Poll about something that came up with Bay Photo.

Blurmore · March 4, 2009

In the thread http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=118971
Andy mentioned that many wedding pros they talked to welcomed Smugmug's partnership with Bay because they want little to do with post processing. Can we have a show of hands of people who would post their batch processed or all .jpg wedding to smugmug if they were guaranteed great hand checked prints from Bay? I would NEVER throw an unedited wedding onto smugmug even if the prints were guarunteed perfect because it isn't like the images in galleries would be perfect. Maybe I'm a perfectionist, but I don't want ANYBODY seeing my stuff before it is processed. Now if it was a service which edited, processed web versions AND prints, maybe. But I'd imagine that would run into quite a bit of money.

urbanaries · March 4, 2009

Blurmore wrote:

In the thread http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=118971
Andy mentioned that many wedding pros they talked to welcomed Smugmug's partnership with Bay because they want little to do with post processing. Can we have a show of hands of people who would post their batch processed or all .jpg wedding to smugmug if they were guaranteed great hand checked prints from Bay? I would NEVER throw an unedited wedding onto smugmug even if the prints were guarunteed perfect because it isn't like the images in galleries would be perfect. Maybe I'm a perfectionist, but I don't want ANYBODY seeing my stuff before it is processed. Now if it was a service which edited, processed web versions AND prints, maybe. But I'd imagine that would run into quite a bit of money.

Hmm, I would agree with you, my unedited wedding pics are my own unfinished works, I would never put them in someone else's hands to complete.

But I think there is a difference between creative editing/processing, and final proofing/color correction.

Color management can be as complicated as you want to make it (folks in the technique thread will say otherwise as they fly right over my head), and while I'm working on a calibrated (whatever that means) high-end monitor, i really don't have time or reliable enough skills to ICC, soft-proof for each vendor, etc. A real human on the printer end to evaluate the final result (and weigh in on the elusive "true" or "auto" question) would go a long way to my peace of mind having wedding clients order through Smugmug without me seeing the final result.

heatherfeather · March 4, 2009

Pretty much what she said. While I would never upload unfinished .jpgs and expect them to come out professional quality, I don't mind color gurus helping me out with any color issues I might have.

If it is processing you are looking into having done, there are a number of really great vendors out there doing that. Their help can be as superficial as your photo triage.. (which I would never let anyone else make those decisions about my work) to processing from raw and maintaining a color temperature / proper skintones through the set, to artistic processing which is much more expensive and detailed. I just spent all of last week researching outsourcing processing off and on. But I don't think Bay Photo is any of those, really.

I probably will not be using the auto with bay photo, at least for stuff that I order on behalf of my clients. (Because I sell to them batch at a discount and it is just too expensive.) But I will be using it for clients orders at that will be full cost. If that makes ANY sense!?

Swartzy · March 4, 2009

Waiving my hands in the air wildy

:D:D There is no way I'd let someone process my pics. As Lynne said, color correction and ICC profiles are one thing and I expect my pro lab to do that as they know their equipment...with one exception.....everything I've processed with my colors come back as they look on the monitor other than a bit darker which stands to reason. Putting unfinished photos up is not something I would do nor intend on doing. With all the time spent learning new processing techniques applying my vision to the image would be something completely different in someone else's hands.

Granted, there may be some that another could make better but I'm not willing to take the risk.

Art Scott · March 5, 2009

Blurmore wrote:

In the thread http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=118971
Andy mentioned that many wedding pros they talked to welcomed Smugmug's partnership with Bay because they want little to do with post processing. Can we have a show of hands of people who would post their batch processed or all .jpg wedding to smugmug if they were guaranteed great hand checked prints from Bay? I would NEVER throw an unedited wedding onto smugmug even if the prints were guarunteed perfect because it isn't like the images in galleries would be perfect. Maybe I'm a perfectionist, but I don't want ANYBODY seeing my stuff before it is processed. Now if it was a service which edited, processed web versions AND prints, maybe. But I'd imagine that would run into quite a bit of money.

I for one was one of the people that was asking about PP vendors.....I come from the film world and even keeping my shooting to a bare minimum at a standard midwest baptist wedding (120-150 shots) and shooting 2 a weekend plus shooting upto 4 portrait sessions a day......I could not keep up with the processing......granted i did not have a 1/4 millon Noritsu film processor and printing machines......I did have a very dependable 4x5 dichoric enlarger and a very good heated tube devoping syustem for my prints and film.......so I could process up to 20 rolls in one tank in less than an hour.......but still I could not keep up......so I went to the pro labs and at one time Wichita had 4 very reliable PRO labs and depending on backlog of the labs that made my decision of who got what......if I promised some one a due date falling on a Monday, it went to the only lab open on Saturday for pic up............

