Omg Lax!!

David Evertsen

Okay I have heard everyone saying how much fun Lacrosse is and how they can't wait for it to start. I thought okay no biggie. Then I went to my first High JV and Varsity games to shoot. Wow if it doesn't make me a better sports photographer nothing will. The hits, action, passing wide open runs. It is amazing I could not believe I was having so much fun. Just have to work on where I need to be to not get so many butts and backs then make sure I show both the attackers and Defenders some love every game.
I will post some pictures when I feel comfortable after about 4 games or so.

David Evertsen
www.phaboulousphotos.com

KMCC

Sounds like your hooked.

David Evertsen

KMCC wrote:

Sounds like your hooked.

Kent,

I am really glad you replied, yes I am hooked I can't help but be a better photographer shooting LAX. I however had a game that left me with a moral delima.

The team I was shooting for was up by 7 with about 2:40 to go in the game. The game had been rough but not nasty all game. There was one particular player on the opposing team who was taking a ton of cheap shots though. Long story short after the opposing team was flagged for basically tackling a player
they kinda ganged up on the player on the ground and the trouble player kicked the player on the ground once or twice and an rumble ensued. I heard a coach lost his job for this. The game was called and everyone went home. It was kind of ugly. The fans of the opposing team who was the home team where great and not involved.

Here is my question, I stopped shooting at the whistle and flag and didn't follow through so-to-speak. Should I have shot pictures of the rumble? What do others do?? What would you do in this situation??
Anyone out there want to lend a personal experience. Do most of you shoot after the whistle or stop shooting, rumble or not??

David
www.phabulousphotos.com

KMCC

David Evertsen wrote:

Kent,

I am really glad you replied, yes I am hooked I can't help but be a better photographer shooting LAX. I however had a game that left me with a moral delima.

The team I was shooting for was up by 7 with about 2:40 to go in the game. The game had been rough but not nasty all game. There was one particular player on the opposing team who was taking a ton of cheap shots though. Long story short after the opposing team was flagged for basically tackling a player
they kinda ganged up on the player on the ground and the trouble player kicked the player on the ground once or twice and an rumble ensued. I heard a coach lost his job for this. The game was called and everyone went home. It was kind of ugly. The fans of the opposing team who was the home team where great and not involved.

Here is my question, I stopped shooting at the whistle and flag and didn't follow through so-to-speak. Should I have shot pictures of the rumble? What do others do?? What would you do in this situation??
Anyone out there want to lend a personal experience. Do most of you shoot after the whistle or stop shooting, rumble or not??

David
www.phabulousphotos.com

It's unfortunate that things like that happen, but they do. I'm not sure that there's a single correct answer to your question.

Whether or not I photograph such incidents is a spur of the moment decision for me.

That said, I do have an iron-clad, carved-in-stone personal rule which I will never violate: I never post photographs of fights or injuries to my web site.

For example, I was shooting a U18 Boys soccer game a couple of years ago when a fight broke out between two players on the field. The situation quickly escalated with both benches, along with all of the coaches, coming on to the field. That's when it really got nasty. The coach of one team actually got into a fist fight with one of his own players and at one point chased him off the field into the parking lot where the two continued to exchange blows.

I was so stunned by what I was witnessing, that I took several shots of the fight between the coach and his own player. A week or so after the game, I was contacted by officials of the youth league asking if I had photographs of the event. I ended up providing them with two or three images with the understanding that they could be used during a disciplinary hearing, but could not be published or distributed in any form.

Last season, I was shooting a college lacrosse game. The attacking team was driving in on the goal when one of the defenders lost his balance and fell on to the lower leg of the goalkeeper, breaking both bones in his lower leg. At the moment of the injury, I was shooting a burst assuming that I was going to capture a goal. Instead, I captured an horrendous injury.

Months after that game, I was contacted by the goalkeeper's father asking if I had images of the injury. Both he and his son wanted them for posterity's sake and to see what had actually happened. Fortunately, the player recovered after multiple surgeries on his leg. After explaining that the images were graphic, I sent them copies of the files.

There have been other examples of fights and injuries where I have just put my camera down. I never want to profit from such images, but there may be times when capturing them is appropriate.

It's a tough call.

KED

KMCC wrote:

It's a tough call.

I don't think it's a tough call at all -- I think you nailed it. We're there to shoot lax, and unlike hockey, fighting has no part in the sport. I haven't EVER seen a fight in lax, but were one to break out, my camera would be down.

On a happier note, dual scrimmages for Brown this weekend, regular season 9 days away. This is OUR time now!:ivar I look forward to seeing/posting great lax shots. Have a good season!
Kent

David Evertsen

I had so many of the kids ask tonight at the Girls LAX game if I had shots from last night. I honestly was happy I did not have any, the incident happened last night. A player on the other team was suspended from school for a while and a coach lost his job for going after the coach of the team I shot for. It is in the past we need to move on, our coach even said so when other where around asking what I had. It was a situation I have never been in and like always Dgriner's came through with flying colors..

