fab at forty

Elaine · February 8, 2009

(...and a homeschooling mom of 4 energetic boys!)

My friend and her husband are both turning 40 next month, so she asked me to take some photos of her as a surprise gift for her husband. She also had this done when they turned 30 (at a Glamour Shots place in the mall), so she figured it was time for an updated look!

We spent nearly 4 hours together today, shooting in my living room and at a local park. I have 300 photos to sort through, and I'm tired and have a huge headache, but I wanted to share this one that I was pleased with. I've tweaked the white balance, spent tons of time cloning out stray hairs and a few blemishes, brightened the eyes just a smidge, cropped to 5x7 for display and added a vignette. Other than that, I didn't "do" anything to it, which is a rarity for me. Perhaps I'm just too worn out to see what needs to be done!

We decided not to worry about her glasses hitting her irises because that's the style that they are. We tried some without, but we both liked the shots with the glasses better.

Canon 40D
17-55 2.8 IS
ISO 100
f/5.6
1/125
manual flash on a cord through an umbrella at 1/4 (I think)

The background is simply a green wall in my living room. When she said she wanted to wear this black dress that her husband bought for her, I figured it would look great on the green, darkened by the fall-off from the umbrella. I think I was right!

I'll add more later to this thread as I edit, but here's one for now. C&C please!
Should I darken her arm a bit more?

1a

1b

Nikolai · February 8, 2009

Elaine,

while it's a nice image, female subjects "after 25" require very special attention to both makeup and lighting. Single side light, while making the scene dramatic, also tend to enhance every pore/crease on the face - something you may not necessarily want to show off...

Possible cures (can be used alone or in combination):

front light: ring, batterfly, clamshell (reflector will do as a fill in a crunch)
lots and lots of foundation/concealer
postprocessing (generic - PS, special - PP, etc.)

HTH

Elaine · February 8, 2009

Nikolai wrote:

Elaine,

while it's a nice image, female subjects "after 25" require very special attention to both makeup and lighting. Single side light, while making the scene dramatic, also tend to enhance every pore/crease on the face - something you may not necessarily want to show off...
Possible cures (can be used alone or in combination):
front light: ring, batterfly, clamshell (reflector will do as a fill in a crunch)

lots and lots of foundation/concealer

postprocessing (generic - PS, special - PP, etc.)

HTH

Hi Nikolai! So, I get the impression that you think I should "do" something with this image, or at least her skin?

I hear what you're saying, but honestly, I'm stuck back at the "it's a nice image" part and choosing to hold on to that for dear life! {Mr. Lighting said I had a nice image! Mr. Lighting said I had a nice image!

} OK...back to reality.

I'm at the very beginning of my lighting knowledge, which I'm sure comes at no surprise to you! I'm aware of the styles you mentioned, and I know I've seen examples of them, but I couldn't draw a diagram of them. I've got one flash and just got one umbrella three days ago. So, that's what I'm starting with. And I'd like to keep things as simple as possible.

With regard to being "over 25"...
Honestly, neither she nor I are interested in totally disguising her age or making her out to be something she is not. (Her husband wants to recognize her, after all!) A crease here and there doesn't bother us in the least. Since the light and make-up is what it is, I'm left with doing any smoothing in post, which I've never attempted, but I'm not opposed to it. I would just want to do it very lightly. I'll look into it!

Thank you very much for your input, Nik!!!

Seefutlung · February 8, 2009

Personally ... I say loose the glasses ... they are distracting and really don't lend themselves to this type of portrait (glamour-ish). If the portrait was more of an environmental mature ...then yeah ... keep the glasses.

I like the lighting and pose.

Gary

Elaine · February 8, 2009

Seefutlung wrote:

Personally ... I say loose the glasses ... they are distracting and really don't lend themselves to this type of portrait (glamour-ish). If the portrait was more of an environmental mature ...then yeah ... keep the glasses.

I like the lighting and pose.

Gary

Thanks! We tried both ways and preferred the glasses.

Perhaps the glasses better suit this sort of shot, in your opinion?

2

Nikolai · February 8, 2009

Elaine wrote:

Hi Nikolai! So, I get the impression that you think I should "do" something with this image, or at least her skin? I hear what you're saying, but honestly, I'm stuck back at the "it's a nice image" part and choosing to hold on to that for dear life! {Mr. Lighting said I had a nice image! Mr. Lighting said I had a nice image!} OK...back to reality.

I'm at the very beginning of my lighting knowledge, which I'm sure comes at no surprise to you! I'm aware of the styles you mentioned, and I know I've seen examples of them, but I couldn't draw a diagram of them. I've got one flash and just got one umbrella three days ago. So, that's what I'm starting with. And I'd like to keep things as simple as possible.

