Loley male or female photographer...

Candid Arts

*If this should go in "Mind Your Own Business", then please move it, I wasn't sure.

So I'm wondering when the photographer is a guy (or girl) and the bride wants shots of her getting dressed and all that (or if it's a girl, then the groom) what you do? Is there something in the contract that you state protecting you either way...i.e if the bride wants the male photographer to photograph the bride (or female photographer to photograph the groom), or if they don't want photographs, that you (the photographer) are protected from anything?

I'm in the process of creating a contract for my weddings, as I just had two book me within a week period and have two more this fall with a possibility of a third. So I'm trying to get this going.

Thanks for anyone's help...

ChatKat

No!
I never put into my contract any promised quanity of shots, or specific shots. I will go over what I will cover verbally, but, I cannot guarantee that the day will go as the bride plans. I tell the bride and groom that. I wil ldo every thing I can to make it happen if it happens.

If they make a requested shot list I don't want to be the one to administer who is who. I tell them to assign someone who knows the family to round them up because I don't want the responsibility of missing someone that I don't know that is hiding out behind the bushes with the maid of honor.

It frequently changes so much that you can be in big legal trouble if you promise something you can't deliver - even for no fault of your own. Things happen at weddings and you have very little control over the outcome. You can document the day, you can set up and be there. This is why you have two or three camera, extra everything.

But promise something? Nope. What if you have a card that fails? What if you have a weather issue, a car issue and the bride is late? I could make a laundry list of why. What if the FOB or groom is drunk...

You get the idea.

Candid Arts wrote:

*If this should go in "Mind Your Own Business", then please move it, I wasn't sure.

So I'm wondering when the photographer is a guy (or girl) and the bride wants shots of her getting dressed and all that (or if it's a girl, then the groom) what you do? Is there something in the contract that you state protecting you either way...i.e if the bride wants the male photographer to photograph the bride (or female photographer to photograph the groom), or if they don't want photographs, that you (the photographer) are protected from anything?

I'm in the process of creating a contract for my weddings, as I just had two book me within a week period and have two more this fall with a possibility of a third. So I'm trying to get this going.

Thanks for anyone's help...

Candid Arts

Well I'm not talking like quantity or specific shots, just something that says that a male will be taking pictures of a female getting dressed, etc...

Art Scott

Candid Arts wrote:

Well I'm not talking like quantity or specific shots, just something that says that a male will be taking pictures of a female getting dressed, etc...

Before I shot my 1st wedding over 30yrs ago.....I went to the library and studied every wedding photog that had a book published and they all, everyone of them had pics of the brides in the shower...yup nudes....tastefully done but non the less nudes...so i made out my list of shots and after interviewing a few brides ( that were already married) and found times had changed from the late 1930's, 40's to my time of the late 70's......all of a sudden no photog was spending theday with their cleints and NO ONE was shooting any shower or getting dressed shots..........I looked again at the masters of the wedding photogs and thought to my self what a shame...................

So to get to the crux of your question........always have an assistant with you....if your subject is female (Bride) then your assistant should be female....for the Groom....that really is not an issue ...... normally no guy is going to try to say a female was unprofessional and sexually harrassing him..........he may say she can't shoot worth a crap or his 7yr old sister could have done better .........so for you ahve an assistantwith you......you should not need to spell it out in blk/wht that a male is shooting a female subject........as long as you are 150% professional and you have an assistant then you should be covered.

Do not use deposit for any money prepaid to hold dates and such....use retainer......I found this the hard way.....my contracts and statement and receipts all stated taht deposits were absolutely NON-Refundable.......I had to refund one........a lawyer aquantence asked me a simple question.....do lawyers take deposits?? of course I said no you all want retainer fees......got big slap up side my ear (for you really young-uns under 30...that used to be called being cuffed.......now that means reatrained with a pair of smith/wesson wrist irons {handcuffs}:D) and he said I think you understand now...................oh I also represented myself at the hearing....never again will I do that either:D

Scott_Quier

Like Kathy, I don't promise to deliver any specific image. Indeed, my contract specifically states that the wedding day/event is very fluid and that there is no controlling how things are going to happen. I state (verbally) that I will attempt to get all reqested images, but that nothing is guaranteed.

PJ work is just that - you document what happens, you attempt to move the action in any particular direction for the sake of getting a particular photo.

As for the cross-gender photo ops - Talk with the client(s). I hear some ladies are more easy-going about nudity than are others. I have not yet contracted with a lady wanting anything in the way of revealing "getting ready" shots. If you encounter a prospective client wanting such and are working by yourself, explain the situation. If that doesn't meet with the prospective client's desires/needs/wants/expectations - well it's better to find that out before the contract is signed than afterwards. If they contract with you with that understanding and still want you to get the "preparation" shots, then I have only four words of advice for you, "Be professional", and "Voice Recorder" (yes, paranoia, but "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you"). The first will reduce the chances of a problem and the second will help eliminate the "He said, she said" thing in court. The voice recorder may, in fact, eliminate the trip to court.

bmoreshooter

m or f
All photos taken for a wedding are actually property of the Bride that has hired and is paying you for your services. All photos are given to that bride afterwards. If a picture looks questionable get permission before you shoot it. Always have a parent or bridesmaid present when you are shooting prep photos. If you use one of those photos illegally (distributed without proper consent) even posting it here, then you deserve whatever you get. This is a business of class and ethics. If you follow the basic rules of common decency and act as a professional you should never have to concern yourself with litigation. I have been doing this for a long time and I have never heard of anyone being sued for taking indecent photos at a wedding. Common sence rules.

