Pricing help please

jandrewnelson · March 8, 2009

How much would you charge for "action" shots at kids (5 - 15 age group) baseball games?

Here's the situation. Our local parks and rec league just finished registering 350 kids in the 5 - 15 age brackets for baseball season to start March 20th.

Typically they "bid out" the contract for the posed pictures (you know, the individual and group shots). And they also "bid out" to another photographer the rights to set up a 'booth' at the diamond at each game. I didn't know about the bidding process and probaby wouldn't have pursued it even if I did.

I approached the Parks Director with the idea of my being able to take random action shots of the players and post them on my smugmug gallery. Parents of couse would be able to reveiw the pics and purchase any they wanted. I was able to land this by promising the parks director that a portion of the profits would go back to the rec department as kind of a "fundraiser" type thing for them.

He liked my idea and I start March 20th. Now , how much to charge?

I want to charge a decent amount so there's $$$ for me after donating some of the proceeds, yet I don't want to price myself too high thus keeping parents from buying.

Any ideas?

Thanks and blessings
Jerry Nelson

Shadou · March 8, 2009

jandrewnelson wrote:

How much would you charge for "action" shots at kids (5 - 15 age group) baseball games?

Here's the situation. Our local parks and rec league just finished registering 350 kids in the 5 - 15 age brackets for baseball season to start March 20th.

Typically they "bid out" the contract for the posed pictures (you know, the individual and group shots). And they also "bid out" to another photographer the rights to set up a 'booth' at the diamond at each game. I didn't know about the bidding process and probaby wouldn't have pursued it even if I did.

I approached the Parks Director with the idea of my being able to take random action shots of the players and post them on my smugmug gallery. Parents of couse would be able to reveiw the pics and purchase any they wanted. I was able to land this by promising the parks director that a portion of the profits would go back to the rec department as kind of a "fundraiser" type thing for them.

He liked my idea and I start March 20th. Now , how much to charge?

I want to charge a decent amount so there's $$$ for me after donating some of the proceeds, yet I don't want to price myself too high thus keeping parents from buying.

Any ideas?

Thanks and blessings
Jerry Nelson

Hi. How much to charge is always a question that every photographer faces from time to time but there a few things that you need to consider first before you come to your answer. Off the top of my head are things like:

1. Time spent traveling to and from the location.
2. Your time spent taking pictures. Will you be there one hour, 3 hours, 6 hours?
3. How much post processing time will you spend on the pictures?
4. Are you going to sell individual shots or as a package?
5. Will you be charging for your time at the park taking pics or are you just hoping parents will buy after they see your pics online?

You mentioned that a portion of the proceeds will be going back to the rec department. You have to find a price which is comfortable for you and that will also make the rec department happy as well. Talk to other photographers in your area and see how much something like this will cost. To give you an example of prices, I charge $300/hr for a minimum of 2 hours for any event shoot, whether it's sports or not, that I do. This price includes my time doing very minor post processing, if any, transport to and from event, time shooting, etc. Of course I can command these prices because of my market and experience shooting. If I'm shooting people, such as models or even portraits, I will sometimes throw in two 8"x6" prints but the price goes up.

Finding out what you're worth based on your experience shooting and what your market commands will be a good start. Set your prices with what you're comfortable with but make sure you make enough to cover all costs.

Good luck.

Art Scott · March 9, 2009

Shadou wrote:

Hi. How much to charge is always a question that every photographer faces from time to time but there a few things that you need to consider first before you come to your answer. Off the top of my head are things like:

1. Time spent traveling to and from the location.
2. Your time spent taking pictures. Will you be there one hour, 3 hours, 6 hours?
3. How much post processing time will you spend on the pictures?
4. Are you going to sell individual shots or as a package?
5. Will you be charging for your time at the park taking pics or are you just hoping parents will buy after they see your pics online?

