Need to fill a hole in my understanding of softproofing

NeilL

I have read a couple of lengthy threads here on the topic of softproofing, but there is still a stubborn gap in my understanding.

Let's say I finish post processing work on an image which I intend to have printed by Bay. I take the image and softproof it against Bay's profile. I see a very small difference in contrast levels.

Now, and I'm afraid I'm going to look stupid by asking, do I click OK and my image is adjusted by the Bay profile, or does OK just mean I am finished with the comparison, and my image has not been altered? In the latter case what does the Cancel button then mean?

I have been supposing that the softproofing dialog was only for information, not for image adjustment. If therefore I saw that my image was going to have less contrast when printed, I went off back into Photoshop and made adjustments, eg in curves, to compensate.

So, what's the difference between OK and Cancel in the softproofing dialog, and am I right that I have to do compensatory adjustments elsewhere in PS?

Thanks.

Neil

jfriend

I'm not sure exactly what dialog you are talking about. If you select View/Proof Setup/Custom and then pick the Bay profile from the list and hit OK, you have configured Soft Proofing to use the Bay profile. You can then turn the soft proofing proofing view on/off with View/Proof Colors.

Once soft proofing is turned on, Photoshop is showing you a simulation of what your image will look like when printed on Bay's printers. If you don't like that simulation, then you should edit your document in Photoshop until you like the simulation. Your document has not been changed just because you turned soft proofing on. It is merely a viewing simulation.

NeilL

jfriend wrote:

I'm not sure exactly what dialog you are talking about. If you select View/Proof Setup/Custom and then pick the Bay profile from the list and hit OK, you have configured Soft Proofing to use the Bay profile. You can then turn the soft proofing proofing view on/off with View/Proof Colors.

Once soft proofing is turned on, Photoshop is showing you a simulation of what your image will look like when printed on Bay's printers. If you don't like that simulation, then you should edit your document in Photoshop until you like the simulation. Your document has not been changed just because you turned soft proofing on. It is merely a viewing simulation.

You hit the nail on the head! Hole and gap filled. I am very grateful. Thanks, John!

Neil

Rhuarc

Ok, so I had a question about this. From my understanding soft proofing is designed so that you can view how your image will look printed on a particular printer, without having to change the base of the image. This is great if I am going to be printing on several printers.

What if I'm going to only be printing on one? Could I just setup my programs to edit using that profile? Or would that then throw off people who view my pictures on the internet using a color calibrated monitor?

I guess the only two printers I will be using is my home Canon inkjet, and smugmug printing. How would I utilize softproofing to take care of these two scenarios?

Thanks!

arodney

Soft proofing is supposed to result in a screen to print match (when everything is properly setup, including proper print viewing by the display) and allow you to edit the image based on what you see to make some adjustments for this device. It of course also allows you to decide what's the best rendering intent.

What you want to do is duplicate the image so you have a "before" view. Turn on the soft proof with simulation check boxes and do very subtle edits on adjustment layers in a attempt to get a bit closer to the original. That's usually a small curves and hue/sat adjustment. Put them in a layer group and name it for the printer/rendering intent and only turn this on for viewing and output to that one device. Make as many as necessary for as many output devices you wish to print to. You can also drag and drop the layer set onto other images, you'll probably get pretty close with those tweaks out of the box, or just update the adjustment layer to taste.

ziggy53

The only thing I would add to this discussion is that "soft proofing" can never perfectly simulate an actual photographic print because monitor technology is so different from print technology.

For accurate print proofing you really must do an actual photographic test print (or proof), created on the printer that the final print will be produced on, with the same paper type, grade and finish, and view that under the same lighting as the final print will be exhibited or viewed.

jfriend

Rhuarc wrote:

Ok, so I had a question about this. From my understanding soft proofing is designed so that you can view how your image will look printed on a particular printer, without having to change the base of the image. This is great if I am going to be printing on several printers.

What if I'm going to only be printing on one? Could I just setup my programs to edit using that profile? Or would that then throw off people who view my pictures on the internet using a color calibrated monitor?

I guess the only two printers I will be using is my home Canon inkjet, and smugmug printing. How would I utilize softproofing to take care of these two scenarios?

Thanks!

Softproofing is to see how your image will look like for ONE particular printer profile. Unless your only output will be to one printer (no other printers and no web display), I would not normally work in the soft proof mode.

If your image does not contain significant colors that are beyond the output capabilities of the printers, then an image that you make look good on a properly calibrated display should generate a pretty good print. If, on the other hand, you have colors in your image that are beyond the output capabilities of your printer, then you may need to adjust those extreme colors in order to take control of how they come out in the printing process for that one printer. The way you would typically do that is by using the soft proofing process to understand what the limitations of the printer are and then bring your image within the boundaries of what the printer can produce so you, rather than the print driver, control how your image is squeezed into the capabilities of the printer.