Thanks,
David

www.phabulousphotos.com

mmcatee

Hands down the #1 sport to shoot
The action and angles are endless

wmstumme

That's too bad your first real exposure to lax had an unfortunate scene like that. That kind of stuff has no place in lacrosse, and thankfully occurs pretty seldom. Important for the refs to keep a constant handle on the game throughout--almost every fight I have seen has come where there have been weak refs who have allowed too much to go on all game. Oh well, enough of my rant. Go ahead an post some photos of the game (not the fighting--I agree with the comments). If I waited until I was comfortable (or good) I'd have about another decade or two before I could post...

David Evertsen

wmstumme wrote:

That's too bad your first real exposure to lax had an unfortunate scene like that. That kind of stuff has no place in lacrosse, and thankfully occurs pretty seldom. Important for the refs to keep a constant handle on the game throughout--almost every fight I have seen has come where there have been weak refs who have allowed too much to go on all game. Oh well, enough of my rant. Go ahead an post some photos of the game (not the fighting--I agree with the comments). If I waited until I was comfortable (or good) I'd have about another decade or two before I could post...

You are spot on!! The refs said nothing to the kids at all, they where very young and did not do anything but make calls. I have never seen any sort of game where the refs did not talk to the players and calm them down or let them not what is expected or unacceptable. For both the JV and Varsity games they said nothing..

Here are some of my pictures..

1.


2. Favorite Wrong side of the plane picture..


3.Chasing the ball..


4.


C&C of my first game appreciated. I am working out where to sit and how the games moves.. Trying to avoid backs and butts..

Thanks,
David
www.phabulousphotos.com

jonh68

Well, the first rule of sports is shoot tight, crop tighter.You have some dead space.

Second, for me anyway, is get low and shoot high. It makes the players more heroic and you get better face shots.

David Evertsen

jonh68 wrote:

Well, the first rule of sports is shoot tight, crop tighter.You have some dead space.

Second, for me anyway, is get low and shoot high. It makes the players more heroic and you get better face shots.

I have a problem framing properly on these and others for sure. Does it make a huge difference if I cut off
a stick if it is not an integral part of the shot?? I have strayed my first two games from getting low but will definitely get lower especially in bad light to get some more faces..

Thanks so much..
David

jonh68

David Evertsen wrote:

I have a problem framing properly on these and others for sure. Does it make a huge difference if I cut off
a stick if it is not an integral part of the shot?? I have strayed my first two games from getting low but will definitely get lower especially in bad light to get some more faces..

Thanks so much..
David

I don't shoot LAX, but if you get a great shot and the stick is cutoff, I don't think it's a problem. Your last shot is an example. You could crop even tighter on that one which would put more emphasis on the players. If you were shooting REALLY tight, you could even frame around the right shoulders of the player with his back to the frame, just about completely cutting off the stick.

johng

In addition to framing tighter, faces are important. That's real tough when you have helmets and night. I don't shoot lax but I shoot football, so the issue is largely the same. You basically have 2 choices - expose for the faces or use flash. If you use flash I suggest externally mounted on a monopod below the camera, use a flash powerful enough and preferably one with external battery pack for recharge. It really is one of the most challenging environments to shoot in. So, the question is whether you want to shoot night time lax or sports in general. If you don't have a particluar affinity to the night lax, it's a lot easier to shoot sports during the day or even soccer at night since there are no helmets. But nighttime sports with helmets are particularly tough. IMO, faces are still critical to success so you have some tough choices for how to get those faces exposed.

johng

David - one other point. Looks like you're selling photos even with only a very small up-charge. The advice is you need to really cull the herd down a bit. People don't want to look through 600+ images for a single game. I'd drop that down to 200 at the most - in reality LESS until you get more experience. It's better to have 75 good quality shots and nothing else than 75 good quality shots surrounded by 600 not-so-good shots. It's a quality thing but also a time thing. Buyers just won't page through that many photos.

David Evertsen

johng wrote:

David - one other point. Looks like you're selling photos even with only a very small up-charge. The advice is you need to really cull the herd down a bit. People don't want to look through 600+ images for a single game. I'd drop that down to 200 at the most - in reality LESS until you get more experience. It's better to have 75 good quality shots and nothing else than 75 good quality shots surrounded by 600 not-so-good shots. It's a quality thing but also a time thing. Buyers just won't page through that many photos.

John thanks so much, thats why this is so much fun. I don't really need to show everyone how the sausage is made in my gallery. Even I find that tedious on my machine when looking at my galleries. I will definitely cull the backs butts and wrong side of the plane shots and not show them my lack of experience with this. My framing in the camera will get better and hopefully my night LAX. I have no choice as they do not play during the day or on weekends. It has only been sanctioned for this the second year by the FHSAA and I enjoy the opportunity to shoot it. I have yet to be on the sidelines with anyone else shooting LAX where I live. I always heard it was a blast and now I believe it. Lets hope I get better at it.

