Discipline

Khaos · May 29, 2005

Did you find yourself getting lazy when you started using a dslr?

Get me out there with the camera and I lose all sense of purpose and I start running around like a hyper monkey on crystal meth shooting pics gatling gun style.

Do I check ISO? Hell no, I shoot away for a while until I find the shots are OE.

Do I set the aperture to best reflect the lens ability and the subject I'm shooting? Hell, no, I have to take pictures now! Let the camera figure it out.

Sometimes I hate me.:D

This isn't all the time, but it's more than I would like.

Do you find that you had to force a regimen on yourself since you have a camera that can do too much for you? Do you just set the camera to manual to force yourself to set everything? What the about making sure you don't forget the ISO setting or the exposure value?

Am I alone in my photographic attention deficit disorder?:dunno

bfjr · May 29, 2005

Uhh No your not alone

me too of course.
I get like Buck Fever and I have to talk myself outa it. Sometimes win mostly not :cry
But if someone took a picture of me while doing it.
I'd be smilin all the time

, that's what counts to me. Well a decent image would be nice :lol

Shay Stephens · May 29, 2005

Learn to self critique
A quick way to solve that "problem" is to have someone or something to shoot for. Someone or something that expects a certain level of quality and consistency. In a situation like that, you don't have the luxury of being a lazy shooter.

So one thing that may help emulate that situation without actually having to do pro work, is to simply delete all the photos you take that do not meet certain benchmark levels of quality. Be your own critic, and be a harsh one. Soon you will get tired of spending hours shooting only to wind up throwing it all away.

Set quality and quantity goals for yourself, and if you do not meet or exceed them, learn from that, and try to do a better job next time. If you start to consistently (and this is key) meet or exceed your goals, then they (your benchmark goals) have become outdated, and you need to ratchet them up a notch to keep yourself challenged.

Self critique can be a powerful tool, and it's the only one I can think of short of having a crusty editor or art director chewing you out for not getting the job done

Michiel de Brieder · May 29, 2005

Great advice Shay!!!!!!

4labs · May 29, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

Self critique can be a powerful tool, and it's the only one I can think of short of having a crusty editor or art director chewing you out for not getting the job done

or having your wife go ehhh, now that really hurts...(at least to me it does).. wonderful advice Shay..

Khaos · May 29, 2005

Thanks Shay.

gus · May 29, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

A quick way to solve that "problem" is to have someone or something to shoot for. Someone or something that expects a certain level of quality and consistency. In a situation like that, you don't have the luxury of being a lazy shooter.

This is funny because i didnt know i was a 'lazy shooter' until i did my best at a wedding on this past week-end.

Plenty of 'fast glass' & a great camera but man did i learn a lot !!

Shooting on wrong settings...forgetting to take the lens back off manual...you name it , i did it. They were friends & asked me to do the wedding which i flat out refused but said i was happy to shoot from the crowd to get some stuff the Pro may have missed.

I looked at all my shots & thanked god i didn't have to put them in an album & say "Here guys...this is what you just paid for..."

No place for amatures to be charging money. You wedding guys are under huge 'emotional' pressure not to stuff up

nzmacro · May 30, 2005

Shot with Slr's but not Dslr's.

So now its with the smaller digicam's but nothing has really changed, except maybe the ratios.

A headless chicken huh. Everything is preset and nothing on auto. That helps allot. Sneaking around slowly, crawling through the grass and mud, SLOWLY chasing the challenge. Then when you see it snap in focus....... CLICK !!

Not really much chance of anything else. You can sit there and try to get a great composition, but the fly won't wait. You can sit there and watch all the pretty little lines move on the histogram, but the bee won't wait. You can fiddle with a tripod at 1/2" off the ground, but the ant just laughs in ya face. You can wait while the auto focus snaps into place, just lost 3 shots. You can play with the white balance all you like, but the wasp is still the same darn colour. You can fire off a burst at 4 frames a sec, where the heck did that hopper go. You can look around and change that lens, too late the spider already has the fly. You can play with the flash settings, but the katydid is faster.

Heck, why am I even using digital

It might be quicker to paint the thing.

Danny.

gus · May 30, 2005

nzmacro wrote:

the wasp is still the same darn colour.

Danny.

Can i change that a tad mate....

".. the bride & groom are walking towards you & the light is changing "

nzmacro · May 30, 2005

, different but the same M8t

Shay Stephens · May 30, 2005

There is plenty of time there, how about this one...

The groom is going in for "the kiss", but he is so nervous that it's only a peck and will likely last only 3.2 nanoseconds...

You prefocused on them didn't you, because the groom didn't mention anything about going for the fastest kiss in history, and no autofocus in the world is fast enough for the record setting peck that is about to be unleashed...

Wait for it...waiiiiiit for iiiiiiiiit........BAM! It's over.

How many frames of the kiss did you get? What do you mean "what kiss"?!?!