Since I only print a small percentage of my images and most are for web display, I only use soft proofing on a few of my images and only when I'm making a particularly important print or if I think the image might have some colors that could challenge the capabilities of the printer. In that case, I will soft proof with the actual profile of the destination printer and not worry about any other profiles. If I have to change the image, I either make the changes on a copy of the image or make them on non-destructive adjustment layers that I can turn off in the future if I'm using the image for other purposes.

CynthiaM

Rhuarc wrote:

I guess the only two printers I will be using is my home Canon inkjet, and smugmug printing. How would I utilize softproofing to take care of these two scenarios?

Thanks!

Follow Andrew's advice with regard to setting up a Layer set, with the soft proof turned on for printing. These corrections will help to get the printed image closer to what you see on screen when the soft proof is turned off.

What you upload to smugmug for viewing should have these corrections turned off. Turn on the Canon soft proof corrections when you want to print to your printer at home. If you use smugmug for printing you can download the icc profiles from EZ Print and Bay Photo (the latter requires a smug mug professional account) and use those for soft proofing. With the professional account, you can turn on print delay, then when someone places an order, you upload the soft proof corrected file for printing. The problem with this is that there is only one profile to be used for multiple different paper types. It's probaby not as much of an issue with EZ Prints because these papers are variations of gloss. But Bay Photo has the option to print to a Fine Art paper which is presumably matte. If you want to utilize these printing services you might want to try some test prints for yourself. Do some and allow the printing service to color coorect and some where you turn that off on smugmug and do the soft proof corrections yourself. I tried this with EZ Prints (before professional accounts had the option of using Bay Photo) and while I though that the ones that I had corrected were better (color seemed a little truer, more vibrant), it was not by much.

Hope that helps.

arodney

Rhuarc wrote:

Ok, so I had a question about this. From my understanding soft proofing is designed so that you can view how your image will look printed on a particular printer, without having to change the base of the image.

Maybe, maybe not. That's why you soft proof. And how would you decide what rendering intent to use? Its image specific.

What if I'm going to only be printing on one?

Or or a dozen, doesn't matter. The idea is to see the effect of the print process on a document that isn't in that color space yet.

There's no need to soft proof for the web. Its a big mess considering that most users don't have a calibrated and profiled display and only two web browsers are color managed. YMMV or at least, everyone else's preview may vary.

I guess the only two printers I will be using is my home Canon inkjet, and smugmug printing. How would I utilize softproofing to take care of these two scenarios?

Soft proof for your Canon assuming you have a good profile. Soft proofing for smumug is a waste of time, they don't allow you to use the profile, they demand you funnle the data into sRGB (stupid RGB). We don't know if they use a profile, the rendering intent or if the profile even accurately describes the print conditions. They want you to think they are implementing color management, then cut your legs off in the process by not allowing you to send them the document in an output color space.

arodney

jfriend wrote:

If your image does not contain significant colors that are beyond the output capabilities of the printers, then an image that you make look good on a properly calibrated display should generate a pretty good print.

Well considering that most modern displays produce at least a 800:1 contrast ratio and the most glossy print will be hard pressed to produce anything near 250:1, its got way more to do with just color gamut. Soft proofing can produce a match of the contrast ratio of the print simulated on the display. Real useful unless you want to guess at what the print will look like.

That's all soft proofing is, a predictor of the print.

NeilL

arodney wrote:

only two web browsers are color managed

?...namely...?

Very interesting discussion which makes it clear that to be informed is the only strategy in an imperfect, ie color-un-managed, world! deal

arodney

NeilL wrote:

?...namely...?

Very interesting discussion which makes it clear that to be informed is the only strategy in an imperfect, ie color-un-managed, world! deal

Safari and the latest version of FireFox when you invoke color management**

**Type "about:config" on the address bar on Firefox without the quotes, filter for Color to find the o gfx.color_management.enabled;true (by double clicking on it). Quit and restart the app.

NeilL

arodney wrote:

Safari and the latest version of FireFox when you invoke color management**

**Type "about:config" on the address bar on Firefox without the quotes, filter for Color to find the o gfx.color_management.enabled;true (by double clicking on it). Quit and restart the app.

Many thanks, Andrew!

Rhuarc

arodney wrote:

Safari and the latest version of FireFox when you invoke color management**

**Type "about:config" on the address bar on Firefox without the quotes, filter for Color to find the o gfx.color_management.enabled;true (by double clicking on it). Quit and restart the app.

Very nice! Learn something new every day!