Session protocol questions (or, how'd I get myself into this?!)

divamum

So I think I'm now going to wind up doing an on-the-fly location shoot for some friends for publicity (see my post in accessories about helping out some friends who're launching a small musical company next month).

Realistically, how long can I take to fiddle around with lights and stuff? I'm not talking hours and hours here, but I am certainly NOT at a point where I can turn two knobs while making smalltalk and have everything perfectly set up seemingly effortlessly. I still need to take tests shots, chimp and adjust - I'm relying on the instant feedback of digital rather than experience.

What is a reasonable amount of time to set shots up? It will be on location, so I can't have it all ready to roll like I would if I was at home. Is it reasonable to be a little more methodical even if it takes longer? Are there any misdirection tricks to buy some time without looking like a total doofus?

This is a favour for people who know me as a full-time singer (thus are only too aware that I am NOT a professional photographer!), so in many ways pressure will be low. However, it is for people who are used to professionalism (including my professionalism as a singer) and I don't want to let them or me down by dropping the ball.

I'd love to hear about standard procedures and protocols, what's optimum, what's beyond acceptable etc etc.

Thanks!

sweet caroline

I usually take a fairly casual approach. As long as you keep talking while you make adjustments, they aren't likely to think you don't know what you're doing. Just stay cool! Use a positive approach- instead of saying "this isn't working", say "I think this will work even better".

I set up what I think will work, which may take 5-10 minutes in an outdoor location or 15-20 with my backdrop and everything. I start shooting and adjust as I go. Even if something seems to be looking good, I usually try a few extra shots from different angles and slightly different lighting. It gives me a chance to experiment and learn, and also gives me more to work with later in case I've misjudged based on my LCD.


Caroline

jeffreaux2

I don't know of any "time buying" diversions. I am honest with the folks I am working with, even if it is to a fault. If something doesn't seem right I tell them...."the light here is awfull"....or...."this background isn't working for me". By the same token, I won't beat a dead horse. If I am trying to pull something off that isn't working, Ill give it the ol college try, but will quickly move on if it just isn't happening. For "on-location" shoots, I move very fast from one series of shots to the next yet even then my shoots sometimes go several hours. I usually meet with clients 2 or 3 hours before sundown and ask that they be prepared to work until dark.

If you get stuck, don't be afraid to show them the viewfinder....explaining what you have....vs...what you want to achieve....so that they might understand your vision.....buying patience rather than time.

The best plan is to have some nice spots picked ahead of time to get a handfull of shots "in the bank" before moving to more challenging situations. I almost always try something off the wall when shooting. I usually begin this by explaining to my clients..."I have never done this....but want to try it"....explaining everything from previsualization......through the lighting...depth of field...and what it may or may not contribute to the image. It will get them interested in making the shot a success as well.....but...like I said.....if it just isn't working.......move on.

Scott_Quier

My first thought when I read your post was something along the lines of, "Give me a break. She's got what it takes to make excellent images." But then, I thought some more about it and I understand the butterflys. So, here are the results of my thought process (such as it is...)

Reasonable amount of time or "What's acceptable?" - This is driven more by what you are trying to achieve and the tools with which you are trying to achieve it. A couple of strobes/speedlites with a flash meter will take abit less time to set up than will 3 or 4 lights without a flash meter. You have one or two lights and you are using the histogram of the camera to get some idea of exposure. That will take some time. Let your clients know this.

Mis-direction - I wouldn't worry about it. Your clients know this is a first gig for you. If you manage their expectations appropriately, they'll walk off, get a cuppa, and come back when you are ready for them. This is a favor (you spelled it wrong j/k) for your clients. They know this, they'll give you the time it takes to get the job done right the first time.

