LCD image vs. reality

catspaw

I'm not certain there is any answer, but that's why I'm coming here. The new baby shoots overexposed. In the LCD review, the photo looks great. However, once imported to the computer it is obviously overexposed with lack of true blacks in the image. I shoot RAW, so that's easy to fix, but I ALSO shoot over 1000 photos a day when I do horse events and shows.

As a result, I shoot RAW+JPG and upload the JPG directly to SmugMug, editing the RAW file for the print requests and replacing it before printing. This means that the photos I upload (too many to manually adjust or even batch adjust on my ancient mac mini) are all overexposed and look, well, lackluster as a result.

Any suggestions? This is the new (to me) Nikon D3. I've poked about in the available features to see if there's a way to adjust this, but it seems anything I change (exposure compensation, etc) will be reflected in the LCD review, so that won't help.

Mostly, I'm puzzled since the D50 shoots 100% to form. What I see is what I get. Easy. Here, what I see is NOT what I get but rather a bit different.

(galleries from this weekend can be found at:
http://www.catspawphotos.com/Events%20@%20Promontory/706386 )

Histogram? yes and no. at least this weekend I was shooting with a mostly light and dark (white walls, darker dirt) background so regardless of general exposure, the histogram would be spot on because of the background, not because of details on the true exposure of the image.

Lenses? not likely since this was a 'practice' weekend, I was there with several different lenses to test out. Mostly used the 85mm f/1.8 and the 70-200mm f/2.8. Same issue with both.

Lightmeter? In this it was actually accurate, but the LCD screen looked too dark. I admit it was a tad on the high side but the meter is certainly not the end all/be all of the game. As well, I played between full frame and spot metering and it seemed to come out the same in both instances although I'd have to test more to be certain of this.

Any avenues to pursue or tricks I have not yet uncovered (not yet done reading that bloody fat manual, but already found a few things I hadn't uncovered yet) would be loved. :lust

swintonphoto

I rarely trust what I see on the camera LCD. I leave my histograms on and check them after shots. This will likely help.
There may be many reasons this happens, but, most likely it is because professional level cameras like the D3 do not produce images out of the camera that are "ready made" like a consumer camera like the D50. Also, it is possible your metering mode was set to spot or center weighted metering. After looking at your images, that seems to be what might be happening.

DsrtVW

There is an adjustment for LCD brightness on my D300 which shares a lot with the D3. I usually just use the LCD for comp. But also have the highlights and histograms on for checking exposure.
LCD brightness is in the setup menu (the wrench) under format card on D300
The histogram will give what is captured on the sensor, if you are overexposed everything will be pushed to the right. then you can use the EV comp to bring it back left.
I went from the D50 to the D300 it was a big learning curve. The D50 is good camera easy to use, the D3 & 300 you have to use more controls to get it right.
The big fat book is good but other books written from Magic lantern or Rocky Nook make it a bit easier

catspaw

swintonphoto wrote:

I rarely trust what I see on the camera LCD. I leave my histograms on and check them after shots. This will likely help.
There may be many reasons this happens, but, most likely it is because professional level cameras like the D3 do not produce images out of the camera that are "ready made" like a consumer camera like the D50. Also, it is possible your metering mode was set to spot or center weighted metering. After looking at your images, that seems to be what might be happening.

see original post re: Histogram and metering. I'm certain the histogram won't help (unless I'm obviously 'off') but the metering... perhaps. However, regardless of metering, I was shooting manual, so that only affects what the lightmeter tells me.

I admit I haven't heard of the D50 doing anything to images to make them 'ready made'. Do you have more information on this? thanks.