So knowing how it has been in the past, I wanted the ability to "drop off" my files for processing.......as soon as I have a set of test files to send off I will be testing the processors Andy posted a month or so ago.......

It is not that I do not want to do it but for me to stay crerative with the camera, I must relinquish some of my control, so that I do not wind up working 24/7/365............I did it once and I remember going to a wedding blurry red eyed aand not totally coherent, but not incoherent. It was like I had read of some of Ken Keaseys acid trip storeis and It was not a bit of fun for me.........so yes I am looking to make a partner of a reliable processor for weddings and portrait work......now for doing speciality processing then that is all up to me and my visions, dreams and sweat lodge experiences, happenings and occurences....................

Baldy · March 5, 2009

It's interesting, there seems to be a big difference between what we hear on forums and in person in so many cases.

I can very much understand and respect the posts I'm reading in this thread, but strangely at WPPI and in our meetings with wedding shooters, I can't remember hearing this. I probably have spoken to maybe 150ish wedding shooters in the last two months and all use outside services like shoot.edit to process their photos, or they let the lab do it.

The only exception I've heard is that most like to post roughly 35 photographer's favorites that they adjust themselves.

Another thing I read on the forums but never heard at WPPI is some people using Mpix for printing. All I heard at WPPI was whcc or Bay Photo.

urbanaries · March 5, 2009

Baldy wrote:

It's interesting, there seems to be a big difference between what we hear on forums and in person in so many cases.

I can very much understand and respect the posts I'm reading in this thread, but strangely at WPPI and in our meetings with wedding shooters, I can't remember hearing this. I probably have spoken to maybe 150ish wedding shooters in the last two months and all use outside services like shoot.edit to process their photos, or they let the lab do it.

The only exception I've heard is that most like to post roughly 35 photographer's favorites that they adjust themselves.

Another thing I read on the forums but never heard at WPPI is some people using Mpix for printing. All I heard at WPPI was whcc or Bay Photo.

I wonder if you're talking to different "classes" of photographers and assuming they're the same? I would venture to say that although we are not amateurs, Swartzy, Heather and I are at the lower end compared to the median wedding photographer at WPPI. I could be totally off here, but since we're all weekend warriors, the economy of scale still tips in our favor of doing the processing ourselves. If I shot 30 weddings a year and it was my full time income...yeah, it probably wouldn't make sense to spend my time in Lightroom, that's for sure. If I wasn't shooting I'd need to be doing other things like marketing.

jeffreaux2 · March 5, 2009

heatherfeather wrote:

I probably will not be using the auto with bay photo, at least for stuff that I order on behalf of my clients. (Because I sell to them batch at a discount and it is just too expensive.) But I will be using it for clients orders at that will be full cost. If that makes ANY sense!?

Any "bad" experience I have had with printing has been associated with the "auto" choice. I only use true now.....and find this to be doubly important with toned black and whites.

I don't shoot enough weddings to have the need to farm any of the work out. It can be intensive though, and I can see why a full time photographer might want to do that.

I havent used Mpix for prints, but on the reccomendation of Urbanaries I used them recently for a hard bound press printed book for a senior portrait client. It turned out perfect, better than that really....I was floored, and the boutique packaging was just the right touch to finish it off.

I am planning to begin using WHCC for their press print products. The senior rep cards and trifold cards (to use for graduation invitations) interest me greatly. The test prints they sent me were stunning, silky, accurate representations of my work.

For fairness, the Bay printed 8x10s I recently had done were also done well, and the packaging was much sturdier than that typically used by EZ prints.

Blurmore · March 5, 2009

Baldy wrote:

It's interesting, there seems to be a big difference between what we hear on forums and in person in so many cases.

I can very much understand and respect the posts I'm reading in this thread, but strangely at WPPI and in our meetings with wedding shooters, I can't remember hearing this. I probably have spoken to maybe 150ish wedding shooters in the last two months and all use outside services like shoot.edit to process their photos, or they let the lab do it.

The only exception I've heard is that most like to post roughly 35 photographer's favorites that they adjust themselves.

