Problems with keywords on import

rolette

SM seems to be having issues around keywords when uploading new pictures. I'm uploading using the Simple Uploader. The pictures have keywords on them from Lightroom (2.2 in case that matters).

After uploading the pics to SM, I go edit the captions to clean up all the garbage keywords SM insists on generating from the file name <insert yet another request to have some sort of option to disable that particular "feature"...>.

Besides the SM-generated keywords, I'm getting either 0 or 1 of the keywords that are part of the uploaded file.

This is the first big batch of photos I've uploaded since upgrading to LR 2.2 so it's possible the problem is in LR and not in SM.

Thanks,
Jay

rolette

No love on this issue?

Andy

Hi Jay, it's rare that we miss a post - sorry!
Can we have a link to an affected photo?

rolette

I'm pretty sure this was one of them, but since I've already fixed up the keywords on everything I've uploaded, I can't tell 100%.

http://rolette.smugmug.com/photos/464978212_wWQa4-L-1.jpg

If there's nothing amiss with this one, let me know and I'll upload some more pictures and leave the keywords in the state they end up after import and post a link to one of those pictures.

Thanks,
Jay

richW

rolette wrote:

I'm pretty sure this was one of them, but since I've already fixed up the keywords on everything I've uploaded, I can't tell 100%.

http://rolette.smugmug.com/photos/464978212_wWQa4-L-1.jpg

If there's nothing amiss with this one, let me know and I'll upload some more pictures and leave the keywords in the state they end up after import and post a link to one of those pictures.

Thanks,
Jay

I'm seeing only good keywords there.
Could you upload another picture and post the keywords the same way you've have them in Lightroom and we'll take a look for you.

rolette

This may take me a little longer to reproduce for you. I uploaded a single picture this morning and all the keywords from LR were there. Then I uploaded 25 or so pics and it was working fine.

I don't normally upload pictures at 6:30am on Tuesdays, so I'm wondering if the problem is timing/load based... I'll try again tonight more around prime-time and see if the problem shows up. It's been ~90% reproducible when I was uploading pictures on Saturdays.

If it helps, my process is:

* export from LR
* upload to SM using the Simple Uploader
* use Tools to edit multiple caption/keywords as soon as I notice the upload is complete

Jay

jfriend

rolette wrote:

This may take me a little longer to reproduce for you. I uploaded a single picture this morning and all the keywords from LR were there. Then I uploaded 25 or so pics and it was working fine.

I don't normally upload pictures at 6:30am on Tuesdays, so I'm wondering if the problem is timing/load based... I'll try again tonight more around prime-time and see if the problem shows up. It's been ~90% reproducible when I was uploading pictures on Saturdays.

If it helps, my process is:

* export from LR
* upload to SM using the Simple Uploader
* use Tools to edit multiple caption/keywords as soon as I notice the upload is complete

Jay

FYI, I don't know what kind of keywords you normally use, but in case this is part of your problem, Smugmug does not accept all forms of keywords you might use. For example, they sometimes don't accept multi-word keywords from LR and they never accept keywords with mixed alpha-numerics (e.g. "Player8"). The keyword may appear in Smugmug, but it isn't indexed so it is never found. Smugmug has a bunch of it's own rules that are more narrow than what the standard allows in an IPTC keyword field so they don't accept all legal IPTC keywords.

rolette

jfriend wrote:

FYI, I don't know what kind of keywords you normally use, but in case this is part of your problem, Smugmug does not accept all forms of keywords you might use. For example, they sometimes don't accept multi-word keywords from LR and they never accept keywords with mixed alpha-numerics (e.g. "Player8"). The keyword may appear in Smugmug, but it isn't indexed so it is never found. Smugmug has a bunch of it's own rules that are more narrow than what the standard allows in an IPTC keyword field so they don't accept all legal IPTC keywords.

Thanks, John. The keywords I'm using are pretty simple and shouldn't be running into those limits. Mostly names plus tags like "basketball", "thanksgiving", "christmas", etc.

Jay

rolette

Ok, reproduced it again.

I just created a new gallery and uploaded 3 pictures to it. All 3 of the pictures are tagged with the same keywords in LR ("aiden" and "christmas").

The keywords that SM shows for each of the 3 pictures are just the <mumble, mumble> keywords that SM derives from the filename (Christmas-xxxx.jpg).

I haven't edited the keywords in SM at all. They are as-is after the upload. Here's the gallery:

http://rolette.smugmug.com/gallery/7328873_Le5ML/1/471562554_V6GP7

Thanks,
Jay

rolette

rolette wrote:

Ok, reproduced it again.