Cygnus Studios

Oh yeah, this is a learning curve. The D3 LCD is horrible. The histogram also works differently on the D3. Now for what it is worth, the in camera metering is darn close.
When using a flash, I want my histogram to be at the edge of the third line from left. Normally this would be a blown out image, yet for whatever reason it isn't with the D3.
If you are shooting outside in good to decent light without the aid of a flash, use the in camera metering. Keep your EV at 0.
It will not look right on the LCD but it will save you a ton of time editing.
For shots outside under tougher light, go one stop underexposed according to the in camera meter.

catspaw

Cygnus Studios wrote:

Oh yeah, this is a learning curve. The D3 LCD is horrible. The histogram also works differently on the D3. Now for what it is worth, the in camera metering is darn close.
When using a flash, I want my histogram to be at the edge of the third line from left. Normally this would be a blown out image, yet for whatever reason it isn't with the D3.
If you are shooting outside in good to decent light without the aid of a flash, use the in camera metering. Keep your EV at 0.
It will not look right on the LCD but it will save you a ton of time editing.
For shots outside under tougher light, go one stop underexposed according to the in camera meter.

Thanks!! was hoping to hear from some D3 users on this one, although I didn't put it into the title. I know I tend to shoot 'off' from what the lightmeter says in the D50, so I didn't think much of it this weekend. But the light meter WAS correct, the LCD was off. Glad I had a learning weekend, as these would be dreadfully time consuming to process by hand (since not all are overexposed, a batch process wouldn't save me much) and convert to JPGs for uploading. Oof.

this was a low light indoor arena but with some natural light and some incadescent lighting. Mostly I just needed to stay FAST to keep from blurred action shots. I'd trust it more outside in natural light I think. I had overexposure issues on the D50 in BRIGHT sunlight, so I'm not surprised that you recommend a stop underexposed on the D3 too. Also doesn't help that the colors of horses change, thereby changing the image too.

Learning IS fun, but this curve is definitely an inconsisent one. thanks again!

zoomer

The lighting on your screen is adjustable, adjust it so it matches your properly exposed photos in normal level ambient lighting.
DO NOT judge photos by how they LOOK on the screen.
When shooting fast I use the blinkies and keep my exposure adjusted just to the left of creating any blinkies.
When I have time I also check the histogram and make sure I am in the block just the right of center.
If you have no blinkies and the histogram is in the block to the right of center your photo is a winner.
Adjust your screen as much as possible to match.
The screen in bright sun is useless for judging photo exposure.
TRUST THE HISTOGRAM.

catspaw

zoomer wrote:

The lighting on your screen is adjustable, adjust it so it matches your properly exposed photos in normal level ambient lighting.
DO NOT judge photos by how they LOOK on the screen.
When shooting fast I use the blinkies and keep my exposure adjusted just to the left of creating any blinkies.
When I have time I also check the histogram and make sure I am in the block just the right of center.
If you have no blinkies and the histogram is in the block to the right of center your photo is a winner.
Adjust your screen as much as possible to match.
The screen in bright sun is useless for judging photo exposure.
TRUST THE HISTOGRAM.

Alas, see original post for how trusting the histogram does NOT work. It in fact needs to be a bit LEFT of center on this camera. It was center or right of center and overexposed as a result.

If you look at the photos, you will see that this was all indoor shooting, so the LCD was used in complete 100% shade with no glare or anything else.

Thr *brightness* of the LCD is adjustible, but that doesn't affect the *exposure* it shows. It just has more luminosity (however spelled) as a result. Unless there's another way to adjust it that I haven't come across yet?

thanks though.

Scott_Quier

First - I shoot Canon so what I have to say may not be worth the time it takes to read it, but ...

I never trust the image in the LCD for judging exposure. It's too small for judging focus and the brightness can be altered in the menus such that it bears no relationship to reality. The only thing I've found the LCD to be useful for is for judging composition.

I looked at one of the galleries. If the whites (tape on the horse's legs, etc) aren't 255,255,255 .... then I would say that you have "exposed to the right" very nicely and would be able to apply a single exposure adjustment to the whole lot of them to get them histogram back down where it (might) belong. That would solve the problem for this shoot but would not provide much help in the long term.

catspaw wrote:

Histogram? yes and no. at least this weekend I was shooting with a mostly light and dark (white walls, darker dirt) background so regardless of general exposure, the histogram would be spot on because of the background, not because of details on the true exposure of the image.

Without knowing/seeing what you mean by spot one, there is little that can be done to help here. In general, and you most likely already know this:D, I would expect to see a spike quite close to the right edge of the histogram (the whites) and another about 1 stop off the left edge (the dirt) with not a lot in between - might remind one of a 7-10 split. If that's not what you saw on your camera as you were shooting, then I would say that you might have a problem.