Another thing I read on the forums but never heard at WPPI is some people using Mpix for printing. All I heard at WPPI was whcc or Bay Photo.

So you were talking to people who were not currently smugmug customers... I assisted for a high end wedding photographer in DC for a couple of years, and they employed people who did little but PP on scanned film AND digital. I'm not sure how they are working it now, but I doubt they have farmed it out. I think it was probably a combination of things that got the responses you got a WPPI. I shot 8 of my own weddings and 1 Mitzvah last year, I shot well over 30 weddings as a subcontractor for other photographers and national wedding companies. Photography is my only source of income, but I am not the primary breadwinner in my house, I have TIME to process everything. This year I have over 10 of my own weddings booked and I'm looking at the amount of time that the processing is going to take. I think many of the photographers at WPPI are a step up from where most of the people who have posted are. They are people who are booked every weekend with their own jobs, and may even have an associated photographer or 2, but have NOT hired or freelanced someone in house to do album design and PP. I can see how these people would be looking for a partnership like this. BUT, that being said... I doubt smugmug can "WIN" these photographers over, with a partnership with Bay alone. Unless edited and PP by someone else, the photographs clients see in galleries still are not going to look their best, and a guarntee of the print quality only goes so far when selling to the client. I would venture to guess that most of these photographers already have stand alone, designed websites as well, and probably use service like collages.net or pictage for client proofing.

Another thing to consider is that one of the photographers I sub for does 80+ weddings per year, makes a very good living and has NEVER been to WPPI.

What I'm trying to say is that people at/that go to WPPI may be more of a unique breed than a accurate representation of everyone that works in social photography.

Matthew Saville · March 6, 2009

So, what we're getting at here is that there's a difference between color correction and full retouching / enhancement...

Bay photo only does color correction, contrast / clarity optimization. They do NOT remove eyebags etc. ...am I correct?

Furthermore, I am assuming that no professional (who has been in business for any amount of time) is removing eyebags from every one of the 500+ photos they deliver to the client.

This leaves us with still a bit of retouching to do, AFTER a print is ordered, with or without using Bay photo's services.

Just wanted to point that out...

Now, with regard to uploading SOOC images or not-

I think it's a matter of taste and control. For most beginning or part-time pros, they feel compelled to get the color perfect with each and every image they deliver.

HOWEVER, there comes a certain point in time when professionals realize two things:

1.) Basic color correction is NOT the skill that is setting you apart from every other photographer out there. Color correction is like the ABC's of photography- EVERYBODY should be able to do it, therefore why make it your selling point? Color correction is something you SHOULD be outsourcing.

If you don't want your clients to see un-corrected photos, then either pay someone else to do it *before* you upload your images, or do it yourself...

2.) The second thing you realize is that brides really can't tell the difference between an image that you spent 30 seconds to color correct, and an image you spent 30 minutes to color correct. All they see is the IMAGE.

So, when you book 20-40 of YOUR OWN weddings and then deliver 500+ images for each wedding, you think to yourself "holy crap there's no way I'm going to be able to edit all this!"

Then what you do is you either hire someone to do it for you in-house, or you use some out-sourcing company, or you simply bite a few bullets, throw the camera in JPG, bump up the contrast, nail your exposure / WB, and rock it out, straight from the camera to the internet.

I think that all options are viable. I don't know which method I prefer yet, but I'm definitely working towards mastering my JPG skills and geting beautiful SOOC images. I REALLY like to be able to show my clients the images on the back of the camera right then and there; it helps get them excited about the shoot. (Tip- show the bride's portrait to the bridesmaids who are standing around. They'll flip out and tell the bride how beautiful she is!) I learned that tip on thebschool.com!

One thing is certain- the playing field is being leveled by digital photography, and multiple business models / workflows are going to remain viable. There is no silver bullet workflow that renders all others to be the "wrong" way...

