First attempt to shoot indoor Cheerleading

Rocketman766

Here is my first try at taking real photos at my daughters cheer events. I used a Canon Xsi, Canon 70-200 f2.8 USM non IS. All shots done in RAW so I could edit at home. No flash used at any time. Please feel free to tell me what I did wrong and how to fix it. I expect the worst, so lets hear it..I want to learn from this.
1. 200mm focal length, f2.8, 1/320



2. 70mm focal length, f2.8, 1/320


3. 130mm focal, f2.8, 1/320 This one I wanted my daughter (in the middle) to be in focus...why is she not and the girls closer on the sides in focus?


4. 90mm, f2.8, 1/250

sankyler

I would suggest doing a search of "indoor sport" to learn more about issues and techniques with indoor/non-flash/fast-motion focusing.

A lot of good info here

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1019

Cygnus Studios

Looks like you could have gone with a higher ISO. What focus settings were you using? With a lens of this speed it should not be hunting for focus in a lit gym.

Rocketman766

sankyler-thanks for the link, I will be spending countless time in that forum as I do this one...so much to learn..

Cygnus Studios-I may have forgotten to adjust the ISO..I will check the metadata when I get home, I may have left it on 400, maybe 800. I believe I had the AF in servo mode. There were a few people using flashes there, but I didn't for two reasons... 1. The next competition prohibits flashes so I wanted to try without a flash here (not knowing what the lighting will be like at the next venue..) 2. I thought the flash would not have an effect in a wide open space with such high ceilings. If I am wrong, please correct me.

I seriously doubt that I am as fast or faster than that lens, but I felt that there were some times where I was just shooting and would only change the focal length to get close to what I wanted and snap the shot... Its amazing how fast those girls move when I am looking thru a lens.

Qarik

hello, my 1st impression is that it is bit underexposed. My 2nd general impression is that one of composition..I know it must be very tough to capture twirling teenagers..but I would suggest tighter shots on more singular subjects. Or at least crop to that effect. My eyes don't really know where to go in your shots.

Rocketman766

Qarik wrote:

hello, my 1st impression is that it is bit underexposed. My 2nd general impression is that one of composition..I know it must be very tough to capture twirling teenagers..but I would suggest tighter shots on more singular subjects. Or at least crop to that effect. My eyes don't really know where to go in your shots.

Thanks for the input...this is the type of stuff I am looking for. The exposure is really one of the biggest things I have to tackle, I think. I agree with the tighter shots. At the next event, I will work on that. I cropped most of the images that we kept at the house. These were just as they came out of the camera, no cropping or editing, which is very obvious. I think I will work on taking less quantity, more quality shots. Since I know most of the routines for my daughters teams, I know who will be where...and when. I know that doesn't help me if I start doing this for $ in the future ( a LONG way off right now...)

Cygnus Studios

The exif shows you at ISO 1600. Not sure if you can go above this with limited noise or not.
These shots are between 1/320 and 1/250. At 320 you stop the action well, but are definitely underexposed. If you could bump your ISO, and keep the speed up it will help.

I agree with Qarik on the composition. Go wide or tight, the in betweens are kind of hard to keep the eye focused.

Rocketman766

Cygnus Studios wrote:

The exif shows you at ISO 1600. Not sure if you can go above this with limited noise or not.
These shots are between 1/320 and 1/250. At 320 you stop the action well, but are definitely underexposed. If you could bump your ISO, and keep the speed up it will help.

I agree with Qarik on the composition. Go wide or tight, the in betweens are kind of hard to keep the eye focused.

Thanks for the ISO info..(didn't know I could see it thru the link I used to post it...newbie here..) This is where I might be limited by equipment. I believe my highest ISO setting is 1600. Canon Xsi....

This info is great, much better than just hearing my wife (that ones ok...) lol...

20DNoob

Gotta say, given the conditions you've done a great job. As for keeping you daughter in focus, switch to the Center Focus Point and you won't have to worry any longer.

Aside from that if I were you the next thing on my wishlist would be a better program for editing. Download some free trails to see which ones suit your needs. There's heaps of tutorials online to watch to see the work flow so that should help.

