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ACR to PS file

Ric GrupeRic Grupe Registered Users Posts: 9,522 Major grins
edited March 9, 2009 in Finishing School
When you are done editing in ACR and hand the file off to PS, what are you really working on as far as file type...bit depth...etc.? A PSD? :scratch:dunno

Since it's not really anything until you save it...can someone shed some light on this?

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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2009
    Ric Grupe wrote:
    When you are done editing in ACR and hand the file off to PS, what are you really working on as far as file type...bit depth...etc.? A PSD? headscratch.gifdunno

    Since it's not really anything until you save it...can someone shed some light on this?

    My understanding after reading camera raw by the late B. Frazer, is that you are working on a "copy" of the raw file until you save as.................

    Of course I may have misunderstood........I know in a class I took that the instructor had use save as ...as we left ACR and then reopened the tif or jpg in PS now that was back when ACR was just an infant.....

    After a trial of LR....I have never been back to ACR....it and bridge are now the red headed step children in my computer.......
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

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    Ric GrupeRic Grupe Registered Users Posts: 9,522 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2009
    Art Scott wrote:
    My understanding after reading camera raw by the late B. Frazer, is that you are working on a "copy" of the raw file until you save as.................

    Of course I may have misunderstood........I know in a class I took that the instructor had use save as ...as we left ACR and then reopened the
    tif
    or
    jpg
    in PS now that was back when ACR was just an infant.....

    After a trial of LR....I have never been back to ACR....it and bridge are now the red headed step children in my computer.......

    Hi, Art. :D

    It seems to me that whether you hand off from ACR or LR really makes no difference since you are using the same raw conversion engine.

    What I am trying to get at is...is there more latitude (available editable information) at this point than saving as a TIF or PSD and editing it later?

    I suppose since your edits in ACR or LR are non-destructive, that you are better off just going back to the raw file with it's editing instructions in ACR or LR and handing it off to PS than you are opening a TIF or PSD of the image.
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    Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2009
    Ric Grupe wrote:
    Hi, Art. :D


    What I am trying to get at is...is there more latitude (available editable information) at this point than saving as a TIF or PSD and editing it later?

    I suppose since your edits in ACR or LR are non-destructive, that you are better off just going back to the raw file with it's editing instructions in ACR or LR and handing it off to PS than you are opening a TIF or PSD of the image.

    I wasn't trying to bring that old LR vs ACR thingy.....sorry

    Yes I feel and was taught that as long as you do a save as(in the end) and not a save (the plain ole SAVE is where things get destructive......at least it was for me) which saves thechanges to the original raw file and then I have never been able to back out of the processing that had been done.........
    So as long as you do not save and just hand off to PS I do believe you are still working an a non destructive copy of the raw file which has the most latitude for processing.....then as long as you SAVE AS.....you can still reopen a processed raw file and back out of the processing done...this is where I normally create a copy of the raw to work on.....of course my original raw is still safely tucked away in an archive.......
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

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    Ric GrupeRic Grupe Registered Users Posts: 9,522 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2009
    Art Scott wrote:
    Yes I feel and was taught that as long as you do a save as(in the end) and not a save (the plain ole SAVE is where things get destructive......at least it was for me) which saves thechanges to the original raw file and then I have never been able to back out of the processing that had been done.........
    So as long as you do not save and just hand off to PS I do believe you are still working an a non destructive copy of the raw file which has the most latitude for processing.....then as long as you SAVE AS.....you can still reopen a processed raw file and back out of the processing done...this is where I normally create a copy of the raw to work on.....of course my original raw is still safely tucked away in an archive.......

    Thanks, Art. :D
    I wasn't trying to bring that old LR vs ACR thingy.....sorry

    Didn't think you were...not an issue for me.
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    arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2009
    Ric Grupe wrote:
    When you are done editing in ACR and hand the file off to PS, what are you really working on as far as file type...bit depth...etc.? A PSD? headscratch.gifdunno

    Since it's not really anything until you save it...can someone shed some light on this?

    Assuming we are starting with Raw.... You are saving metadata rendering instructions. This tell ACR how to create the original RGB pixels in this new, gamma corrected file based on the instructions and the Raw data used to create them. All processing is done using the instructions and the source data in a wide gamut (ProPhoto RGB primary), high bit (15 bits) in an optimal processing order.

    Photoshop can't deal at all with Raw data (that's why there is an ACR plug-in), Photoshop can only work on true, rendered pixels and nearly always in a gamma corrected space (1.8 or 2.2).

    This is truly non destructive since the new data is just that, newly rendered data from Raw+Instructions.

    If you bring a non Raw file into ACR or LR, its not non destructive. The new rendered pixels came from the original data, so there's rounding errors. Plus the processing is the same as above: original pixel data is converted to high bit, wide gamut space. The original is untouched, but the iteration has under gone some data loss as you'd find in any pixel editor when altering the original numeric values of the pixels. There are some advantages to doing this work in a parametric editor compared to a pixel editor but its not non destructive.
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
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    Ric GrupeRic Grupe Registered Users Posts: 9,522 Major grins
    edited March 9, 2009
    arodney wrote:
    Assuming we are starting with Raw.... You are saving metadata rendering instructions. This tell ACR how to create the original RGB pixels in this new, gamma corrected file based on the instructions and the Raw data used to create them. All processing is done using the instructions and the source data in a wide gamut (ProPhoto RGB primary), high bit (15 bits) in an optimal processing order.

    Photoshop can't deal at all with Raw data (that's why there is an ACR plug-in), Photoshop can only work on true, rendered pixels and nearly always in a gamma corrected space (1.8 or 2.2).

    This is truly non destructive since the new data is just that, newly rendered data from Raw+Instructions.

    If you bring a non Raw file into ACR or LR, its not non destructive. The new rendered pixels came from the original data, so there's rounding errors. Plus the processing is the same as above: original pixel data is converted to high bit, wide gamut space. The original is untouched, but the iteration has under gone some data loss as you'd find in any pixel editor when altering the original numeric values of the pixels. There are some advantages to doing this work in a parametric editor compared to a pixel editor but its not non destructive.

    Thanks, Andrew.:D

    Sometimes my thinking isn't as befuddled as I fear. Nice to have confirmation.
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    RichardRichard Administrators, Vanilla Admin Posts: 19,937 moderator
    edited March 9, 2009
    Ric Grupe wrote:
    When you are done editing in ACR and hand the file off to PS, what are you really working on as far as file type...bit depth...etc.? A PSD? headscratch.gifdunno

    Since it's not really anything until you save it...can someone shed some light on this?

    Any file you open in PS is stored internally as data while it is open, not a file. You have the choice as opening it in a number of different modes (bit depth, color space). If you open it in 8 bit mode, when editing you will lose some information from the 12 to 14 bit RAW source. Saving a 16 bit mode image as a PSD or TIFF makes no difference to the internal representation of the image when it is re-opened in PS, as PS converts the file to its internal data format. The RAW file is not altered by ACR or LR; only the settings of the converter are saved. You can always re-open the RAW and reset the conversion settings to whatever you like.
    My Pics
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