company bounced a check and won't pay me

com3

i didn't know where to post this, so i decided to post it here...

i did a shoot on nov 22nd, 2008 for company party. it was just a little 3 hour gig, so i charged em $450. a day or 2 later, i deposited the check they handed to me that night.

skip forward about a week, and suddenly my bank account is $485 less than i expected... returned check for non sufficient funds...plus a $35 returned check fee dinged to my account.

i contacted them via telephone and was told they would issue out another check... i waited a few weeks, then contacted them again...sent to voicemail.

on january 22nd, 2009, i sent them (including the owner of the company) a formal email with an attached invoice stating the $485 was due by february 7th, 2009. i have never recieved word back from them, nor my money...

what do you do in this kinda situation? i had to rent equipment for the shoot (in the sum of about $165) plus i brought a 2nd photog with me that i paid $100. i'm in the hole for $300 for that shoot including the returned check fee....

any advice? thanks everyone!

poker

Small claims court.....bring as much proof as possible that state monetary figures. It's also an opportuntiy to add cost that have incurred like the bounce check fee.

Sorry for the hassle.....go get them!

dogwood

Small Claims Court. And remind the company that if they lose, they'll have to pay the court fees as well (usually several hundred dollars).

I would also notify your state attorney general and ask them for advice. Sounds like you were ripped off.

Also, do you have a usage agreement? Depending on this, you can also sue the company for copyright violation if they use your images. At this point, you should also charge them a late payment fee and start to look into debt collection agencies.

Trust me-- if you were the one that didn't pay the company, they'd be doing the same thing to you!

Art Scott

Do not forget the interest that acrues on this type of account.....in this area it like 1%/mo.....doesn't sound like much but it can addup whne tossed in the pot with everything else.........You do not work for this company in any other fashion do you??? It is not your regular employer is it??:D

com3

Art Scott wrote:

Do not forget the interest that acrues on this type of account.....in this area it like 1%/mo.....doesn't sound like much but it can addup whne tossed in the pot with everything else.........You do not work for this company in any other fashion do you??? It is not your regular employer is it??:D

no, not regular employer.

ChatKat

District Attorney
In Los Angeles - and probably Sacramento - the District Attorney has a bad check department. It's a criminal offense to issue a check that is NSF.

You can do a couple things besides small claims:

1. Take the check to their bank. If the account is open, you might get lucky and they will pay you and cash the check for you.

2. You can take the check to your bank and ask them to "send it for collection' - that means the check will go to the bank via a hand payment route and if the money shows up in a 10 day period of time, they will send a bank draft for the money. There is a charge for this.

3. Write a letter and send it certified mail and a copy regular mail. Tell them in the letter you will take legal action - otherwise you cannot go to small claims without proof of trying to collect - it's called a demand letter.

4. Go in person to the business and make a pest of your self.

5. File a bad check report with the police department. It's fraud to issue a bad check and there is a limit. You might be surprised by this.

The likelyhood you will collect is not great. Hopefully you can prevail.

bob swanson

For new accounts I generally get payment in advance or on delivery of my images just for this reason. Also record any dialogue, befor and after with the people (employees) you've dealt with. Gooood luck. bsvirginian

ChatKat wrote:

In Los Angeles - and probably Sacramento - the District Attorney has a bad check department. It's a criminal offense to issue a check that is NSF.

You can do a couple things besides small claims:

1. Take the check to their bank. If the account is open, you might get lucky and they will pay you and cash the check for you.

2. You can take the check to your bank and ask them to "send it for collection' - that means the check will go to the bank via a hand payment route and if the money shows up in a 10 day period of time, they will send a bank draft for the money. There is a charge for this.

3. Write a letter and send it certified mail and a copy regular mail. Tell them in the letter you will take legal action - otherwise you cannot go to small claims without proof of trying to collect - it's called a demand letter.

4. Go in person to the business and make a pest of your self.

5. File a bad check report with the police department. It's fraud to issue a bad check and there is a limit. You might be surprised by this.