You mentioned that a portion of the proceeds will be going back to the rec department. You have to find a price which is comfortable for you and that will also make the rec department happy as well. Talk to other photographers in your area and see how much something like this will cost. To give you an example of prices, I charge $300/hr for a minimum of 2 hours for any event shoot, whether it's sports or not, that I do. This price includes my time doing very minor post processing, if any, transport to and from event, time shooting, etc. Of course I can command these prices because of my market and experience shooting. If I'm shooting people, such as models or even portraits, I will sometimes throw in two 8"x6" prints but the price goes up.

Finding out what you're worth based on your experience shooting and what your market commands will be a good start. Set your prices with what you're comfortable with but make sure you make enough to cover all costs.

Good luck.

I agree......

I will start by saying...do not offer tiny pictures (5x7 or smaller)......Parents and family and friends will nickel and dime you to death if you let them............

Start out with 8x10's...............how much.....I charge $30 for them........and i go up depending how much pp work is done......now ifit is a shoot and run (shoot and load a jpg outr of cam to sell ).....I'll let it go for $15........do not start low or everyone will decide your work is not worth much ......no matter how good it really is.......

I started shooting wedding real low almost 30yrs ago and could not get much work.....trippled muy prices and that in it self raised my percieved value in the eyes of the client.....

Snowgirl · March 10, 2009

Art Scott wrote:

I agree......

I will start by saying...do not offer tiny pictures (5x7 or smaller)......Parents and family and friends will nickel and dime you to death if you let them............

AMEN! When I first started doing horse shows I offered 4 x 6 and 5 x 7 and sold virtually nada. The comments were that they could buy prints at Walmart for 19¢Grrr,

Start out with 8x10's...............how much.....I charge $30 for them........and i go up depending how much pp work is done......now ifit is a shoot and run (shoot and load a jpg outr of cam to sell ).....I'll let it go for $15........do not start low or everyone will decide your work is not worth much ......no matter how good it really is.......

I started shooting wedding real low almost 30yrs ago and could not get much work.....trippled muy prices and that in it self raised my percieved value in the eyes of the client...

In marketing perception IS reality. People don't associate low price with value - just cheap. So, if your product is good, price it accordingly. As the L'Oreal commercial says, you're worth it. :ivar.

See bold comments above...

GP Images · March 11, 2009

These questions always intrigue me. Do we know anything about the OP? What type of equipment and experience they have? How do we know what the quality of the pictures are going to be and how could you possibly tell someone how much to charge not knowing this?

My personal experience with this (two years of shooting high school sports and personal friend of another photog who does the same and we both use SmugMug). Parents talk a good story and say they are going to buy pictures but very few actually go through with it. Many do not like giving out their credit card # over the internet to order pictures. You will have to put in MANY hours for little pay. I think a much better way to go is some way of printing on site or have the pictures of the previous weekend available for purchase at the next weekends games.

Lastly....the idea of:
"In marketing perception IS reality. People don't associate low price with value - just cheap. So, if your product is good, price it accordingly. As the L'Oreal commercial says, you're worth it. :ivar.

We have been over this time and again and I just don't get it?? Times are tough and sorry, I don't care how good the picture is, I know few parents that are going to pay $30 for an 8x10 picture of their kid.

Snowgirl · March 11, 2009

We have been over this time and again and I just don't get it?? Times are tough and sorry, I don't care how good the picture is, I know few parents that are going to pay $30 for an 8x10 picture of their kid.[/quote]

Perhaps. And that's their choice to do or not. But, to make it worth my while to spend hours at a venue shooting "on spec" I want to charge a fair rate. In My case it's around $20 for an 8 x 10 - but that's just a detail. it's the principle of the thing.

jcdill · March 11, 2009

Here are some thoughts:

1) Make sure you aren't stepping on the other photographers' turf. Being on good terms with other photographers in your local area and field (e.g. local sports photographers) is very important. You don't want to start out by making an enemy of the photographers who bid and are paying a fee to work at these games. You may wish to work with one of them and let them sell your images, rather than put all the work into trying to sell them on your own. The upside (profit) you make from selling these shots on your own is not likely to be nearly as much as you think, unless the other photographers are hacks and you are amazing in comparison.