Thanks,

KED

wmstumme wrote:

That kind of stuff has no place in lacrosse, and thankfully occurs pretty seldom.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, Will. I've probably watched lax games numbering by now in the thousands -- literally -- youth, HS, D-I & III and pro, and have never seen a fight.

Have a good season! Ivies start regular season this coming weekend.

wmstumme

David: Nice shots. I can't seem to do anything under the lights--so my hat is off to you.

jonh68 wrote:

I don't shoot LAX, but if you get a great shot and the stick is cutoff, I don't think it's a problem. Your last shot is an example. You could crop even tighter on that one which would put more emphasis on the players. If you were shooting REALLY tight, you could even frame around the right shoulders of the player with his back to the frame, just about completely cutting off the stick.

Let me disagree slightly with John on this one. In the last shot, I'm assuming the guy with his back to us was the guy with the ball. I'm saying assuming, because since it is cut off, we really don't know the context of the moment--did he have the ball or not... why was he being hit? I think the stick/ball being present helps provide that context. It's kind of related to KED's comments in Oldtime's recent posting about shooting landscape in many shots to give that perspective/context of the moment. I think if your going for "peak of action" type shot--you've got to have all the elements that make up that peak--and in many instances, the stick/ball will be required. But I think it is very situational.

John is right though in the greater concept--if your really focusing on the face--kinda the "sportrait" kind of thing, you can get away with the stick being cut off. In fact, getting in close to really see the expressions will make for a much better shot.

Oldtime's line is the best: <i> "There are no rules - sometimes the story is best told by shooting tight others by shooting loose" </i>


Looking forward to seeing what we all can capture this spring. See you guys out there...

oldtime

wmstumme wrote:

David: Nice shots. I can't seem to do anything under the lights--so my hat is off to you.



Let me disagree slightly with John on this one. In the last shot, I'm assuming the guy with his back to us was the guy with the ball. I'm saying assuming, because since it is cut off, we really don't know the context of the moment--did he have the ball or not... why was he being hit? I think the stick/ball being present helps provide that context. It's kind of related to KED's comments in Oldtime's recent posting about shooting landscape in many shots to give that perspective/context of the moment. I think if your going for "peak of action" type shot--you've got to have all the elements that make up that peak--and in many instances, the stick/ball will be required. But I think it is very situational.

John is right though in the greater concept--if your really focusing on the face--kinda the "sportrait" kind of thing, you can get away with the stick being cut off. In fact, getting in close to really see the expressions will make for a much better shot.

Oldtime's line is the best: "There are no rules - sometimes the story is best told by shooting tight others by shooting loose"


Looking forward to seeing what we all can capture this spring. See you guys out there...

From Hopkins -Duke regular season game last year
Tight


Loose

Loose again


Had I been shooting tight in these last 2 alot of the story would be missing

I would crop your #1 like this


You need to be low to the ground sitting ,on your Knees or lying down

David Evertsen

oldtime wrote:

I would crop your #1 like this


You need to be low to the ground sitting ,on your Knees or lying down

Thanks very much, I just shot one tonight, got rid of a bunch of junk and shot with the worst lights in Central Florida as far a cycling goes. Will post some this weekend when I get them squared away.
Get to shoot JV and Varsity this Friday night so I am having fun. The pictures definitely make a difference
down low.. As long as the curve of the field is not to noticeable that drives me nuts...

KED

oldtime wrote:

From Hopkins -Duke regular season game last year
Tight

No disrespect whatsoever intended, OT, but i feel like shooting tight, getting something like this involves a lot of luck, whereas if I were shooting this action loose, I could always crop it down to the same end result. It's all a matter of personal preference of course, but for me, outside of very special situations, such as where I know I want (and can) get the goalie in a save situation, I'm staying locked into landscape.

FWIW, as I stated in a post that I put up tonight, I shot next to the head photog for US Lacrosse Magazine yesterday. He had two cameras with him, both Canon Mk IIs, one with a 400 f/2.8 and one with a 500 or 600 f/4. He was also tethered via Pocket Wizards to another camera planted at the corner focused back at the goal, with a 200ish-looking lens.

Not once did I see him spin to portrait. Again it's only fwiw and everyone's mmv.

jonh68

No disrespect whatsoever intended, OT, but i feel like shooting tight, getting something like this involves a lot of luck, whereas if I were shooting this action loose, I could always crop it down to the same end result.

That's the real trick isn't it?. Shoot too loose, and you don't have enough info to crop. That's why its best for some shooters to use a prime so they are not continually pulling in and out constantly. Shooting any sport depends on luck sometimes. Each way, shooting loose or tight, has it's risks and rewards.

My recommendations for cropping out sticks or limbs is within what you have to work with and also what the final goal of the picture. For a magazine, newspaper submission, telling the story is critical.

For putting on your website to sell to parents, not so much. I have pictures on my website that I wouldn't want anyone on these boards to see as an example of my best work. However, parents have bought them.