Dropping the ball. The only way I can see you dropping the ball is if you let artificial pressure cause you to forget what you have learned these last couple or four weeks. You have the skills, take the time to use them and use them the way you know is right. Don't attempt to take short-cuts; you have developed a method that works for you - don't vary from that. It's when you experiment that you will run into trouble. Shooting for a client is not the time to experiment - unless they have, out of the blue, asked you to do something you've not done before. In that case, tell them (manage their expectations) and get on with the experimentation. The first step is to STOP moving and doing. Visualize the shot in your head and where the light HAS to come from to get the shot. Now, you can start moving.

Focus on the task at hand, not on trying to "keep the clients happy" at that moment - that's a good definition of professionalism.

My final word on this: The clients will be happy when you show them the excellent images we all KNOW you can produce. And, you've proven, over and over again, that you can produce - your postings show it in spades!!!

divamum

You guys are THE BEST. Thank you for chiming in! (And Scott, that may be the biggest confidence booster I've ever had - I'm floored! Thanks for such very kind words)

What y'all are saying is: common sense. Take the time that's needed and if problems emerge, deal with them openly and with the best solutions on hand. Caroline, your take on "manner" is pretty much what I do ALL THE TIME when I'm teaching a voice lesson ie doing what's necessary without actually wasting time, but without letting myself feel rushed. Calm initiative. I guess it must be the teacher in both of us! :giggle.

I'm very excited to shoot at this beeeyoootiful venue but it's going to be a tricky one I suspect - loads of dark wood panelling everywhere, and super high ceilings so I'm still trying to figure out what lighting approach to take since the ceiling is high and walls are mostly dark. I can't wait to go down there and see it in person (I've only seen the brochure shots so far)...

Thanks again. I feel so lucky to have such a talented and generous "support team" steering my efforts!!!

Scott_Quier

divamum wrote:

You guys are THE BEST. Thank you for chiming in! (And Scott, that may be the biggest confidence booster I've ever had - I'm floored! Thanks for such very kind words)

You should know by now that I don't tend to sugar-coat anything. If it stinks, I say so - but I try to be kind about it and offer up ways to improve (if I know of any). If it's good, I say so and I try to be very blunt about it so there's no confusion.

divamum wrote:

What y'all are saying is: common sense. Take the time that's needed and if problems emerge, deal with them openly and with the best solutions on hand. Caroline, your take on "manner" is pretty much what I do ALL THE TIME when I'm teaching a voice lesson ie doing what's necessary without actually wasting time, but without letting myself feel rushed. Calm initiative. I guess it must be the teacher in both of us! :giggle.

I'm very excited to shoot at this beeeyoootiful venue but it's going to be a tricky one I suspect - loads of dark wood panelling everywhere, and super high ceilings so I'm still trying to figure out what lighting approach to take since the ceiling is high and walls are mostly dark. I can't wait to go down there and see it in person (I've only seen the brochure shots so far)...

Sounds like an opportunity to take your daughter along - to hold reflectors and such 'cause you're not going to be able to bounce off the walls and ceilings. How about windows - window light can be particularly beautiful - especially if you can get it coming through a sheer. One rule about using artificial lighting I got from Shay Stephens a couple of years ago might be stated as, "Us it only to solve a problem. If you have no problems, no need to pull out the lights."

divamum wrote:

Thanks again. I feel so lucky to have such a talented and generous "support team" steering my efforts!!!

And, we love you too - but there's a price to be paid - you gotta show us some of the good ones when you get the chance!

Nikolai

I know I'm late for the game and you have already been given all the advice you need, but here's just a few thoughts:

• Plan. You gotta have some ideas in your head, so why don't you try to implement them at home or in your backyard, when there is no time pressure. Write down the settings.
• If my expereince is any indication, a typical makeup sesssion takes *MUCH* longer than setting up a dozen of lights. Simply have them to help each other with the foundation, make a few suggestion to change a couple of things here and there - and you will have all time in the world and soon will start praying they were done already
• As it has been said - you are ready when you are ready. Just don't fidget. "Working fast" means "making slow and certain moves without pauses between them".

Good luck!

divamum

Thanks, Nik. Thankfully NO makeup session required on this one :whew.