=Matt=

Blurmore · March 6, 2009

I agree with a lot of what Matt said, and I understand that volume will eventually dictate that I won't be able to do as much on my own. But a couple of points. I can't imagine ANYONE delivering 500+ images after culling, that is a lot of images. I sell myself largely on my editorial process and it is my personal belief that if you can't say it in under 300 solid story telling images, you are trying to say too much. I checked out shootdotedit and their prices are certainly reasonable for culling and basic color corrects, I think 2.50 for the base level enhancement is less reasonable (for me) but for people who make their money on paper I'm sure it is well worth it. So far as my process goes, I cull and the initial "gut" edit gets color corrected/monochromed and cleaned up (minor stuff removed, eyes copied, cropped, spot acne on the major players) this is typically 200-300 images. Those images I deliver as 4x6 proofs. The rest of the culled images get batch color corrected (by LR presets I make when proofing the 200-300) and delivered on DVD. Sometimes there might be images among the culled that mean something to the couple or family and I don't want to deny them the images but they aren't composed of anything that adds to their story. I fully enhance 3 photographs (of my choosing) from the proofs, these are the ones that take some time. The rest of the cull & edit I can get done in under 3-4 hours. My total typical take on a wedding that I am going to edit myself RARELY exceeds 800 images for an 8 hour job and I've never had a client complain of a lack of coverage.

So far as chimping goes...I'll give you another opinion.

I RARELY chimp during a wedding where guests can see me, and I even more rarely let bridesmaids/brides chimp me. The very high end photographer I assisted for 3 years was a stickler on NEVER seeing you chimp. His opinion was if you are chimping, you are missing something that is going on. He also pointed out that showing others your images is really just taking away from their day, and can come across as unprofessional and acceptance/ego seeking. If your shots are money...the bridesmaids will go crazy over them anyway when they get put up on the web. I see it as more of a great ploy for a young buck photographer to flirt with single bridesmaids than a great networking/marketing tool. Just an opinion, but one impressed upon me by a highly respected, high society social photographer.

heatherfeather · March 6, 2009

Blurmore wrote:

I see it as more of a great ploy for a young buck photographer to flirt with single bridesmaids

Oh that must be my problem....

!

No actually what you said and what Matt said really made some great sense... Especially the last couple sentences of Matt's bit where he was saying that everyone's business plan is different and works differently for different people- but it works and that is the big deal. No right or wrong in the how end. Also, Urbanaries made some great points about us forum frequenters being a different class of photographer as the higher end, shoot 6 million weddings ones.

I wish Shootdotedit's pricing pages were up and going a bit better. The $2.50 was the only price I could find. And like you that is a bit too rich for my blood.

So blurmore, with what you have shared about your editing process, I am curious to hear how many hours you spend editing, oh say an 8 hour gig?
(Reason why I ask is I have heard some pretty varied responses from photographers I respect.)

Blurmore · March 6, 2009

heatherfeather wrote:

Oh that must be my problem.... !

No actually what you said and what Matt said really made some great sense... Especially the last couple sentences of Matt's bit where he was saying that everyone's business plan is different and works differently for different people- but it works and that is the big deal. No right or wrong in the how end. Also, Urbanaries made some great points about us forum frequenters being a different class of photographer as the higher end, shoot 6 million weddings ones.

I wish Shootdotedit's pricing pages were up and going a bit better. The $2.50 was the only price I could find. And like you that is a bit too rich for my blood.

So blurmore, with what you have shared about your editing process, I am curious to hear how many hours you spend editing, oh say an 8 hour gig?
(Reason why I ask is I have heard some pretty varied responses from photographers I respect.)

Download + Backup + Cull + Processing + Enhancements + Upload + DVD Burn + DVD label design + album assembly is probably 9-10 hours. But I'm a stay at home dad...so it is performed in 1/2 hour to 2 hour bursts over the course of a week and a half.

Matthew Saville · March 7, 2009

I can understand that any certain number of photos might be seen as too many or too few on delivery. Some photographers deliver 800+ photos from every wedding, after shooting and culling 2000-3000, and that's not my standard, for sure. I usually average 300-400 shots delivered at a wedding, but I also usually have a 2nd shooter who captures 100-300 great shots as well.

And, interesting POV on chimping. I can see how *some* photographers might use it as a ploy to boost their ego or hit on the bridesmaids. But let me tell you, (as I've said before) internally I keep my ego nice and beaten. My tactic is not necessarily aimed at bridesmaids in particular, just in general I have found that showing a portrait to someone *else* before showing it to the subject helps reassure the subject about how good looking they are. It IS good to know if there is something a bride or subject is self-conscious about, however, so you have to walk a fine line between flattery and avoiding making their nose / ears etc. look too big, or whatever...

