Help with Cloning

canon400d

I did not take this photo. It is my brother in law who is the chief Administrator of Indian River and lives at Vero Beach Florida. My wife wants to frame the photo and she knows I have CS3 and just upgraded to CS4. She wants rid of the guys in the photo and she keeps getting at me thinking I should be able to do it. I have tried and better tried but failed miserably to say the least. I would really appreciate if someone can tell me exactly what to do or by all means have a go and try and get rid of the two guys, my wife would be more than appreciated. As you all know I am still learning in my retirement.
Regards
Bob

JAG

I do not have cs 4 yet (although it is in the near future for me) but I do have pspX2. I figured I would give it a go just for fun since you offered.
I removed the background completely. Cloning is a difficult thing to do because of the multible colors in the background. I also cropped it down and shortened it to exclude the gentlemans hand since Mrs. Bush's hands were cut off. I put a gradient layer in the background. I also did some levels on the people to take the blue cast out of them. I copied and pasted the signature to a new position to minimize the amount background then I added the gradient color to the background of that so it matched the background of the picture.
Since the image you posted was a low res it was caused it to be pixelated when I copied it to psp. But I think you can see the idea of what you can do.

canon400d

JAG wrote:

I do not have cs 4 yet (although it is in the near future for me) but I do have pspX2. I figured I would give it a go just for fun since you offered.
I removed the background completely. Cloning is a difficult thing to do because of the multible colors in the background. I also cropped it down and shortened it to exclude the gentlemans hand since Mrs. Bush's hands were cut off. I put a gradient layer in the background. I also did some levels on the people to take the blue cast out of them. I copied and pasted the signature to a new position to minimize the amount background then I added the gradient color to the background of that so it matched the background of the picture.
Since the image you posted was a low res it was caused it to be pixelated when I copied it to psp. But I think you can see the idea of what you can do.

Thanks ever so much and my wife Jan really appreciates what you have done. She is so pleased. I will try myself and follow your steps but I think once again I will not win.
Regards
Bob

JAG

Your welcome Bob. I am sure you can do this. Just take your lasso selection tool and go around the people (leaving a small amount of background) then copy and paste to a new raster image layer. Next zoom in close and remove any remainder background around them with the eraser tool (this takes some time) then add another layer and pick your background color. The hardest part is the erasing..so be sure to zoom in. Good luck. Its all in a matter of practice.

TonyCooper

Jag has done a great job and you don't need more help with this. However, cloning is not the only way, or always the best way, to solve a problem like this. If you have a book on CS4 or CS4, read up on the Layer Mask and the Quick Mask.

If you duplicate the original layer, add a blank layer between the original and the duplicate, turn off the eye in the original, and make the duplicate layer a layer mask, you can non-destructively paint out what you don't want on the duplicate layer. After you've painted out what you don't want, fill the blank layer with a solid color or a gradient or even a background from some other image. This will show through as your new background.

The advantage of the layer mask or Quick Mask over the clone tool or the eraser is that if you make a mistake you can hit the x key and your brush will paint that area back in the way it was.


Cloning is really for small changes where you have, say, a light switch on the wall you don't want to keep in the image. Major background changes are done best with layer masks or the Quick Mask.

Ric Grupe

TonyCooper wrote:

Jag has done a great job and you don't need more help with this. However, cloning is not the only way, or always the best way, to solve a problem like this. If you have a book on CS4 or CS4, read up on the Layer Mask and the Quick Mask.

If you duplicate the original layer, add a blank layer between the original and the duplicate, turn off the eye in the original, and make the duplicate layer a layer mask, you can non-destructively paint out what you don't want on the duplicate layer. After you've painted out what you don't want, fill the blank layer with a solid color or a gradient or even a background from some other image. This will show through as your new background.

The advantage of the layer mask or Quick Mask over the clone tool or the eraser is that if you make a mistake you can hit the x key and your brush will paint that area back in the way it was.


Cloning is really for small changes where you have, say, a light switch on the wall you don't want to keep in the image. Major background changes are done best with layer masks or the Quick Mask.

