Urgh! I hate lighting!!! Trying with my daughter

WingsOfLovePhoto · February 27, 2009

Still trying to get the lighting thing right! I searched short lighting, watched videos and still don't think I get the concept :pissed I have bought 2 books and looked at more portraits than I'd like to think. My 20 year old daughter finally decided to pose for me but it was late at night after I had spent 1 hour with a family of 4 kids under 6 trying to get a portrait of them together... now that was frustrating! Here are a few of what I got of her. C/C welcomed as always...

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

Sam · February 27, 2009

These are great. Of course it never hurts to have a gorgeous subject.

My favorites are #4, and #8

Sam

Agnieszka · February 27, 2009

Are you kidding? Not sure what you were going for, but these are AWESOME!!!!

Oh my!!!

If anything, I dodge her left eye in #1, I think it needs some contrast ...

#2 is beauuuutiful!!! I would have positioned her hand in a different way, but light wise it's gorgeous, and she looks stunning!

#3 is beautiful too, again, I would maybe just dodge a bit the top right corner (+ hair). Maybe a little vignette?

#4 Again, beautiful shot. (same thing with the hand, I think it looks a bit awkward / in this shot I would actually even think about taking her right hand out)

#5 STUUUUNNNNING! Again, a bit more contrast on the top right / darken the background, but what a shot!

#6 PERFECT

heatherfeather · February 27, 2009

Geesh if I had lighting results like that I would love it!

You should share what you did so all of us lesser mortals can learn from your learning. Those first 3 are simply amazing!

Trevlan · February 27, 2009

I don't understand what's wrong with these. I would literally kick a horse in the face to have shots like these. The only one that looks underexposed to me is #4, and it's probably because of the POS laptop I'm on.

#6 is my absolute favorite. She looks like Allysa Milano. Gorgeous daughter.

Nikolai · February 27, 2009

Lovely portraits of a beautiful young lady!

Blurmore · February 27, 2009

I think what you are showing here is very nice. If your frustration is with dimensional light I can see how you are frustrated. Most of these (all but 7 & 8) are broad lit, meaning the main light is hitting the larger side of the face. 7, 8 & 4 are short lit, shadow on the larger side of the face. Traditionally only kids and men, and VERY skinny girls are broad lit of flat lit. But this tradition is almost dead. Short light makes people look thinner, it thins the face, your daughter doesn't need it. Short light can hide a big nose. 2 is almost perfect (but broad lit). If the hair shadows are bothering you, try flattening the light a little (bring the light source closer to the camera position) you'll lose some dimension but probably kill the hair shadow. 8 looks like the light position was not right either 2 low or bounced, there aren't a lot of highlights in her eyes. It also looks like these were shot with a LARGE rectangular soft box. These are great tools, but they leave HUGE catchlights, you might want to paint them down till they only fill 10-15% of the pupil area. Bigger the light source bigger the catchlight. It also looks like you are using a single light (and background light), and maybe a reflector, adding a second fill flash at 1/4 power of the key will help kill those hair shadows so will placing the reflector closer to the subject. You are doing very well, these all look great...just expiriment to change the things you don't like.

Swartzy · February 27, 2009

They are beautiful! Try this Sandy....do you see how you had your key light (main) camera right?....do you see how your daughter was facing....camera left? Have your subject aim their upper torso towards the light source, throw a reflector on the other side....have them turn their head slightly looking at the camera. These are very pretty but turning your subject around or move your key to the other side will change the look as in #8 & 9.

Cygnus Studios · February 27, 2009

Not sure what you are complaining about here. I have to agree with everyone, #4 rocks. #7 and #8 are also very good.
There are a couple that the light in the eye is a tad over powering, but nothing that couldn't be ignored.
The posing is very nice, and the overall appeal is great.

Elaine · February 27, 2009

Whew, is she gorgeous, or what?! I would be hootin' and hollerin' if I achieved this lighting, especially 5 and 6...and 1 and 2 (although I'd try to change the hand placement on 2).

And I am still cracking up over Frank's statement...I would literally kick a horse in the face to have shots like these.

WingsOfLovePhoto · February 27, 2009

Agnieszka wrote:

Are you kidding? Not sure what you were going for, but these are AWESOME!!!! Oh my!!!

If anything, I dodge her left eye in #1, I think it needs some contrast ...

#2 is beauuuutiful!!! I would have positioned her hand in a different way, but light wise it's gorgeous, and she looks stunning!

#3 is beautiful too, again, I would maybe just dodge a bit the top right corner (+ hair). Maybe a little vignette?

#4 Again, beautiful shot. (same thing with the hand, I think it looks a bit awkward / in this shot I would actually even think about taking her right hand out)

#5 STUUUUNNNNING! Again, a bit more contrast on the top right / darken the background, but what a shot!

#6 PERFECT

Thanks for the play by play Angie! I'm gonna give it a try:D

Geesh if I had lighting results like that I would love it!

You should share what you did so all of us lesser mortals can learn from your learning. Those first 3 are simply amazing!