I realise in reading everybody's suggestion that really all I need to do is make myself think like the director instead of the performer. Not my favorite role (diva? MOI????!!!??? ), but certainly one I can play when I have to

Now to figure out options for lighting. THAT is gonna be the hard part on this one, I suspect. Btw, has anybody ever acted as their own assistant by framing the shot on a 'pod and then holding their own reflector/boom while triggering the camera with a remote? Is that a completely crazy idea?

And Scott, of COURSE I'll be sharing any good ones (God and Canon willing that there ARE some ) - think y'all think could escape my endless witterings that easiliy?!??!?!?? :nono :lol

Nikolai wrote:

I know I'm late for the game and you have already been given all the advice you need, but here's just a few thoughts:

• Plan. You gotta have some ideas in your head, so why don't you try to implement them at home or in your backyard, when there is no time pressure. Write down the settings.
• If my expereince is any indication, a typical makeup sesssion takes *MUCH* longer than setting up a dozen of lights. Simply have them to help each other with the foundation, make a few suggestion to change a couple of things here and there - and you will have all time in the world and soon will start praying they were done already
• As it has been said - you are ready when you are ready. Just don't fidget. "Working fast" means "making slow and certain moves without pauses between them".

Good luck!

Nikolai

divamum wrote:

Thanks, Nik. Thankfully NO makeup session required on this one :whew.

That, actually, gonna be a serious flaw on your part. Your subjects may think they may not need it but it's your responsibility to tell them they do. Human skin is oily (some more, some less). Foundation is almost always a must (exception: serious overcast).

I realise in reading y'all that I need to make myself think like the director instead of the performer. Not my favorite role (diva? MOI????!!!??? ), but certainly one I can play when I have to

Good thinking!

Now to figure out options for lighting. THAT is gonna be the hard part on this one, I suspect.

Play it simple. Make sure you know the ambient light level. And remember to use gels if you decide to mix your light sources.

sweet caroline

Can you put your reflector on a light stand? I've tried holding one while I shoot, and it's clumsy. I only do that when I'm volunteering at the school. In that case, there's no one to judge my professionalism, and the kids relax when I'm being a little goofy.

Caroline

marikris

I have a question as well after reading the comments above. What light meter do you guys use, if any? I read about the L-608 Super Zoom, but it's way too expensive, and since I'm a novice with it anyway, I thought something less advanced (ergo, cheaper) would do. Any opinions?

PS. Good luck Divamum! I myself volunteered to shoot the fashion club in my college, so your thread was of particular interest to me They want me to do two shoots (of the actual runway show and one of the models posing in the campus) and I'm pretty apprehensive.

Scott_Quier

marikris wrote:

I have a question as well after reading the comments above. What light meter do you guys use, if any? I read about the L-608 Super Zoom, but it's way too expensive, and since I'm a novice with it anyway, I thought something less advanced (ergo, cheaper) would do. Any opinions?

About 2 years ago, Shay Stephens recommended the Sekonic L-358 to me. I got one and couldn't be happier. Here's a quick link to it on B&H.

Nikolai

Scott_Quier wrote:

About 2 years ago, Shay Stephens recommended the Sekonic L-358 to me. I got one and couldn't be happier. Here's a quick link to it on B&H.

Yes he did. But by that time I already owned L-308S Flashmate, which is about $70 cheaper ($189 instead of $259), and it still works for me - 4 years and counting :-)

marikris

Scott_Quier wrote:

About 2 years ago, Shay Stephens recommended the Sekonic L-358 to me. I got one and couldn't be happier. Here's a quick link to it on B&H.

Fabulous! Thanks very much, Scott!

Edit:

Nikolai wrote:

Yes he did. But by that time I already owned L-308S Flashmate, which is about $70 cheaper ($189 instead of $259), and it still works for me - 4 years and counting :-)

Thanks, Nik! Cheap is good imho. I'm still learning after all

Cygnus Studios

Do you know the location of the shoot? If you have the ability to show up before hand to get some test shots in prior to the shoot that will help.
If you can have a "helper" on hand that will be an added benefit.
If none of the above is possible, try setting up your set at your home prior to the shoot. Set up the lights, and do some test shots to get a range to work with. It will shorten the test shots during the actual shoot.