Candid Arts

bmoreshooter wrote:

All photos taken for a wedding are actually property of the Bride that has hired and is paying you for your services. All photos are given to that bride afterwards.

I think this is more on a photographer-photographer basis. Every thing I've seen so far is that the photographer owns the rights to all his photos taken. You're not allowed to do anything w/o written consent from the bride and/or groom with the photos that YOU took?

Jeff_Milo

bmoreshooter wrote:

All photos taken for a wedding are actually property of the Bride that has hired and is paying you for your services. All photos are given to that bride afterwards.

All Photos??? Not in my contract, Mine explicitly states that "All images presented to the CLIENT are chosen at the sole discretion of the artist. CLIENT will not receive every image taken." but thats a subject for a different thread.

As far as the question posed here I completely agree with Scott. Communication and professionalism are the key. You need to talk to the Bride and get her comfort level with having that portion of the day photographed by you, a man. Or even if she wants that part shot at all. I have had a bride that did not want the "getting ready" portion shot at all. The basic understanding we come to is that I will be with her durring the getting ready process through whatever her comfort level is. If the bride does not feel comfortable with me there while she is putting the dress on I will leave the room until she is ready for me to return. Its all about her comfort, and everyone varies so you need to talk to them and find that level, and above all be professional.

Thanks for the voice recorder tip Scott, never thought of that. In the past I have just made sure that I was never alone with the client for the getting dressed shots

Scott_Quier

FlashPhotoBoy wrote:

Thanks for the voice recorder tip Scott, never thought of that. In the past I have just made sure that I was never alone with the client for the getting dressed shots

I don't think I've ever been alone with any of the bridal party. However, I'm a bit cautious (OK ... paranoid ... happy now ). I will never assume honesty will overcome self-interest. In theory, a good voice recording should trump perjury every time.wink I'm just glad I've not yet had to test that theory.

bmoreshooter

FlashPhotoBoy wrote:

All Photos??? Not in my contract, Mine explicitly states that "All images presented to the CLIENT are chosen at the sole discretion of the artist. CLIENT will not receive every image taken." but thats a subject for a different thread.

As far as the question posed here I completely agree with Scott. Communication and professionalism are the key. You need to talk to the Bride and get her comfort level with having that portion of the day photographed by you, a man. Or even if she wants that part shot at all. I have had a bride that did not want the "getting ready" portion shot at all. The basic understanding we come to is that I will be with her durring the getting ready process through whatever her comfort level is. If the bride does not feel comfortable with me there while she is putting the dress on I will leave the room until she is ready for me to return. Its all about her comfort, and everyone varies so you need to talk to them and find that level, and above all be professional.

Thanks for the voice recorder tip Scott, never thought of that. In the past I have just made sure that I was never alone with the client for the getting dressed shots

Although we would all like to think that our contracts are iron clad agreements that protect our rights I think the courts will not necessarily agree. When you are hired to produce a product it becomes the property of the hireing party. A photographer can not own the likeness or image of a client. They can use it with their permission but that does'nt make it theirs. Because of a lot of bad press over the past the legal system tends to favor the client. While we can own the digital file or negative we can not use it without the express consent of the owner. This has been debated on may forums without any real clear answer. It must be decided on a case by case basis. Thank God for our lawyers and the legal system. I think I have strayed from the original post. The question was one of impropriety on the part of the photographer. If you do not go beyond the Brides request and always have someone there with you, you won't get into trouble. Although I agree with Scott that your perception and comfort level with the bride should guide your judgement, there's nothing to stop her or him from changing their mind after the fact. After all "the road to Hell is paved with good intentions"

Ed911

ChatKat wrote:

I never put into my contract any promised quanity of shots, or specific shots. I will go over what I will cover verbally, but, I cannot guarantee that the day will go as the bride plans. I tell the bride and groom that. I wil ldo every thing I can to make it happen if it happens.

If they make a requested shot list I don't want to be the one to administer who is who. I tell them to assign someone who knows the family to round them up because I don't want the responsibility of missing someone that I don't know that is hiding out behind the bushes with the maid of honor.

It frequently changes so much that you can be in big legal trouble if you promise something you can't deliver - even for no fault of your own. Things happen at weddings and you have very little control over the outcome. You can document the day, you can set up and be there. This is why you have two or three camera, extra everything.

But promise something? Nope. What if you have a card that fails? What if you have a weather issue, a car issue and the bride is late? I could make a laundry list of why. What if the FOB or groom is drunk...

You get the idea.

Sage advice...wise one.thumb