This may sound more complicated...but is really very easy and a much faster way to eliminate unwanted backgrounds.

canon400d

TonyCooper wrote:

Jag has done a great job and you don't need more help with this. However, cloning is not the only way, or always the best way, to solve a problem like this. If you have a book on CS4 or CS4, read up on the Layer Mask and the Quick Mask.

If you duplicate the original layer, add a blank layer between the original and the duplicate, turn off the eye in the original, and make the duplicate layer a layer mask, you can non-destructively paint out what you don't want on the duplicate layer. After you've painted out what you don't want, fill the blank layer with a solid color or a gradient or even a background from some other image. This will show through as your new background.

The advantage of the layer mask or Quick Mask over the clone tool or the eraser is that if you make a mistake you can hit the x key and your brush will paint that area back in the way it was.


Cloning is really for small changes where you have, say, a light switch on the wall you don't want to keep in the image. Major background changes are done best with layer masks or the Quick Mask.

Thanks Tony I appreciate your help. I will have a go with CS4 again and see how I get on.
Regards
Bob

pathfinder

No cloning needed here Bob. I wrote about changing backgrounds here - http://www.digitalgrin.com/showthread.php?t=116223

You can just select the gentleman with Mrs. Bush and move them to a new white background, or after selecting them, invert the selection, and paint the perimeter white, gray, black, or clone in a new background.

canon400d

pathfinder wrote:

No cloning needed here Bob. I wrote about changing backgrounds here - http://www.digitalgrin.com/showthread.php?t=116223

You can just select the gentleman with Mrs. Bush and move them to a new white background, or after selecting them, invert the selection, and paint the perimeter white, gray, black, or clone in a new background.

That is great Pathfinder you have come to my rescue once more for which I am truly greatful.
Thanks
Bob

pathfinder

You're quite welcome!

canon400d

pathfinder wrote:

You're quite welcome!

Hi Pathfinder,
I have looked at http://www.digitalgrin.com/showthread.php?t=116223 and when I attempt to paint over the gentleman with Mrs Bush I just cannot control the marching ants they appear in places where I have never painted. Is there any other way I can move the two persons onto a background colour.
Regards
Bob

pathfinder

Bob, you can use any of the selection tools that you favor, but the Quick Selection tool is, by far, the fastest and easiest for me - usually. The size of the brush you use for the Quick Selection tool determines how extensive the selection is, so try a smaller brush. Areas that get selected inadvertently, can be deselected by holding down the option ( alt ) Key while painting outside the selected area with the Quick Selection brush.

Try again with a smaller brush, and paint over areas not desired with the alt( Option on a Mac) key held down and see if this does not help. I sometimes use the Quick Selection tool in a single click mode rather than painting to limit how extensive an area it picks up as well.

canon400d

pathfinder wrote:

Bob, you can use any of the selection tools that you favor, but the Quick Selection tool is, by far, the fastest and easiest for me - usually. The size of the brush you use for the Quick Selection tool determines how extensive the selection is, so try a smaller brush. Areas that get selected inadvertently, can be deselected by holding down the option ( alt ) Key while painting outside the selected area with the Quick Selection brush.

Try again with a smaller brush, and paint over areas not desired with the alt( Option on a Mac) key held down and see if this does not help. I sometimes use the Quick Selection tool in a single click mode rather than painting to limit how extensive an area it picks up as well.

Hey Pathfinder. Yesssss I have done as you have said and it works a treat.
Thanks once again.
Bob

pathfinder

canon400d

pathfinder wrote:

After I have used the Quick Selection tool and then used the 'Refine Edge' and for example showing a black back ground. How can I save this. I find when I go to file and save as is not highlighted to use.When I click OK on the Refine Edge it returns to the original.
Regards
Bob

pathfinder

No need to save the Refine Edge parameters.

Just click OK to the Refine edges command, and when the dancing ants appear outlining your selection, save your selection as an alpha channel, by Image > Selection > Save ( I may have to check the commands as I do not have a copy of PS on this computer right now)

Once you have saved your selection as an alpha channel it will show up in the channels palette, and it can be reloaded as often as needed, and it is saved in a tiff file. Saving as a jpg will discard all alpha channels.

canon400d

pathfinder wrote:

No need to save the Refine Edge parameters.