Scott_Quier

Nikolai wrote:

Yes he did. But by that time I already owned L-308S Flashmate, which is about $70 cheaper ($189 instead of $259), and it still works for me - 4 years and counting :-)

You're right - cheaper is better as long as the tool is accurate, consistant, and reliable. And, it sounds like your is. It's all good!

marikris

Scott_Quier wrote:

You're right - cheaper is better as long as the tool is accurate, consistant, and reliable. And, it sounds like your is. It's all good!

Placed the order in Amazon a little while ago. Can't wait next week when it comes!!

divamum

sweet caroline wrote:

Can you put your reflector on a light stand? I've tried holding one while I shoot, and it's clumsy. I only do that when I'm volunteering at the school. In that case, there's no one to judge my professionalism, and the kids relax when I'm being a little goofy.

Caroline

"Light stand"?! Ha. My "light stand" is still my Trekpod with an hotshoe/umbrella holder attached to it. For a reflector holder when I'm at home, I use foamboard clipped to a Wenger music stand with clothespegs

I would only consider holding it myself if I triggered via remote - I can't imagine handholding and also manipulating the reflector...

You raise a good point though - I really am going to have to get a lightstand at some point, so maybe I'll see if I can get an ebay one cheap before this particular shindig. Good thinking, Batgirl

divamum

Cygnus Studios wrote:

Do you know the location of the shoot? If you have the ability to show up before hand to get some test shots in prior to the shoot that will help.
If you can have a "helper" on hand that will be an added benefit.
If none of the above is possible, try setting up your set at your home prior to the shoot. Set up the lights, and do some test shots to get a range to work with. It will shorten the test shots during the actual shoot.

Thanks. The irony is that my "test visit" request was what's turned into this shoot-before-the-shoot So much for planning ahead

However, I did have think of another location where I have free access which has similar wooden walls (same architect, in fact), so I'm going to try and practice there this weekend. It won't be exactly the same, but it will at least alert me to some of the potential problems (I hope!) and give me a chance to practice in what I'm expecting to be a similar environment. It can't hurt, at any rate!

Thanks for the respons

divamum

Nikolai wrote:

That, actually, gonna be a serious flaw on your part. Your subjects may think they may not need it but it's your responsibility to tell them they do. Human skin is oily (some more, some less). Foundation is almost always a must (exception: serious overcast).

Thanks Nik. I 100% agree with you, but in this context I don't think we'll need it - these aren't headshots at all, but a more "environmental" kind of scenario (enterprising-impressario-preparing-for-first-performance-at-the-venue kinda thing). It's also a guy I would ABSOLUTELY insist on makeup if a more stylized/formal portrait was being planned (men as well as gals, even if I wound up doing it for them myself).

That said, I think I need to put together a unisex "emergency" makeup kit for my gear bag with some loose powder, a couple of generic-colour lipsticks and some bronzing pearls. Never hurts to be overprepared on the "just in case" principle

Scott_Quier

divamum wrote:

"Light stand"?! Ha. My "light stand" is still my Trekpod with an hotshoe/umbrella holder attached to it. For a reflector holder when I'm at home, I use foamboard clipped to a Wenger music stand with clothespegs

You already have a self-propelled, voice-activated, carbon-based lightstand. I see it .... errrr her .... in your avitar. That's what kids are for! :lol :lol4 j/k of course. You can't pull her out of school too often for this - people will start to talk!

divamum

Scott_Quier wrote:

You already have a self-propelled, voice-activated, carbon-based lightstand. I see it .... errrr her .... in your avitar. That's what kids are for! :lol :lol4 j/k of course. You can't pull her out of school too often for this - people will start to talk!

rofl rofl