" width="516" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 729" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3209343482/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 725 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3484/3209343482_42485983eb_b.jpg" width="833" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 725" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3209343132/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 724 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3338/3209343132_4bf5d76e0c_b.jpg" width="677" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 724" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3209342884/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 721 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3116/3209342884_e84280edc6_b.jpg" width="756" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 721" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3208496669/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 690 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3097/3208496669_53e899a803_b.jpg" width="684" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 690" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3208496521/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 684 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3472/3208496521_2b76906251_b.jpg" width="526" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 684" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3208496303/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 658 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3407/3208496303_835fc31052_b.jpg" width="593" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 658" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3209342216/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 489 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3461/3209342216_266e604368_b.jpg" width="1024" height="682" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 489" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3208495715/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 430 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3427/3208495715_eac74464df_b.jpg" width="683" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 430" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3209341022/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 132 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3099/3209341022_029233d144_b.jpg" width="932" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 132" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3208495135/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 208 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3361/3208495135_aa2fc6b492_b.jpg" width="624" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 208" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3209341602/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 363 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3461/3209341602_122b009ff7_b.jpg" width="683" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 363" /></a>

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<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/34201721@N06/3208494839/" title="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 131 by nicki2414, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3505/3208494839_43572442eb_b.jpg" width="857" height="1024" alt="Basketball Mathews vs. Newton Falls 131" /></a>

These are probably some of the best and they are not very good at all. There were two huge windows that were horrible, but it was the only place I could shoot from on the court. The other baseline was really small and the refs wouldn't let me go there. So it was the stands or where I was.

Also, I had to do a lot of color adjustments in post as well as major noise reduction. I have been messing with white balance and such all weekend and can't seem to get it right. I did some test prints today and they weren't very good either.

The color still seem off to me, but I am use to being able to use my flash.

C and C needed!!! help!!!!

sportsshooter06 · January 19, 2009

set your wb to flourescent, most gyms use daylight colored flourescent.

this should help your wb, your shutter speed was 2 low?

wmstumme · January 19, 2009

Nikki:
Let me start off by saying there are numerous other folks on DGrin who do sooooo much better than I with indoor BB. Nevertheless, here are some thoughts:
1) Looks like you have a combination of lighting--as I think I see some big windows. I've been to some gyms like that too. If you can, just before the game, pick an area of the court you are going to focus on (say near the basket under one end) and try and set a custom WB setting for there. I send my kid or wife out to hold a white card in the middle of the spot I think I'm going to have the most action at and set if from there. Then just wait for the action to come to you. Yeah, you'll miss stuff at other spots, but you probably won't get it anyway.
2) Looks like your getting your focus to lock on the background in many of the shots. Do you have a single focus point selected? I know that in lower light my camera seems to take much longer to focus. Also, if you shoot a quick series of shots, if the first shot is OOF, it never gets any better. That's a large reason why I almost always shoot single frames, rather than "spray and pray." I realize I may be missing a lot that way too...
3) Does the XTI have a custom function letting you go to ISO 3200? You'll have even more noise, but the compromise may help for stopping blur.
4) I know you said you don't have $$ for a lens--but you might want to think about the 50mm f1.8 I haven't priced it lately, but I bet you can still find one for around $100. It isn't that far off the range you're currently shooting with the zoom, but a much faster lens.
Good luck. I also can't wait to get back outdoors...

KMCC · January 19, 2009

Shooting indoor sports (and certainly night sports) with anything less than an f/2.8 lens can be frustrating. It's just very difficult for a slower lens to gather enough light to freeze action. In Av mode set at f/3.5, the camera is simply going to have to select a slower shutter speed in order to get enough light - resulting in blurring of the action.

For what it's worth, my typical basketball set up is: Manual (M) mode, f/2.8, 1/400 shutter speed (in very dark gyms - 1/320), ISO 3200, burst mode, and AI Servo. (A couple of my recent shots using these settings and no flash can be found elsewhere in this forum.)

Anytime you shoot at the higher ISO settings, you're going to experience noise. I use both Noise Ninja and Noiseware Standard to process out the noise before I do any other post-processing of my shots.

I hope this helps and keep shooting.

wmstumme · January 19, 2009

Anytime you shoot at the higher ISO settings, you're going to experience noise. I use both Noise Ninja and Noiseware Standard to process out the noise before I do any other post-processing of my shots.

Is the order of processing important? I've been doing the noise reduction as my last step in PP. Should that go first? I don't know why I do it in that order, I've just slipped into that habit and haven't experimented.

KMCC · January 19, 2009

wmstumme wrote:

Is the order of processing important? I've been doing the noise reduction as my last step in PP. Should that go first? I don't know why I do it in that order, I've just slipped into that habit and haven't experimented.