With regard to being "over 25"...
Honestly, neither she nor I are interested in totally disguising her age or making her out to be something she is not. (Her husband wants to recognize her, after all!) A crease here and there doesn't bother us in the least. Since the light and make-up is what it is, I'm left with doing any smoothing in post, which I've never attempted, but I'm not opposed to it. I would just want to do it very lightly. I'll look into it!

Thank you very much for your input, Nik!!!

You're welcome:-)

I'm not saying you have to so something now and here, it's only a reference for the future engagements. Believe me, it was not so long ago (just a few years) when all I had was one (non-studio) flash and one umbrella (and not even reflector to fill the shadows) and no idea what I'll be getting.. But with time and practice you'll become more and more aware of what works when/where and what not, and you'll be able to make *conscious* decisions, e.g. whether you want your subject age to show or not. And, most importantly, what do you need to do to to achieve what you want.

I'll be covering all that (and then some) in June, wanna join us?

jayegirl · February 8, 2009

Number 2 is great. For me, in number 1 she looks awkward and uncomfortable.

Hackbone · February 8, 2009

Try putting the umbrella light through a diffuser. Aim the umbrella in the trypical fashion but hang a white bed sheet in front of it. This gives you a larger light source which will be softer and not as harsh on her. How about getting very close, she has some great eyes!

divamum · February 8, 2009

Elaine (and I'm getting around to answering your very kind PM - I've been busy today and wanted to do it when I wasn't rushed!) -

Despite the lovely lighting (and

on the background - it sure does work!) I too prefer the overall effect of #2. Her "styling" is natural and outdoors-y, and thus the naturalr light and stone background fit beautifully with the overall look.

The first one has some lovely elements - the angle you got emphasises how beautiful her face/bone structure are , and the expression is alive and compelling. I think the "problem" isn't as much the glasses or the makeup speficially, as that there's a disjunct between those more informal elements and the dressy top and formal portrait style.

What happens if you do some low opacity cloning/blurring to her face on a separate layer and then dial the opacity of that up and down further to suit? I've also been having some good luck recently changing makeup details in post - I've been using gradient fills and different saturations on lips to adjust (digital lipstick!), and acquired some eyelash brushes that really managed to add some (subtle) punch to some of my more recent shots. (I HATE the "airbrushed" look in general, so my goal is to make those pp changes look "natural", or at least like skilfully-applied makeup rather than pp per se.) I wonder what darkening her lip colour and subtly darkening the eyeliner would do to the mood of the shot overall?

dunno

Just musings. I find these shots very interesting - there's something about both of them that really draws me into the subject....

DavidS · February 8, 2009

Nice photos Elaine! She is very pretty for 40. Number two is my favorite. I do like the background in #1 and your vignette.

Elaine · February 9, 2009

jayegirl wrote:

Number 2 is great. For me, in number 1 she looks awkward and uncomfortable.

Thanks for the comments!

Elaine · February 9, 2009

Hackbone wrote:

Try putting the umbrella light through a diffuser. Aim the umbrella in the trypical fashion but hang a white bed sheet in front of it. This gives you a larger light source which will be softer and not as harsh on her. How about getting very close, she has some great eyes!

Thanks for the comments and tips! Even just having one light stand and an umbrella (and my flash cord), my living room got crowded (and totally dismantled and shifted around). I'm just picturing trying to hang a sheet now.

Don't get me wrong...I'm not laughing at your idea. It truly sounds like a great one. It's just amazing to me what all goes into this photography...habit.

Elaine · February 9, 2009

divamum wrote:

Elaine (and I'm getting around to answering your very kind PM - I've been busy today and wanted to do it when I wasn't rushed!) -

Despite the lovely lighting (and on the background - it sure does work!) I too prefer the overall effect of #2. Her "styling" is natural and outdoors-y, and thus the naturalr light and stone background fit beautifully with the overall look.

The first one has some lovely elements - the angle you got emphasises how beautiful her face/bone structure are , and the expression is alive and compelling. I think the "problem" isn't as much the glasses or the makeup speficially, as that there's a disjunct between those more informal elements and the dressy top and formal portrait style.

What happens if you do some low opacity cloning/blurring to her face on a separate layer and then dial the opacity of that up and down further to suit? I've also been having some good luck recently changing makeup details in post - I've been using gradient fills and different saturations on lips to adjust (digital lipstick!), and acquired some eyelash brushes that really managed to add some (subtle) punch to some of my more recent shots. (I HATE the "airbrushed" look in general, so my goal is to make those pp changes look "natural", or at least like skilfully-applied makeup rather than pp per se.) I wonder what darkening her lip colour and subtly darkening the eyeliner would do to the mood of the shot overall? dunno

Just musings. I find these shots very interesting - there's something about both of them that really draws me into the subject....