I just created a new gallery and uploaded 3 pictures to it. All 3 of the pictures are tagged with the same keywords in LR ("aiden" and "christmas").

The keywords that SM shows for each of the 3 pictures are just the <mumble, mumble> keywords that SM derives from the filename (Christmas-xxxx.jpg).

I haven't edited the keywords in SM at all. They are as-is after the upload. Here's the gallery:

http://rolette.smugmug.com/gallery/7328873_Le5ML/1/471562554_V6GP7

bada-bump...

rolette

At this point I've described the bug, reproduced it and provided 3 examples in a gallery, described the steps I'm following along with the tools I'm using and even made a suggestion based on the pattern I'm seeing for when the bug happens.

At a minimum, I'd appreciate an indication about whether you see anything odd in the metadata of the photos.

It's very frustrating to have to rework all of my keywords manually after the uploads (on top of my usual complaint about SM's filename keyword generation that must be edited out).

Jay

rainforest1155

rolette wrote:

Ok, reproduced it again.

I just created a new gallery and uploaded 3 pictures to it. All 3 of the pictures are tagged with the same keywords in LR ("aiden" and "christmas").

The keywords that SM shows for each of the 3 pictures are just the <mumble, mumble> keywords that SM derives from the filename (Christmas-xxxx.jpg).

I haven't edited the keywords in SM at all. They are as-is after the upload. Here's the gallery:

http://rolette.smugmug.com/gallery/7328873_Le5ML/1/471562554_V6GP7

Thanks,
Jay

Jay,

I downloaded the first image in the gallery. That's what I see in Apple Preview:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/474788257_qScmM-L.jpg
There doesn't seem to be any keywords or captions included in the IPTC metadata.
Since we don't modify your originals, I can only imagine that Lightroom did no add them properly.

Sebastian

jfriend

rainforest1155 wrote:

Jay,

I downloaded the first image in the gallery. That's what I see in Apple Preview:
http://photos.smugmug.com/photos/474788257_qScmM-L.jpg
There doesn't seem to be any keywords or captions included in the IPTC metadata.
Since we don't modify your originals, I can only imagine that Lightroom did no add them properly.

Sebastian

Jay, I concur. I downloaded your original http://rolette.smugmug.com/photos/471562554_V6GP7-O-1.jpg, loaded it into Photoshop and see no keywords on the photo in Photoshop.

The one time I know of that Smugmug does touch your original is if you don't have it in sRGB when you upload. Are you sure it was sRGB? And, are you sure that you asked Lightroom to include the metadata when you did the export (there is a setting for minimize metadata which you should NOT have checked).

rolette

jfriend wrote:

Jay, I concur. I downloaded your original http://rolette.smugmug.com/photos/471562554_V6GP7-O-1.jpg, loaded it into Photoshop and see no keywords on the photo in Photoshop.

The one time I know of that Smugmug does touch your original is if you don't have it in sRGB when you upload. Are you sure it was sRGB? And, are you sure that you asked Lightroom to include the metadata when you did the export (there is a setting for minimize metadata which you should NOT have checked).

Thanks Sebastian and John. I always use the same settings when I export from LR, but I'll double check them tonight when I get home. It should be set to export as sRGB and not have the "minimize metadata" option checked, but I'll verify.

I should still have the files I uploaded for that gallery to verify that I'm seeing the same IPTC data before I uploaded.

It's the hit or miss aspect that makes this whole thing goofy... The joys of software

Jay

rolette

Looks like it is a bug in LR2...

First I verified that the photos I linked in this thread didn't include the keywords in the IPTC before I uploaded them. After that I checked my LR export settings to make sure I wasn't doing something silly like checking the option to minimize metadata.

I wasn't completely sure it wasn't pilot error until I found another picture that I exported from LR that had 1 of 2 keywords in it. The earlier examples I gave didn't have any keywords embedded so I didn't have a smoking gun.

Hard to believe this is a general LR bug, but maybe it's something specific to the 64-bit version. I'll start chasing this down with Adobe.

Thanks for the help folks.

Jay

rolette

Yep, bug in LR2 if you updated your catalog from LR1.x.

Apparently there is a per-keyword option that controls whether the keyword should be included when you export the photo. Upgrading from 1.x to LR 2 ends up defaulting all the keywords you created in 1.x to "don't export this keyword".

The "randomness" I was seeing was based on whether I had ever used that keyword prior to LR2.

Here's the tech note from Adobe on the issue which includes a script to fix the catalog:

http://www.adobe.com/go/kb405074

Jay

rainforest1155

Thanks Jay for chasing this down with Adobe! I'm sure your information will be helpful to other Lightroom users.

Sebastian