The likelyhood you will collect is not great. Hopefully you can prevail.

xris

These things happen far more often than you might think. And there are a lot of folks that take advantage of unsuspecting folks in just this way.:fish

For a new account a deposit is always the way to go. (If they refuse partial payment you're probably better off without them.)

An assignment memo or contract would also help with both collections and criminal proceedings.

In our small claims court you are NOT allowed interest unless the rate AND the fact that it will be charged is agreed to IN WRITING beforehand. This is why most folks add the little "interest will be charged at 2 percent per month..." blub on the bottom of each invoice. (Court directed interest in roughly 4 percent per year and normally applies only after judgement! That won't even cover the cost of collections!!!)

It is possible this is a client that it used to doing such things because, in part, no one reports them. If this IS fraud -- which it could well be -- you may well never see the cash. But reporting it is important so there is an official paper trail that may save others from the same fate.:rambo

Don't forget to claim the bad debt against your income.:D

Angelo

Here are two links I got, after two minutes on google, that pertain specifically to your issue. Now get to work and go after your money.



http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/smallclaims/

http://www.sacda.org/bc/

Kinkajou

as someone working for a company in which things are really really tight right now... you might make progress with them (assuming you can actually get in touch with them, but even via voicemail) if you offer to break up the payment or ask for a 'good faith' payment to start.

those people that bug us and bug us tend to get put on hold, those who are understanding of cash flow issues (our clients don't pay us, so we don't have money to pay our vendors) tend to get bumped up in the system. it's not that we don't plan to pay things off eventually, but it's just soooo tight that we have to make very tough choices every day.

try to work with them a little before threatening small claims court. if you do threaten them, they'll pay you, but it won't be pretty and they won't recommend you to others. i don't know if that matters to you at this point, but it's just a thought.

Angelo

Kinkajou wrote:

as someone working for a company in which things are really really tight right now... you might make progress with them (assuming you can actually get in touch with them, but even via voicemail) if you offer to break up the payment or ask for a 'good faith' payment to start.

those people that bug us and bug us tend to get put on hold, those who are understanding of cash flow issues (our clients don't pay us, so we don't have money to pay our vendors) tend to get bumped up in the system. it's not that we don't plan to pay things off eventually, but it's just soooo tight that we have to make very tough choices every day.

try to work with them a little before threatening small claims court. if you do threaten them, they'll pay you, but it won't be pretty and they won't recommend you to others. i don't know if that matters to you at this point, but it's just a thought.

let's see. they issued him a bum check back in November. He contacts them and is told a replacement check will be issued which never is. He tries three more times to reach them with no luck; no return calls; nothing!

How does one suggest a "good faith payment" and offer to "work with them" if he can't reach anyone with whom he can negotiate?

I too work at a firm suffering cash flow problems in this horrible economy but every single one of our vendors receive regular telephone calls or email messages to update them on payment schedules.

One very good reason for the OP to file a small claims case is to put him on-record as a creditor should this company be facing bankruptcy or worse.

To date it appears he has no standing because he's relied solely on unreliable email communication.

COM3 - you'd better get your butt in gear and find out if this company's doors are even open any longer and take steps to make your payment demand more formal than an email or voicemail message.

.

com3

Angelo wrote:

Here are two links I got, after two minutes on google, that pertain specifically to your issue. Now get to work and go after your money.



http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/smallclaims/

http://www.sacda.org/bc/

huh... according to the sacda website, i'm inelligible due to the check not being issued in sac county, it's more than 60 days old, AND it needs to have been submitted twice... how do you resubmit a check that's been declined for NSF?

com3

Angelo wrote:

COM3 - you'd better get your butt in gear and find out if this company's doors are even open any longer and take steps to make your payment demand more formal than an email or voicemail message.
.

yeah, their doors are definately open...it's not like it's some small profile biz either... and when i sent the formal email with attached bill, i cc'd it to their Chief Operating Officer, their marketing manager, and to the owner himself...


anyhow, i wrote one final letter just now...obviously, the names have been changed...