Heather!!! you are a superior mortal to me! Your photo's are amazing! The difference is I am stuck in the studio cause I am a wimp and won't go out in the cold like you! Thanks for the compliments!

I don't understand what's wrong with these. I would literally kick a horse in the face to have shots like these. The only one that looks underexposed to me is #4, and it's probably because of the POS laptop I'm on.

#6 is my absolute favorite. She looks like Allysa Milano. Gorgeous daughter.

Oh Frank please don't kick one of those nice horses in Central Park on my account :cry What's wrong with them is the broad lighting that is mentioned by someone else...just not getting it! The one that looks underexposed was actually well exposed but when I went to put the vignette around it using multiply, my daughter liked it that way so I just decreased the opacity a little. And yes...she has been known to look like Alyssa Milano or even the other girl from the show Charmed. Thanks for commenting

WingsOfLovePhoto · February 27, 2009

Blurmore wrote:

I think what you are showing here is very nice. If your frustration is with dimensional light I can see how you are frustrated. Most of these (all but 7 & 8) are broad lit, meaning the main light is hitting the larger side of the face. 7, 8 & 4 are short lit, shadow on the larger side of the face. Traditionally only kids and men, and VERY skinny girls are broad lit of flat lit. But this tradition is almost dead. Short light makes people look thinner, it thins the face, your daughter doesn't need it. Short light can hide a big nose. 2 is almost perfect (but broad lit). If the hair shadows are bothering you, try flattening the light a little (bring the light source closer to the camera position) you'll lose some dimension but probably kill the hair shadow. 8 looks like the light position was not right either 2 low or bounced, there aren't a lot of highlights in her eyes. It also looks like these were shot with a LARGE rectangular soft box. These are great tools, but they leave HUGE catchlights, you might want to paint them down till they only fill 10-15% of the pupil area. Bigger the light source bigger the catchlight. It also looks like you are using a single light (and background light), and maybe a reflector, adding a second fill flash at 1/4 power of the key will help kill those hair shadows so will placing the reflector closer to the subject. You are doing very well, these all look great...just expiriment to change the things you don't like.

Thanks so much for the advice. I am working on the broad lighting thing but not grasping it. You and Swartzy wanna come to Poughkeepsie and show me? I was actually using 3 lights and a reflector. 1 background light, one hair light, a 3x4 ft softbox and a reflector. Maybe now that my daughter saw these pictures she will want to pose again for me.

They are beautiful! Try this Sandy....do you see how you had your key light (main) camera right?....do you see how your daughter was facing....camera left? Have your subject aim their upper torso towards the light source, throw a reflector on the other side....have them turn their head slightly looking at the camera. These are very pretty but turning your subject around or move your key to the other side will change the look as in #8 & 9.

Thanks Swartzy, I am going to give it a try.... the strange thing is I was watching youtube video's on short lighting and the guy had the model with ther shoulders the opposite way and just kept saying remember....chin to the light. I was trying to get what that meant..... but didn't do very good. I am going to have to move my lights to the opposite sides to see if that helps my dyslexia

And next time I will have my lighting book open and try all of the different lighting styles that are laid out there.

Lovely portraits of a beautiful young lady!

Thanks Nikolai! Coming from you that means alot!

Melissa49 · February 27, 2009

I think they are lovely. My favorites are 4, 5 & 7.

WingsOfLovePhoto · February 27, 2009

Cygnus Studios wrote:

Not sure what you are complaining about here. I have to agree with everyone, #4 rocks. #7 and #8 are also very good.
There are a couple that the light in the eye is a tad over powering, but nothing that couldn't be ignored.
The posing is very nice, and the overall appeal is great.

Thanks for the comment! I am trying not to complain, I just have no confidence yet. Thats why I keep trying! I think I will get it someday! I think the catch light thing was my fault. Was trying to brighten the eyes like someone had instructed me to. Maybe I over did it

Whew, is she gorgeous, or what?! I would be hootin' and hollerin' if I achieved this lighting, especially 5 and 6...and 1 and 2 (although I'd try to change the hand placement on 2).

And I am still cracking up over Frank's statement...I would literally kick a horse in the face to have shots like these.

Thank you Elaine. Yes she is gorgeous(well as her mother, I would think that anyway) .... It makes me crazy that when we are out together, everybody has to look at her. She has a natural beauty, like the girl next door. Not quite hootin' and hollerin' yet but from the positive feedback I am getting there! And I asked Frank not to kick any horses. Maybe next time we go to NYC we will have to meet up with him and he can take a picture of her standing by a horse!

Trevlan · February 27, 2009

WingsOfLovePhoto wrote:

And I asked Frank not to kick any horses. Maybe next time we go to NYC we will have to meet up with him and he can take a picture of her standing by a horse!

Hahahahahaha! Right in the head! It would be my pleasure and honor to photograph a beautiful mother and her beautiful daughter. And I would spare the horse this time and this time only... ;-)

Tim Kamppinen · February 27, 2009

These are really beautifiul shots! But, as someone else said, they are mostly broad lighting.