Hi divamum!

Thank you for this thoughtful reply. I can see what you mean about the glasses seeming to go with another mood/feel/outfit/enviro. At this point, if she's happy, I'm happy. She had decided she wanted to wear her glasses since she nearly always takes them off for photos, and then she doesn't look like herself because she wears glasses all the time. We tried a few without and I still need to decide if any of them are good enough to work up. I was honestly more concerned about achieving some sort of success with the lighting set-up I've got than anything else. I wanted nice catchlights in both eyes, so I'm pleased on that front!

This whole shoot is giving me fits because she has so many fly-away hairs! I must have spent over an hour on that one photo, just cloning and healing! I was hoping the outdoor ones wouldn't be so bad, but the sun is just lighting them right up! Grrr...so much for quick and easy processing.

I've added a 1b version of the photo in the first post. It's just a bit more dramatic and hopefully smoother on the skin. I don't know...I think I've looked at it for too long now. I really don't have portrait retouching under my belt, and at the rate I'm going, I'm just going to be happy to get this shoot processed in a somewhat timely manner!

Thank you very much for the tips and comments!

Elaine · February 9, 2009

DavidS wrote:

Nice photos Elaine! She is very pretty for 40. Number two is my favorite. I do like the background in #1 and your vignette.

Thank you, David! I think she looks great at 40, too!

Elaine · February 9, 2009

OK...here are a few more from outside (where I'm obviously more comfortable!).

3 - I love how the colors almost look like fall here...just the setting sun lighting up the trees.

4 - Not totally satisfied with the processing/colors on this one.

5 - This was a shot she particularly wanted.

6 - This hasn't been cropped at all, and I'm not sure how I will end up cropping it. (I'm considering a 10:4 pano and cropping just above her elbows.) I just loved all the specular highlights and shapes in the blown out background. I also like her smile here, but I'm not in love her kinda straight/formal position/posture. This sort of thing is definitely a weakness of mine...I think I'd rather just observe and catch moments than direct and pose people. I get so frustrated with myself when I see shots like this. Sometimes I think of things I should have tried later. I guess I'll only get better with doing, like most things in life, eh?

BTW...all except #1 were shot with the Canon 85 1.8 at 2.8 or 3.5.

Ed911 · February 9, 2009

Hi Elaine, I see you were wondering what to do with your portrait. So, I took the liberty of doing a little retouching on your image. I hope it gives you some ideas.

Original

Retouched...on my laptop...cropped and adjusted

Elaine · February 9, 2009

Ed911 wrote:

Hi Elaine, I see you were wondering what to do with your portrait. So, I took the liberty of doing a little retouching on your image. I hope it gives you some ideas.

Original

--

Retouched...on my laptop...cropped and adjusted

--

Hmmm...the color looks a bit odd to me...way too yellow on my monitor. I can see you smoothed the skin quite a bit, but unfortunately, just seeing it doesn't give me any ideas because I don't have a clue how you did it! Care to share your own steps?

Elaine · February 9, 2009

Alrighty...here's another try at an indoor shot. Different outfit and different pose. Is this one any better, in any way?
I chose not to deal with the stray hairs right now.
Any ideas how to deal with the banding from vignettes?

7

jeffreaux2 · February 9, 2009

Great job Elaine!

The outdoor shots are of course beautiful. The umbrella lit shot is pretty nice too. I understand about not wanting to change her looks in PP. The hard angle of the studio light however seems to have emphasized some texture to her skin that isn't evident in the outdoors shots. I don't think a bit of smoothing would hurt.

I ordered an 11' stand, a 45 and 60 inch umbrella, and the bracketry required to get a speedlight attatched this morning. Im looking forward to the experimentation, and already have ideas about locations where this would be a big plus for an image. I hope my first results are as nice looking as yours!

jeffreaux2 · February 9, 2009

Elaine wrote:

Alrighty...here's another try at an indoor shot. Different outfit and different pose. Is this one any better, in any way?
I chose not to deal with the stray hairs right now.
Any ideas how to deal with the banding from vignettes?

7

Oh wow......

This wasn't here when I just sent that reply.

VEEERY Nice!!!! She should love this....hubby too!!!

I don't see the banding. Open the image up in photoshop and zoom in a bit. I bet it isn't there.

Alternatively you can print a 4x6......and see what you get. Again I doubt it will be a problem.

Elaine · February 9, 2009

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Great job Elaine!