2) Moms do scrapbooking. As such, they want 4x6 prints, or 5x7 at most. They have a lot of things they do with 4x6 prints in their scrapbooks, and may buy dozens of these prints each year. OTOH, they have limited need or use for enlargements. There's only so much room on the wall for an enlargement, and if they have 2-3 kids each doing sports each year if they buy just one enlargement each year they will need space to display 24 to 36 enlargements by the time the kids graduate high school.

3) It's very difficult to make money selling event photos. The hours you will spend A) taking photos,

post processing and culling your bad shots, C) sorting into them groups so parents don't have to wade thru 100s of photos to find the shots of their kids, D) uploading, E) marketing, etc. can leave you making far less than minimum wage. This isn't even taking into account the cost of your gear, your cameras and computers, insurance, vehicle costs, hosting, and the rest. You will also usually find that your galleries get thousands of hits yet relatively few sales. This could be because:

* They find the ordering process confusing;
* They don't like to order over the internet;
* They plan to order "later";
* They did a screen capture of your thumbnail or larger photo, and figure that's good enough (even with watermark) and don't want to pay to get a better print;
* They don't like your photos (rare, but it happens).

I did an analysis of my photo sales and found that I sold about an equal $ amount of 4x6 prints, 5x7 prints, and 8x10 prints over the last 300 orders. However, when I didn't offer 4x6 prints (I did this at one event, as a trial basis) I had fewer orders, and a bunch of emails asking to buy 4x6 prints. I also tried selling just 8x10 enlargements, and again I had to field a bunch of emails and phone calls asking for 4x6 and 5x7 prints.

Cygnus Studios · March 11, 2009

GP Images wrote:

What type of equipment and experience they have?

What possible difference does this make in the real world? I don't have a single client that cares less what I take the image with, as long as it fits their needs. Only photographers seem to care one way or the other.

GP Images wrote:

How do we know what the quality of the pictures are going to be and how could you possibly tell someone how much to charge not knowing this?.

Now this I totally agree with. The OP has to know his market. What I can charge here in the north bay may be quite different than someone in Kansas, or South Carolina.

From my personal experience, I can sell far more images printing on site vs having the parents visit the website. It is a ton more work, and a real pain in the butt, but it works here in my area. I also offer larger "corrected" prints to everyone via the website.
I charge $250 for the shoot, and sell the 4x6 prints on site for $15 with $5 going back to the club.
Parents going to the website have the ability to order 8x10 for $25.00, 10x15 for $35.00, or 16x20 for $80.00

Shadou · March 12, 2009

"We have been over this time and again and I just don't get it?? Times are tough and sorry, I don't care how good the picture is, I know few parents that are going to pay $30 for an 8x10 picture of their kid."

It's this type of statement that really bugs the hell out of me. Regardless if times are tough, people should stop using that as an excuse for everything that happens in their life. If a photographer is given an assignment to shoot something, then the photographer has every right to set his prices as he sees fit. He needs to make a living and cover his costs too. These days, to many people have their own digital camera and can easily be happy with some far off snapshots and could probably give a damn about quality. Sad but true. But you will find people who are more than willing to pay the photographer whatever amount for a quality print of their kid in action.

When you go to a doctor when you're ill, do you ask for a discount on their services? When you go to the grocery store and buy your food, do you ask for a discount? The answer is no. The same principle should apply towards photographers as well. They are providing a professional service, whether full time or not, and trying to talk a photographer down in price just reeks of disrespect..has happened to me and I just say sorry and move on. Plenty more people out there who are more than willing to pay what a photographer is worth....

Snowgirl · March 12, 2009

Shadou wrote:

"We have been over this time and again and I just don't get it?? Times are tough and sorry, I don't care how good the picture is, I know few parents that are going to pay $30 for an 8x10 picture of their kid."