Dear Mr. ASDF:

Please be advised that ASDF owes me the sum of $485.00 because
of a bad check (NSF check) that was written and failed to clear my
bank account.

This will be ASDF's last chance to settle this matter before I
file suit against ASDF in Small Claims Court. I am agreeable
to a lump sum payment. Please contact me on or before March 7, 2009
for purposes of settling this matter. If I do not hear from ASDF
on or before March 7, 2009, I will file a lawsuit against ASDF
without further notice. It is in ASDF's best interest
to settle this matter before a lawsuit is filed. If a judgment is
obtained against ASDF, it will negatively affect ASDF's
ability to get credit, ASDF will be ordered to pay court costs,
and ASDF will incur interest at a rate of 10% per annum.

Based on the foregoing, I expect payment in the amount of $485.00 made
payable to me, 12345 ASDF Ct, Sacramento CA, 95835 no later than March
7, 2009. (I can be reached at: (Telephone: 123-123-1234).) If ASDF
decides to ignore this demand for payment, I will further
pursue all of its legal remedies without further notice to ASDF
. This email serves as evidence that I have attempted to
resolve this matter informally.

Sincerely,

ME.

Angelo

com3 wrote:

huh... according to the sacda website, i'm inelligible due to the check not being issued in sac county, it's more than 60 days old, AND it needs to have been submitted twice... how do you resubmit a check that's been declined for NSF?

a) how would I possibly know the check was not issued in Sacramento County? You never mentioned geographic area but your avatar location is Sacramento so I went with that. A little sweat equity on your part would find the proper county using google or the state website.

b) 60 day limit? well if that's the case, sorry; you should 've acted sooner.

c) if you go back and read ChatKat's advice (post #6) you'll understand how to resubmit.

COM3 - if you're going to ask for help then please follow along with all the great, free advice other members are too willing to offer you.

.

MichaelKirk

thoughts
Didn't even read the thread but you worked for around $35-40 and hour for this gig?? Plus now you have to deal with non-payment. Kind of makes you think twice. In fact even if you collect, I bet your 2nd shooter ends up making more money on this gig than you do as the primary shooter - not supposed to work this way!

$450 less $165 for the rental equipment less $100 for the 2nd shooter = $185. 3 hours shooting, probably another 2+ hours in travel time to and from the shoot, picking up and returning equipment plus PP time and getting the images sent to the client = ~another 2 hours.
So $185 / 5 hours = $37.00????

Just a thought,
Michael


Oh and to answer your original question - Small claims court, but first send a registered letter requesting the payment of $450 + the returned check fee of $35 plus a late payment charge of $35 per month plus what ever other charges you can think of to add to the bill. If is is taken to small claims court, you'll want to try and collect as much as possible. Plus what others have mentioned, if they are using your images right now withoy making a payment. Send an immediate cease and desist letter (again registered mail only) with a specified date your phhotos must be removed. That very next date - if you can find your images still being used, gget copies, screen prints, etc and now you have a copy right infringement case = $

com3

Angelo wrote:

a) how would I possibly know the check was not issued in Sacramento County? You never mentioned geographic area but your avatar location is Sacramento so I went with that. A little sweat equity on your part would find the proper county using google or the state website.

b) 60 day limit? well if that's the case, sorry; you should 've acted sooner.

c) if you go back and read ChatKat's advice (post #6) you'll understand how to resubmit.

COM3 - if you're going to ask for help then please follow along with all the great, free advice other members are too willing to offer you.

.

uh.... hello? i am.

a) you know now, cause i just explained that.

b) you're probably right...i'm just one of those "in good faith" kinda guys.

c) the bank didn't give ME the check back. do they ever give the checks to the person that cashed it? as far as i know, they give the check back to the issuer, not the receiver, no? that's why i was asking how do you REsubmit a bad check? i've never written a bad check before either, so i don't know the process.

i wasn't argueing against your points, dude... i was stating a few facts that may have previously been unclear to perhaps gain more detailed knowledge from those of you who may have been there, done that.

thanks for your guys' answers, btw. it's been a big help. i had no idea that writing a bad check was even against the law.

takeflightphoto

tips
#1...never use email for stuff like this. Certified letter, signature proof of delivery.
#2...your bank presented the check for payment to their bank...if it was NSF, of course your bank has it. Go talk to them. In fact, go talk to the branch manager where you bank...enlist their help in this.
#3...don't worry about them not recommending YOU...they should be worried about vendors not selling to them...if they have cash flow problems, they shouldn't be spending beyond their means, including hiring photographers...but, then, what do you expect given the state of the nation?