But in general, I also hate chimping myself too, or at least I hate taking the camera away from my eye for too long. But I do shoot JPG a lot, so it is in my best interest to NAIL my exposure and WB. But I've learned to be professional about it and make sure I don't miss anything too precious. I especially love the Nikon control setup where you can check close-up focus at the selected focus point with one click, instead of the old days of "zoom, zoom, zoom, scroll, scroll, scroll" etc.

Like I said, with regard to what standard you have for uploaded photos- Everything has more than one path in this business now, and many of them are "right". The only way a business model / ethic / workflow can be proven "wrong" is if a client actually complains, or if it puts you out of business altogether. Then you know you were doing something wrong haha...

=Matt=

[EDIT] Oh and @ Heather- Yeah, as a general rule you should be able to take care of the "back-end" stuff for a wedding in just one or two 8-hr days. Of course those 8-16 hours usually get spread out over the course of a week or two, and most couples take quite a while to decided on their final album design, but in general that's your rule of thumb. As another rule of thumb, try to have your images online BEFORE uncle bob does. Before they return from their honeymoon. I know this sounds crazy but it really does have an impact. Contrary to what us techno-geeks think, we are NOT competing with uncle bob's color correction skills, with respect to the FIRST IMPRESSION. We're competing on image content alone. For those who think I'm nuts, I'd double-dare to just TRY it once- spend almost zero time on PP and just upload the shots straight, within 48 hours of the wedding. See if the bride emails you saying "gosh, they just don't look polished enough, email me back when you've re-edited them for the final DVD delivery..." ...However, my money is on a raving, happy, "oh my gosh they're beautiful, we love them thank you so much!" :-)

=Matt=

timk519 · March 7, 2009

heatherfeather wrote:

I wish Shootdotedit's pricing pages were up and going a bit better. The $2.50 was the only price I could find. And like you that is a bit too rich for my blood.

This link has the info: http://www.shootdotedit.com/pricinginfo/Home:%20Pricing.html

$25 to upload the images via FTP
$0.07 per culled image,
phase 1 artistic edit - $2.50 / image,
phase 2 artistic edit - $60 / hr.

sara505 · March 7, 2009

I think I understand this question. I used to use a lab here in Massachusetts that could make beautiful prints from sooc JPGs. Now I shoot everything in RAW and am learning to pp lots of images in LR, getting better and faster at it all the time. I like the control, I like the creativity, but I still want a lab that can make my images look their best - not all do. I had inconsistent results from EZ Prints and am looking forward to what Bay Photo has to offer in terms of quality. I have already ordered (but have not yet seen) an 11x14, and spent some time working directly with them on a proof book order. So far, I have found them great to deal with in terms of communication and speedy service. I also learned that they print true b&w, and they told me they will be working with SmugMug on being able to offer more products, such as proof books directly out of our galleries in the future - a great idea.

mmmatt · March 11, 2009

Matthew Saville wrote:

But let me tell you, (as I've said before) internally I keep my ego nice and beaten.

=Matt=

Thanks for the chuckle Matt.

rofl

I guess I sum you up by what you said to this poor guy http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=121295

As for the topic at hand, I do my own RAW, and creative PP work. I would love to say I'm busy enough to farm out the RAW work but I'm not quite there yet. If the printer can up my color consistency a notch that is all good in my book. I often notice a difference in color from the beginning of an edit session to the end and go back through a second time. Probably based on eye fatigue or ambient light changes. I tend to try to do an entire event in a couple of sittings.

Matt

Cameron · March 14, 2009

Baldy wrote:

It's interesting, there seems to be a big difference between what we hear on forums and in person in so many cases.

I can very much understand and respect the posts I'm reading in this thread, but strangely at WPPI and in our meetings with wedding shooters, I can't remember hearing this. I probably have spoken to maybe 150ish wedding shooters in the last two months and all use outside services like shoot.edit to process their photos, or they let the lab do it.

The only exception I've heard is that most like to post roughly 35 photographer's favorites that they adjust themselves.

Another thing I read on the forums but never heard at WPPI is some people using Mpix for printing. All I heard at WPPI was whcc or Bay Photo.

A few thoughts: Here at dgrin we have a lot of photoshop nuts - the forum attracts photographers who like to discuss post-processing. Perhaps photographers who visit forums daily are more likely to spend time using their computers for everything else, including post-processing.

Or, most likely, the high-volume pros are too busy shooting to spend time on forums such as dgrin so you don't hear from them here.