Looking at other galleries, I see your camera light meter got fooled, in many cases, by the backlighting. That's a hard one...:D

catspaw

Scott_Quier wrote:

First - I shoot Canon so what I have to say may not be worth the time it takes to read it, but ...

you at least read my entire post before replying, so that's a huge bonus anything like that is worth the read!

Looking at other galleries, I see your camera light meter got fooled, in many cases, by the backlighting. That's a hard one...:D

thankgod for RAW, right? On some level I wish I could be a 'fine arts' photographer and spend the time to adjust every photo before uploading it, but I'm not. I'm a performance photographer and these numbers are so many as to be unrealistic for individual adjustments. As least not until I get to do this full time and have a week to kill between events. ha! unlikely, I know.

thanks for your reply though -- if anything, confirms some of my suspicions. I've another event in the same venue at the end of this month, so I've time to play around with the camera more in different situations to see what's going on. I might even bring the laptop with me (erm, and an external harddrive) just so I can download images and see what I've got before shooting some more. It's a lunging clinic (horses going around in circles x 100) so bound to be supremely boring with time to kill. hmm. yeah, I WILL bring the laptop and an external harddrive, bulky as it might be to set up and handle. gonna figure this camera's nuances out, dangit!

KED

I'm very curious -- at what point in your "shooting workflow" are you looking at the LCD? I shoot 00's of images at sporting events, and have never had he time or the technical need (but as to the latter, here is why I'm curious) to look at the LCD . . . I feel like I could generally live without it altogether on my camera (1D Mk III) and still shoot as effectively, or pretty much anyway. (I do check the meter in the viewfinder and I do shoot in RAW).

catspaw

KED wrote:

I'm very curious -- at what point in your "shooting workflow" are you looking at the LCD? I shoot 00's of images at sporting events, and have never had he time or the technical need (but as to the latter, here is why I'm curious) to look at the LCD . . . I feel like I could generally live without it altogether on my camera (1D Mk III) and still shoot as effectively, or pretty much anyway. (I do check the meter in the viewfinder and I do shoot in RAW).

Since I got the camera 6 days ago ... pretty much all the time right now I knew I was shooting in difficult circumstances this weekend (low light, action photos, etc) so I was fiddling around with *everything* on the camera as I got used to it as well as to see what settings worked/didn't work, etc etc, getting used to horses going into the sun then back out of it, how many stops to adjust, rinse and repeat. Toss in playing with 4 different lenses for this and you get an idea of why I was looking at the LCD and not trusting the light meter. I tend to shoot 'high' on the D50, so it didn't surprise me that I found myself shooting a tad on the high (overexposed per the light meter) side on the D3. Except that I WAS overexposing everything. Opps.

But yes, generally NOT time to watch the LCD. Mostly I'd get a small segment shot, then review it in the LCD (mostly deleting awkward moments of the horse/rider). Things sure looked solid, so it surprised me to find out I was overexposing everything. sigh!

zoomer

OK I looked at your gallery.
Like Scott said your histogram should show a spike on the right (your background) and another spike left of center (your subject).
If you expose for the background your subject will be dark, if you expose for your subject the background will be to bright.
Unless you can find a spot to shoot from where the background is closer to the color of your subject, that is unavoidable. Unless you can flash the subject (which it appears is not possible).
As I said before TRUST YOUR HISTOGRAM if you think it is lying to you then you may need to read up on how to correctly read the histogram.
I suggest riding your blinkies (as I suggested in my previous mail) right to the edge of blowing out your background, if you shoot in Manual exposure you can set this exposure before the event even starts. Then shoot the event in raw and try a shadows highlight adjustment to take down the background brightness and bring up the lighting on the rider, this can also be done with dodge and burn.

On the other side if you do not care about blowing out the background then shoot spot metering on the rider and just make sure the rider is exposed properly and forget about the background.

If....your histogram does not look like the 7-10 split (on the shots where the background is very bright and the subject much darker) then you do have a problem and you need to send it for repair.