I've never done any tests to see what the differences would be, but the makers of either Noiseware or Noise Ninja (can't remember which - maybe both); as well as a couple of other sources I've read in the past, recommend doing the noise reduction prior to any other post processing.

It might just be another urban myth, but I've always followed that recommendation.

waygard33 · January 19, 2009

Hi Nicki,

I too wrestle with kids basketball. So far, the best bang for the buck that I have found is the 50mm f1.8 lens. I got it for $82 on Amazon.

You have to be right near the action but if you can get there, it's really helped me a lot.

I have a Canon XSi. In most gyms I have to shoot at 1600 ISO and just get by with 1/320 shutter speed.

This past weekend, I was in a much better lit gym and was actually able to drop to 800 ISO and shoot at 1/400 and 1/500. I doubt this will happen again.

I'm not sure how the XTi and XSi compare as far as noise but I have read on this board that if you get the exposure pretty close, it is less noticeable after pp.

Here's a couple I took on Saturday with that lens:

This is from 1/2 court. Did a pretty big crop on this one.

This one was from under the basket.

There's no noise reduction in these. I'm just a beginner at pp and haven't really gotten to that yet.

Here's a link from last weekend where all the shots were at 1600 as the gym was a bit darker. Again, the shots could be better with someone better at pp.
http://waygard33.smugmug.com/gallery/7075039_GTS9g/1/454874275_zon8Y

Hope this helps. Again, it was the $82 50mm that made the difference for me. Down the road I hope to get one of those really nice lenses but for now, this is great.

Good luck,
Wayne in Oregon

Mitchell · January 20, 2009

#9 is good. The motion blur works well on that shot.

The rest are too blurry to be of any use. Your shutterspeed was just too slow.

Welcome to the world of poorly lit gyms. This can be impossible without good equipment. Your lens is too slow and your only option on your body is to increase the ISO which will increase your noise.

Good thoughts here on a cheap 50mm, f1.8 lens. I don't own this lens, but it may be an option for your if it can focus fast enough.

nicki2414 · January 20, 2009

i really do like 9 also.

thats for the tips.

i think i might be investing in the 50mm....

I have been looking at it but dont know if i wanted to shell out the dough, but looks like it might have too...

My shutter speeds stayed consistantly at 1/320 to 1/500. I also did shoot with only center focus point, but could have possibly not have got it on the subject. I will have to slow down the burst shots and try to shoot single shots.

I will also try the custom white balance and see how that comes out.

any other suggestions?

so do you think if I take pictures again before I get the lens I should raise the shutter speed and not worry about the fstop? or just go into manual and lower fstop and raise shutter speed?

thanks again everyone!

nicki2414 · January 20, 2009

i also processed these using noiceware standard before doing anything else. Should I run it through two noise programs? Would that really help or would you get too plastic.

Also, what settings do you use in noiseware? I also was trying to figure that out and finally just used the basic setting it starts you out in.

I just got this software for these photos so Im still new to it also and can't seem to find any help in the manual for it.

Thanks again
Nicki

KMCC · January 20, 2009

nicki2414 wrote:

i also processed these using noiceware standard before doing anything else. Should I run it through two noise programs? Would that really help or would you get too plastic.

Also, what settings do you use in noiseware? I also was trying to figure that out and finally just used the basic setting it starts you out in.

I just got this software for these photos so Im still new to it also and can't seem to find any help in the manual for it.

Thanks again
Nicki

Only process each file once for noise.

I use the weak noise setting when using Noiseware Standard, but you may need to run some tests to determine what works best for you.

jrblixt · February 11, 2009

Also just curious if your lens is a constant 3.5? If not you're actually not shooting at f3.5 at your longer focal lengths.

nicki2414 · February 11, 2009

yah I do understand that. I honestly think it was the windows and a bad angle to shoot from. I have since done a couple more games and have been able to get a lot better photos. Now I do understand that with a faster lens it would be much much easier, but for now this will have to do. Hopefully by next year I will be able to upgrade. Since its now the end of basketball I think im going to be upgrading the tele lens for softball instead lol. A 50mm prime is definatly on my list though.

Its not great, but its not so bad that Im afraid to let people see it and at least there isn't a ton of motion blur. I'm getting better at this basketball thing.:D

sschering · February 13, 2009

I've been fighting the same battle.. Boys Basketball in a Dark gym with florescent lighting. I shoot with a Pentax K100D 1st week I went in a the SMC 18-55 f3.5 kit lens.. I tried running Tv (aperture priority) and 1/350 was as fast as it would go. I was either underexposed or had lots of motion blur. 2nd Week I tried the 28-105 f2.8 sigma.. Slightly better not much of an improvement. Next week I'm just going to try one of the 50mm primes.. I'm thinking the SMC f1.7 FA 50mm. Your shots are looking way better than what I'm getting..

Help! 5th grade basketball photos!!!

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