Good luck.

com3 wrote:

uh.... hello? i am.

a) you know now, cause i just explained that.

b) you're probably right...i'm just one of those "in good faith" kinda guys.

c) the bank didn't give ME the check back. do they ever give the checks to the person that cashed it? as far as i know, they give the check back to the issuer, not the receiver, no? that's why i was asking how do you REsubmit a bad check? i've never written a bad check before either, so i don't know the process.

i wasn't argueing against your points, dude... i was stating a few facts that may have previously been unclear to perhaps gain more detailed knowledge from those of you who may have been there, done that.

thanks for your guys' answers, btw. it's been a big help. i had no idea that writing a bad check was even against the law.

ChatKat

com3 wrote:

huh... according to the sacda website, i'm inelligible due to the check not being issued in sac county, it's more than 60 days old, AND it needs to have been submitted twice... how do you resubmit a check that's been declined for NSF?

I gave you that info - send it via your bank for the process called "Send for Collection".

com3

ChatKat wrote:

I gave you that info - send it via your bank for the process called "Send for Collection".

that's my question...and i'm mildly retarded, so please help; definte "it." what is "it" that i should send? i have nothing in my posession.

ChatKat

com3 wrote:

that's my question...and i'm mildly retarded, so please help; definte "it." what is "it" that i should send? i have nothing in my posession.

The bank returns checks that are NSF to the person who the check was payable so that they can take collection action. Where is the original check?

When you have that , you can take it to your bank and they will "hand send" it to the bank and the bank it was written on will hold it until the money is there to pay it or they will send it back at the end of the hold period as uncollectable. Usually it gets held for 10 days at the bank. You get copies and receipts of the transaction.

com3

ChatKat wrote:

The bank returns checks that are NSF to the person who the check was payable so that they can take collection action. Where is the original check?

When you have that , you can take it to your bank and they will "hand send" it to the bank and the bank it was written on will hold it until the money is there to pay it or they will send it back at the end of the hold period as uncollectable. Usually it gets held for 10 days at the bank. You get copies and receipts of the transaction.

oh, i see! therein the problem lays...i never received the NSF check... hrm...maybe my bank has it? i'll check tomorrow.

thanks a bunch for your guys' help!

entropysedge

If your bank is anything like mine, they mail you a scan of the original check, front and back with the notice that it was returned NFS. That scan can be resubmitted as if it was the actual check.

Blaker

com3 wrote:

anyhow, i wrote one final letter just now...obviously, the names have been changed...

Like everyone else has said, STOP EMAILING and send them a registered/certified letter so that they have to sign for it!

vnvnvn2000

You were treated. There's no way to find out the treater, immediately.

goldenstarphoto

Com3, whatever happened to this situation? Did they ever pay?

com3

nope, they didn't. lost cause. lesson learned.

ian408

Start by writing them a demand for payment letter. You're in CA so you can legally ask for 3 times the face value of the check--I would start with the letter. And I would ask for 3x the amount. Send it registered mail so you have proof.

If they choose to ignore the letter, that will be your ticket to small claims court.

Good luck.

JimM

Well, who were they so at least you can bad mouth them a bit on the Internet?

com3

JimM wrote:

Well, who were they so at least you can bad mouth them a bit on the Internet?

hehe. MOD edit (deleted)

goldenstarphoto

That's a little ironic.....a financial group that can't pay their debts.

Angelo

JimM wrote:

Well, who were they so at least you can bad mouth them a bit on the Internet?

let's not!