ChatKat · March 15, 2009

Other Forums
There are several forums dedicated to the wedding shooters. Most I have chatted with extensively at WPPI do all their own post work or have help to do that. Some use shoot.edit or others.

Like everything in business - it's personal choice.

FedererPhoto · March 15, 2009

Matthew Saville wrote:

...as a general rule you should be able to take care of the "back-end" stuff for a wedding in just one or two 8-hr days....

I just want to throw out that that number is EXTREMELY variable. I've got successful photographer friends that are done with all the back-end stuff within a couple hours. I've got successful photographer friends for whom it takes 20 hours (this seems to be pretty average when people really factor in ALL times and costs involved... most people forget to factor it all int). I, personally, take 2-3x that amount... but that's me. I'm working to find a way to get it lower while keeping the quality my clients require, but there's only so far you can go...

FedererPhoto · March 15, 2009

CSwinton wrote:

A few thoughts: Here at dgrin we have a lot of photoshop nuts - the forum attracts photographers who like to discuss post-processing. Perhaps photographers who visit forums daily are more likely to spend time using their computers for everything else, including post-processing. Or, most likely, the high-volume pros are too busy shooting to spend time on forums such as dgrin so you don't hear from them here.

I frequent a lot of forums, and I really don't think this can be overstated. The (small) subset of photographers that has time to spend posting a lot on web forums has a different 'bend' on things than successful photographers-at-large. Generally more technical, 'perfectionist', technology, and computer-based. Forums are also more likely to be full of 'part-timers' wasting time on their lunch hour (this is in no way a slam on anyone, just an observation) than the photographic community in the real world.
I think that's one of the reasons get together and face-to-face gatherings are so important - they really give you a great view of what other photographers are doing.
It's funny, really. On the web it's almost unheard of to deliver SOOC images to clients - but it's actually quite common in the real world (shoot, upload to smugmug, wash hands). Shooting a wedding with 3 full-frame 3k+ bodies, and half-a-dozen top-of-the-line first-party lenses, flashes worth more than a car, etc is about the only way to go if you were to listen to internet forums...but it's actually quite common in the real world to see photographers using some small pentax body and a 3rd party super-zoom. Or outsourcing PP, or using off-brand items, 'blown highlights', etc, etc, etc...

Elaine · March 15, 2009

I recently read a Q&A with Jasmine Star at MCP Actions.
I thought this question at least partially applied to this discussion:

Hi J*! I’m interested in learning more about your workflow. So once you get your RAW edit back do you process through Lightroom and pick photos to add actions to in PS? What’s your workflow routine? Thanks J* you are a rockstar!!

I think this answer will be WAY too long to get into, but here’s a basic breakdown:
1. I outsource my raw processing to Photographer’s Edit - www.photographersedit.com
2. While my files are being outsourced, I keep the files I want to work on myself. These are the files I want to use as portfolio pieces, blog photos, and slideshow images.
3. Once I blog the images and slideshow, I upload a Favorites folder to an online gallery.
4. Photographer’s Edit uploads the edited jpegs to the online gallery
5. The event is released to the client.

The lovely people at Photographer’s Edit are offering a 20% discount for first time users if you’re interested. At checkout, just type in jstar as the promo code and it’ll be discounted!

Cameron · March 16, 2009

FedererPhoto wrote:

...
I think that's one of the reasons get together and face-to-face gatherings are so important - they really give you a great view of what other photographers are doing.
It's funny, really. On the web it's almost unheard of to deliver SOOC images to clients - but it's actually quite common in the real world (shoot, upload to smugmug, wash hands). Shooting a wedding with 3 full-frame 3k+ bodies, and half-a-dozen top-of-the-line first-party lenses, flashes worth more than a car, etc is about the only way to go if you were to listen to internet forums...but it's actually quite common in the real world to see photographers using some small pentax body and a 3rd party super-zoom. Or outsourcing PP, or using off-brand items, 'blown highlights', etc, etc, etc...

I think this is especially true of more seasoned photographers who developed & perfected their workflow during the days of film. We often forget that people shot weddings for decades in the film days without having the luxury of being able to easily post-process large amounts of photos from each shoot.
I think that the ability to nail the shot in-camera is less common these days because it's more of a convenience than a necessity. There are lots of photographers that have the skill to get it right in-camera enough that post-processing isn't essential (aside from the adjustments that people like Bay do so well). I wish I were that good...

Poll about something that came up with Bay Photo.

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