To do short lighting (which is by no means necessary in this case, but good to know how to do it for those situations when it is) there are a few things you have to do.

First and foremost, the subject cannot have their face pointed right at the camera. Their head must be turned to one side or the other (even if it's only a slight turn) in order for there to be a "broad" and "short" side. So get your subject to look right at you while you're looking thorugh the viewfinder. Now tell them to turn their head (which way doesn't matter). Once their head is turned to one side (you should generally be able to see both eyes still; if not, they turned their head a bit to far) look at them. One side of their head should be more visible when you look through the viewfinder. Think about their ears. The side of the head with the ear turned toward you is the broad side. The side with the ear turned away from you (might not even be visible) is the short side. If their nose is pointed to your left, then the side of their face to your right is the broad side, and the side of their face to your left is the short side.

Now that you know which side is short and which side is broad, take your main light and put it on the short side. That's it. You now have a short lighting setup, as long as they keep their head turned the same way. You can put the light at lots of different angles and heights, just keep it on the short side of their face, and you'll have short lighting. The broad side, which is more exposed, will be darker because of the shadows, and the short side will be brighter. This gives the illusion of a thinner face, becasue we tend to take more notice of the bright areas and get our overall impression from them.

heatherfeather · February 27, 2009

Tim Kamppinen wrote:

These are really beautifiul shots! But, as someone else said, they are mostly broad lighting.

To do short lighting (which is by no means necessary in this case, but good to know how to do it for those situations when it is) there are a few things you have to do.

First and foremost, the subject cannot have their face pointed right at the camera. Their head must be turned to one side or the other (even if it's only a slight turn) in order for there to be a "broad" and "short" side. So get your subject to look right at you while you're looking thorugh the viewfinder. Now tell them to turn their head (which way doesn't matter). Once their head is turned to one side (you should generally be able to see both eyes still; if not, they turned their head a bit to far) look at them. One side of their head should be more visible when you look through the viewfinder. Think about their ears. The side of the head with the ear turned toward you is the broad side. The side with the ear turned away from you (might not even be visible) is the short side. If their nose is pointed to your left, then the side of their face to your right is the broad side, and the side of their face to your left is the short side.

Now that you know which side is short and which side is broad, take your main light and put it on the short side. That's it. You now have a short lighting setup, as long as they keep their head turned the same way. You can put the light at lots of different angles and heights, just keep it on the short side of their face, and you'll have short lighting. The broad side, which is more exposed, will be darker because of the shadows, and the short side will be brighter. This gives the illusion of a thinner face, becasue we tend to take more notice of the bright areas and get our overall impression from them.

Wow you explained that so well even I understand! Amazing really.

Thanks!

chrismoore · February 27, 2009

I agree these are beautiful. if you don't mind me asking what brand are your strobes?

Trevlan · February 27, 2009

heatherfeather wrote:

Wow you explained that so well even I understand! Amazing really. Thanks!

LoL. That's my line!

WingsOfLovePhoto · February 27, 2009

Tim Kamppinen wrote:

These are really beautifiul shots! But, as someone else said, they are mostly broad lighting.

To do short lighting (which is by no means necessary in this case, but good to know how to do it for those situations when it is) there are a few things you have to do.

First and foremost, the subject cannot have their face pointed right at the camera. Their head must be turned to one side or the other (even if it's only a slight turn) in order for there to be a "broad" and "short" side. So get your subject to look right at you while you're looking thorugh the viewfinder. Now tell them to turn their head (which way doesn't matter). Once their head is turned to one side (you should generally be able to see both eyes still; if not, they turned their head a bit to far) look at them. One side of their head should be more visible when you look through the viewfinder. Think about their ears. The side of the head with the ear turned toward you is the broad side. The side with the ear turned away from you (might not even be visible) is the short side. If their nose is pointed to your left, then the side of their face to your right is the broad side, and the side of their face to your left is the short side.

Now that you know which side is short and which side is broad, take your main light and put it on the short side. That's it. You now have a short lighting setup, as long as they keep their head turned the same way. You can put the light at lots of different angles and heights, just keep it on the short side of their face, and you'll have short lighting. The broad side, which is more exposed, will be darker because of the shadows, and the short side will be brighter. This gives the illusion of a thinner face, becasue we tend to take more notice of the bright areas and get our overall impression from them.

Thanks Tim! I think maybe I understand... I am going to print this out and have it with me when I do her pictures again. I need to learn this because I have a bunch of Holy Communion shoots coming up and lots of girls that age have chubby faces! I wouldn't want to get it wrong on a paying customer!

WingsOfLovePhoto · February 27, 2009

chrismoore wrote:

I agree these are beautiful. if you don't mind me asking what brand are your strobes?

Thanks Chris. ( you didn't ever by chance live in Poughkeepsie did you?) I use white lightning x1600 strobes as the main and the hair light and I use alien bee's a400 as the background lights.