It's this type of statement that really bugs the hell out of me. Regardless if times are tough, people should stop using that as an excuse for everything that happens in their life. If a photographer is given an assignment to shoot something, then the photographer has every right to set his prices as he sees fit. He needs to make a living and cover his costs too. These days, to many people have their own digital camera and can easily be happy with some far off snapshots and could probably give a damn about quality. Sad but true. But you will find people who are more than willing to pay the photographer whatever amount for a quality print of their kid in action.

When you go to a doctor when you're ill, do you ask for a discount on their services? When you go to the grocery store and buy your food, do you ask for a discount? The answer is no. The same principle should apply towards photographers as well. They are providing a professional service, whether full time or not, and trying to talk a photographer down in price just reeks of disrespect..has happened to me and I just say sorry and move on. Plenty more people out there who are more than willing to pay what a photographer is worth....

I could not agree more! I make my living as a freelance writer and photographer and believe me, my bank, plumber, electrician, car repair guy etc. don't offer discounts just 'cause times are tough.

Buying photographs is a discretionary purchase for most people, and for many, falls into the category of a small luxury. But what I sell is a moment captured in time never to be repeated. How can you put a price on that? More importantly, how could you discount the value of a child's first competitive 'star' moment?

If other photographers can afford to donate their time and efforts - great. Not me - except for one charity and one event that I personally choose to support.

Candid Arts · March 12, 2009

I guess this question kind of relates to pricing, but more on just "selling" in general pictures of young kids. Similar situation, but not a baseball game. If you're taking pictures of a bunch of different kids and put them on your site to sell to the parents, do ALL the parents have access to buy ALL the pictures you took? By this I mean if you put every kid in the same gallery and priced them all, one parent could go in and buy pictures of any kid there. Would the other kids parent want someone else buying a picture of their kid? Would that even happen? This is something I've been wondering for awhile now as there is a park in DT portland that I love to shoot in the summer with kids playing in this water fountain thing, it's just so much fun for them. But on my site I don't have any of them priced as I've figured it would be weird for pictures of someone's kids to be for sale to, well pretty much anyone I give the site to. Thoughts? Opinions? Concerns?

Art Scott · March 12, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

I guess this question kind of relates to pricing, but more on just "selling" in general pictures of young kids. Similar situation, but not a baseball game. If you're taking pictures of a bunch of different kids and put them on your site to sell to the parents, do ALL the parents have access to buy ALL the pictures you took? By this I mean if you put every kid in the same gallery and priced them all, one parent could go in and buy pictures of any kid there. Would the other kids parent want someone else buying a picture of their kid? Would that even happen? This is something I've been wondering for awhile now as there is a park in DT portland that I love to shoot in the summer with kids playing in this water fountain thing, it's just so much fun for them. But on my site I don't have any of them priced as I've figured it would be weird for pictures of someone's kids to be for sale to, well pretty much anyone I give the site to. Thoughts? Opinions? Concerns?

Unless it was a mom doing scrapbooking for little joey so he could remember his freinds on this particular team...then I do not think another parent would buy pix of others kids..........so having them in team galleries should be alright.
I would PW the gallery and give it out to a coach to pass out to the parents (unless I knew all the parents myself).

Candid Arts · March 12, 2009

Art Scott wrote:

Unless it was a mom doing scrapbooking for little joey so he could remember his freinds on this particular team...then I do not think another parent would buy pix of others kids..........so having them in team galleries should be alright.
I would PW the gallery and give it out to a coach to pass out to the parents (unless I knew all the parents myself).

Perfect. Exactly what I was looking for. Thank you.

I would PW the gallery...

PW?

Art Scott · March 12, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

PW?

Pass (P) Word (W)

I forgot Protect (P).....so it should have been PWP:D

Candid Arts · March 12, 2009

Art Scott wrote:

Pass (P) Word (W)
I forgot Protect (P).....so it should have been PWP:D

Gotchya. Yeah that's what I would do. Make a specific gallery for that day (or site, i.e. that park) and make a password for it and hand that out to the different parents with my business cards.

Thanks for the words.

Pricing help please

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