Humungus wrote:

Can i change that a tad mate....

".. the bride & groom are walking towards you & the light is changing "

nzmacro · May 30, 2005

Hang on Shay, I'll just try that on Jan....................Hey come back.......where ya going.............(slap, smack, slap). Man that was a quick kiss. I doubt with the flash units set to 128/000th sec, I could have caught that.

How about "Dgrin bloopers"

Now that would be interesting to see. Also a lot of fun.

Danny.

Daniel Chui · May 31, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

A quick way to solve that "problem" is to have someone or something to shoot for. Someone or something that expects a certain level of quality and consistency. In a situation like that, you don't have the luxury of being a lazy shooter.

So one thing that may help emulate that situation without actually having to do pro work, is to simply delete all the photos you take that do not meet certain benchmark levels of quality. Be your own critic, and be a harsh one. Soon you will get tired of spending hours shooting only to wind up throwing it all away.

Set quality and quantity goals for yourself, and if you do not meet or exceed them, learn from that, and try to do a better job next time. If you start to consistently (and this is key) meet or exceed your goals, then they (your benchmark goals) have become outdated, and you need to ratchet them up a notch to keep yourself challenged.

Self critique can be a powerful tool, and it's the only one I can think of short of having a crusty editor or art director chewing you out for not getting the job done

Shay, you've been a great teacher since day one. Well said, couldn't agree with you more.

- Chui

tlittleton · May 31, 2005

Thanks for the great advice Shay!

Shay Stephens wrote:

Be your own critic, and be a harsh one. Soon you will get tired of spending hours shooting only to wind up throwing it all away.

I definately agree. It seems I shoot so many shots and get so few good ones in return. I'm still learning though, so I guess that will change with time. I worry though, about trying to do too many things with my camera at once sometimes. Like can I get that macro shot of that bee then swing around and shoot that buzzard flying by with a telephoto and then jump up, throw on the wide, and shoot a beautiful landscape, all at 3FPS while juggling shutter speed and aperture.

Patience is definately not one of my virtues yet. But I am slowing learning to relax a bit more and concentrate on the one shot rather than blindly shooting non stop and sorting through a billion pics.

johno · May 31, 2005

I have heard about the normal photographer tossing 80-90% of their pics because most of them are not good enough... I have struggled with this. I don't want to shoot 90% junk... I do, but that's another post.

Like Shay said having a subject to shoot, keeps you on target. Another suggestion would be to buy a 512 or 256 memory card. Like a roll of film... You can only shoot so much. You either work for the shot or you spend most of your time reviewing and deleting on a 1.5 viewfinder. No fun.

If you know you are limited on frames you know you must take time to work every angle of the shot.

Like golf, you can hit the ball as much as you want... I know. But that's not good golf. I know.

I prefer to be a better golfer. No one knows how many times I hit the ball... But I do.

peace.
johno~

Shay Stephens · May 31, 2005

Focus
You are describing a "photographer gone wild" video hehehe.

Have you heard of the term "working the shot"? It basically describes a deliberate and systematic way of exploring a subject or theme. You keep working your angles, settings, and concept until you hit pay dirt. All the other shots you took leading up to the "money shot" may be waste, they may be usable for something else later, but the whole idea is to work the shot until you get what you want.

You can't do that effectively if you are shooting willy-nilly every shiny thing that cross your field of view hehehe.

I will be making a post later in the week about this subject, as I think it would be a good subject to explore.

In the mean time I am reminded of Homer Simpson:
Homer stumbles upon a man lying on the street unconscious.

"Oh my god! this man's my exact double! And that dog has a puffy tail. Hee hee hee. Here puff! Here puff!"

And he goes chasing after the dog.

tlittleton wrote:

I worry though, about trying to do too many things with my camera at once sometimes. Like can I get that macro shot of that bee then swing around and shoot that buzzard flying by with a telephoto and then jump up, throw on the wide, and shoot a beautiful landscape, all at 3FPS while juggling shutter speed and aperture.

wxwax · May 31, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

You are describing a "photographer gone wild" video hehehe.

Have you heard of the term "working the shot"? It basically describes a deliberate and systematic way of exploring a subject or theme. You keep working your angles, settings, and concept until you hit pay dirt. All the other shots you took leading up to the "money shot" may be waste, they may be usable for something else later, but the whole idea is to work the shot until you get what you want.

You can't do that effectively if you are shooting willy-nilly every shiny thing that cross your field of view hehehe.

I will be making a post later in the week about this subject, as I think it would be a good subject to explore.

In the mean time I am reminded of Homer Simpson:
Homer stumbles upon a man lying on the street unconscious.

"Oh my god! this man's my exact double! And that dog has a puffy tail. Hee hee hee. Here puff! Here puff!"

And he goes chasing after the dog.

I look forward to that thread.

Someone once posted a link of a photog's musings on this very subject. He had examples. His main point was that you had to be willing to change lenses to get the right shot. Again, he provided his own shots for illustration. One of the best was of his daughter in a hammock.