The outdoor shots are of course beautiful. The umbrella lit shot is pretty nice too. I understand about not wanting to change her looks in PP. The hard angle of the studio light however seems to have emphasized some texture to her skin that isn't evident in the outdoors shots. I don't think a bit of smoothing would hurt.

I ordered an 11' stand, a 45 and 60 inch umbrella, and the bracketry required to get a speedlight attatched this morning. Im looking forward to the experimentation, and already have ideas about locations where this would be a big plus for an image. I hope my first results are as nice looking as yours!

Thanks, Jeff. I can't wait to see what you do with new toys!

Elaine · February 9, 2009

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Oh wow......

This wasn't here when I just sent that reply.

VEEERY Nice!!!! She should love this....hubby too!!!

I don't see the banding. Open the image up in photoshop and zoom in a bit. I bet it isn't there.

Alternatively you can print a 4x6......and see what you get. Again I doubt it will be a problem.

Oh, I'm glad you saw this one. And I'm so relieved and happy to hear you like it! Thank you.

jeffreaux2 · February 9, 2009

Elaine wrote:

Oh, I'm glad you saw this one. And I'm so relieved and happy to hear you like it! Thank you.

Also,

I now and then have banding issues in images where LR was used for the vignette. I don't recall ever seeing banding when I used PS to create the vignette. In PS I usually use irregular shapes for multiple vignettes that work together to emphasize the face.....rather than a single oval or square shaped vignette.

Elaine · February 9, 2009

jeffreaux2 wrote:

Also,

I now and then have banding issues in images where LR was used for the vignette. I don't recall ever seeing banding when I used PS to create the vignette. In PS I usually use irregular shapes for multiple vignettes that work together to emphasize the face.....rather than a single oval or square shaped vignette.

This was definitely done in PS. Actually it's an action. I don't usually have trouble, but I think the nature of this shot (light and color of background) have led to some issues here. I think I may need to try another approach as it does seem to really be there.

Ed911 · February 9, 2009

Elaine wrote:

Hmmm...the color looks a bit odd to me...way too yellow on my monitor. I can see you smoothed the skin quite a bit, but unfortunately, just seeing it doesn't give me any ideas because I don't have a clue how you did it! Care to share your own steps?

The steps are many...too many to list here...it's a visual to show you how you can rescue your shots when the lighting, white balance, etc are off.

The skin was warmed, not to look natural, but to look like a studio portrait using warm lighting. Just to let you see that all is not lost. Skin lighting is preferential...I like warmer...some like cooler.

The idea is not only to smooth, but to remove, and add shadows where needed to fix the image. Remove glasses shadows etc...

There are lots of portrait tutorials on the web...just Google them...that's the best place to start.

Ed911 · February 9, 2009

Here's one a little cooler. Can't say I don't like it better myself. I'm always experimenting with retouching portraiture. Just one question. Is your monitor calibrated...because if it's not, then your aren't seeing true color anyway. It's a big concern that a lot of photographers have when turning over CD's/DVD's full of color corrected images to clients who will view them uncorrected monitors...too blue, yellow, etc.

By-the-way, I like your number 7 quite a bit. Just one nit...her right hand on photo left looks much larger than her hand on her hip. You may have been a little too close which will cause exagerated features on parts of the body that are closer to the lens.

Qarik · February 9, 2009

geez..she looks like an entirely different person in these shots.

They look pretty good and I like the glasses. To be quite honest I didn't find the lighting or pose very flattering in the 1st shot.

Elaine · February 9, 2009

Ed911 wrote:

Here's one a little cooler. Can't say I don't like it better myself. I'm always experimenting with retouching portraiture. Just one question. Is your monitor calibrated...because if it's not, then your aren't seeing true color anyway. It's a big concern that a lot of photographers have when turning over CD's/DVD's full of color corrected images to clients who will view them uncorrected monitors...too blue, yellow, etc.

By-the-way, I like your number 7 quite a bit. Just one nit...her right hand on photo left looks much larger than her hand on her hip. You may have been a little too close which will cause exagerated features on parts of the body that are closer to the lens.

--

Yep, I'm calibrated. This version does look better to me, although still a touch yellow IMO.

#7...I'm sure I was too close...tight living room and all. Things to remember for next time...if there is one! Thanks for the tip.

Elaine · February 9, 2009

Qarik wrote:

geez..she looks like an entirely different person in these shots. They look pretty good and I like the glasses. To be quite honest I didn't find the lighting or pose very flattering in the 1st shot.

Yes, she does kinda go from stern business woman to outdoorsy woman, doesn't she? Thanks for comments, Qarik!

fab at forty

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