Just click OK to the Refine edges command, and when the dancing ants appear outlining your selection, save your selection as an alpha channel, by Image > Selection > Save ( I may have to check the commands as I do not have a copy of PS on this computer right now)

Once you have saved your selection as an alpha channel it will show up in the channels palette, and it can be reloaded as often as needed, and it is saved in a tiff file. Saving as a jpg will discard all alpha channels.

Mmmmmm Pathfinder, Clicked OK in Refine Image and the marching ants appeared. I couldn't find an Alpha Channel. I am on CS4. I also looked under the Image tab and there isn't a Select > Save either. I apologise for the inconvenience I am causing.
Regards
Bob

pathfinder

Sorry, Bob, as I said, my commands were from my failing memory.

Actually, now that I am at home and have CS4 open in front of me, when you have your selection highlighted with marching ants, the command sequence is Selection> Save Selection - which opens a new dialogue box for a name, and you want the box for a new channel checked, as seen below

canon400d

pathfinder wrote:

Sorry, Bob, as I said, my commands were from my failing memory.

Actually, now that I am at home and have CS4 open in front of me, when you have your selection highlighted with marching ants, the command sequence is Selection> Save Selection - which opens a new dialogue box for a name, and you want the box for a new channel checked, as seen below

Thanks Pathfinder I know how the Save selection works. My memory often fails me too I put mine down to old age.
Regards
Bob

canon400d

canon400d wrote:

Thanks Pathfinder I know how the Save selection works. My memory often fails me too I put mine down to old age.
Regards
Bob

Another wee problem Pathfinder: Now turn off the upper layer, by clicking on the top eyeball ( the eyeball disappears ), and you will only see the lower two layers. Use a Gaussian Blur of about 30 pixels and you will see this,( because the sharply outlined selection on the top layer is currently not visible because we turned it off by clicking on the eyeball).
I have done the above which I can follow perfectly and when I go to Blur - for Gaussian Blur none of them are highlighted. I have tried the same sequence on CS3 and it does the same. Strange, any ideas? I am almost there, and made another achievement with your step by step help which I really appreciate.
Regards
Bob

pathfinder

Not sure what you are trying to blur here, exactly, Bob. The border of the selection, or the mask itself?

You can blur the border of the selection with the Refine Edges command, but to run a Gaussian blur on the mask itself, you must open the Channels palette (after saving the alpha channel), turn off the eyeballs on everything but the alpha channel itself, and then run the GB on the remaining B&W image of the alpha channel itself.

Once you have blurred the alpha channel you can then save the newer mask as a second alpha channel and delete the earlier, non-blurred version.

I just find the Refine Edges command so much easier to do, that I usually do not work on the mask itself unless I need a complex mask with sharp borders on part of it and blurred borders on other parts of it that I cannot fabricate with a simple Refine Edges command.

You can see the mack with the Quick Mask command also, and just paint right on the Quick Mask with your paint brush directly using black to add to the mask or white to delete from it, or gray to add a smooth gradient to the mask.

canon400d

pathfinder wrote:

Not sure what you are trying to blur here, exactly, Bob. The border of the selection, or the mask itself?

You can blur the border of the selection with the Refine Edges command, but to run a Gaussian blur on the mask itself, you must open the Channels palette (after saving the alpha channel), turn off the eyeballs on everything but the alpha channel itself, and then run the GB on the remaining B&W image of the alpha channel itself.

Once you have blurred the alpha channel you can then save the newer mask as a second alpha channel and delete the earlier, non-blurred version.

I just find the Refine Edges command so much easier to do, that I usually do not work on the mask itself unless I need a complex mask with sharp borders on part of it and blurred borders on other parts of it that I cannot fabricate with a simple Refine Edges command.

You can see the mack with the Quick Mask command also, and just paint right on the Quick Mask with your paint brush directly using black to add to the mask or white to delete from it, or gray to add a smooth gradient to the mask.

I was wanting to blur the background Pathfinder. When I deleted the Alpha Channel 1. I found that the GB had blurred out the subject and not the background. I know now where I was going wrong with the Save Selection.
Regards
Bob