I'm a HUGE fan of Lightroom2 just for the fact it's so incredibly easy to use(maybe have your "daughter" buy it and get the educational discount[$100]). As far as I'm concerned the Adjustment Brush is reason alone to get it, and unless your going to be doing some super serious editing it should last you plenty of time.

Edit: Yup, the XSi only goes to 1600

johng

Exposure is the first thing as others have mentioned. Make sure you're using a manual exposure not relying on AV or TV as the uniform colors will throw off the camera's metering.

As for tight vs. wide my suggestion is shoot TIGHT. The very practical reason being you're using wide apertures. It's going to be extremely difficult to get multiple girls in good focus. So I would concentrate on getting individual shots of the competitors.

Switch to portrait orientation. Given the above I would recommend switching to portrait orientation for much of the shots. Shooting landscape results in extraneous imagry on the sides and cuts off your subject at odd places (i.e. lost feet). If you're shooting with 300 or 400mm lenses and can frame tight, landscape works well but given what I see here I think you'll be better served portrait - isolate your subject better and not cut off feet. It's OK to have partial bodies but you want those croppings at strategic places.

sportsshooter06

Cheerleading, I have had the misfortune to shoot chearleading, 3 or 4 times.

Not one of my favorites, Difficult, difficult.

1. I would shoot wider as opposed to tighter. However, if you want shots of your daughter, then a bit tighter, focused directly on her is ok.
2. erractic movements, most of which are vertical, make framing and focusing difficult. that's why wider is better.
3. May i recommend a different lens, depending where you where shooting from. If shooting from the stands, then 70-200 is ok, if shooting closer, like from the floor directly in front of the mats, then wider glass. I am shooting from directly in front of the mats, using 24-70, .
4. Shutter speed, again the movement is erractic and sometimes rather quick, such as tumbling, throwing etc. shutter speed, minimum 1/500 .
5. no need to shoot raw, it will help with WB and light or dark photos, but if it's OOF, nothing can help.
6. Understand exposure, ISO, Shutter Speed, Aperture.
7. You may also have a problem, with continuous servo, You may want to try canon single focus. The problem, is everyony time you half press the shutter in c-f , the camera will refocus. then you get OOF shots.
So single focus may work better.
*. WB- try auto or asetting between 3700-4000k if your camera, allows that. See what you get?

Gymnastics are fun to watch, not fun to shoot!

don't kill the messanger, enjoy

20DNoob

sportsshooter06 wrote:

7. You may also have a problem, with continuous servo, You may want to try canon single focus. The problem, is everyony time you half press the shutter in c-f , the camera will refocus. then you get OOF shots.

I wonder, does anyone know if the XSi supports the back button focus(*) in the C. Fn? If so that would sort out the issue for the OP regarding focusing.

Just an idea.

Toshido

20DNoob wrote:

I wonder, does anyone know if the XSi supports the back button focus(*) in the C. Fn? If so that would sort out the issue for the OP regarding focusing.

Just an idea.

Can't say for sure about the XSI, but the Xt does. Can't imagine canon would have removed it. Shoule be in the custom functions.

Rocketman766

20DNoob wrote:

Gotta say, given the conditions you've done a great job. As for keeping you daughter in focus, switch to the Center Focus Point and you won't have to worry any longer.

Aside from that if I were you the next thing on my wishlist would be a better program for editing. Download some free trails to see which ones suit your needs. There's heaps of tutorials online to watch to see the work flow so that should help.

I'm a HUGE fan of Lightroom2 just for the fact it's so incredibly easy to use(maybe have your "daughter" buy it and get the educational discount[$100]). As far as I'm concerned the Adjustment Brush is reason alone to get it, and unless your going to be doing some super serious editing it should last you plenty of time.

Edit: Yup, the XSi only goes to 1600

Thanks for the input, I will give Center Focus some attention and see how that works. As far as editing programs, I just placed my order for Lightroom2/CS4. Do I need both? Probably not, but since I myself am currently a student, I could not pass up the savings and figure if I need CS4, well, then I have it...

20DNoob

Well since you got a deal it can't hurt.