Anyone remember that link?

Netgarden · May 31, 2005

Good stuff everyone, thanks.
It seems as though just when I start getting the hang of it, and keeping more and more shots, all of a sudden it doesn't work, and have a bad day again!

You are right, and at my entry level its back to the drawing board of homework, looking at my exif's and figuring out why I had a bad day. Time consuming for sure. But I usually learn just a little more...when that "one step backwards" happens.

Looking forward to your post Shay.

wxwax wrote:

I look forward to that thread.

Someone once posted a link of a photog's musings on this very subject. He had examples. His main point was that you had to be willing to change lenses to get the right shot. Again, he provided his own shots for illustration. One of the best was of his daughter in a hammock.

Anyone remember that link?

pathfinder · May 31, 2005

Khaos wrote:

Did you find yourself getting lazy when you started using a dslr?

Get me out there with the camera and I lose all sense of purpose and I start running around like a hyper monkey on crystal meth shooting pics gatling gun style.

Do I check ISO? Hell no, I shoot away for a while until I find the shots are OE.

Do I set the aperture to best reflect the lens ability and the subject I'm shooting? Hell, no, I have to take pictures now! Let the camera figure it out.

Sometimes I hate me.:D

This isn't all the time, but it's more than I would like.

Do you find that you had to force a regimen on yourself since you have a camera that can do too much for you? Do you just set the camera to manual to force yourself to set everything? What the about making sure you don't forget the ISO setting or the exposure value?

Am I alone in my photographic attention deficit disorder?

Khaos, what percentage of your shots are shot from a tripod and what percentage are shot free-hand? There is NOTHING that will improve the technical quality of your images like a good, stable tripod. Because it forces you to slow down and REALLY look through the viewfinder - you can even study the view, and the foreground and the background and the depth of field. And recheck you ISO and color balance and aperature, whatever.

Shooting in manual is a good learning exercise also. It really forces you to think through each step of the shot. You would be surprised how little the exposure varies outdoors in the sunlight. Folks shot Kodachrome 25 without a light meter for years by the Sunny 16 rule and it still works today. I have not asked Shay, but I would almost bet he shoots in manual or Av mode and not program or automatic for his wedding shoots.

I will be the first to admit to lots of goofs - I posted a pic of a mockingbird that was shot at 1/13 of a sec with a 600mm lens. You probably saw it. Not my first choice of shutter speed, but the bird was only there for a few seconds, so bang I shot 8 rapid frames. But joy of joys - because I was tripod mounted, one of them was acceptably sharp. I had failed to change the aperature and shutter speed after shooting at the bird in the sky where the sun was shining brightly. I was shooting in Av, so as the bird dropped into the shadows, the shutter speed just got longer and longer. My error. Tv would not have helped either, because I would have run out of aperature even sooner than shutter speed.

Sometimes we just get excited and forget, but that will pass with more experience and the use of a tripod, and manual settings. Have fun - extra images are easy to delete.

tlittleton · June 1, 2005

pathfinder wrote:

I posted a pic of a mockingbird that was shot at 1/13 of a sec with a 600mm lens.

pathfinder, when shooting with a lens that long, do you use a remote release cord or anything? I know you wouldn't be able to for action shots, but for those shots that you have time to get everything set right. I have a decent tripod (well it works for me), but I sometimes still get shake when I set my lens to it's max (it's a 75-300, don't have anything bigger...yet), and so I use mirror lockup and a timer to make sure I'm not touching the camera.

DavidTO · June 1, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

Have you heard of the term "working the shot"? It basically describes a deliberate and systematic way of exploring a subject or theme. You keep working your angles, settings, and concept until you hit pay dirt. All the other shots you took leading up to the "money shot" may be waste, they may be usable for something else later, but the whole idea is to work the shot until you get what you want.

This is exactly what the book "The Thinking Photographyer" that I mentioned in this thread deals with. Working a shot until you get it nailed.

The book is a pay-it-forward item, that I paid forward to bkriete. If anyone is interested in it, PM him, and he'll send it off to you! All you have to do is agree to send it on to the next interested party.

Khaos · June 1, 2005

I'm mostly hand held for now. I spent too much money on lenses and didn't leave enough for a good tripod and ballhead. Yeah, I can be that stooopid.

I'll get a Bogen\Manfrotto and Arca Swiss B1 as soon as I'm able.

mercphoto · June 1, 2005

Khaos wrote:

Did you find yourself getting lazy when you started using a dslr?

No. Rather, its because I'm lazy that I pay attention to what I shoot in the first place. In other words, I don't want tons of processing time, tons of sorting time, tons of throwing in the garbage time, after a race or event or whatever.

An example of what I'll do during a race to make being lazy after the race easier. Race days are often broken into practice, qualifying, race heat and final heat. I have index cards labeled P, Q, R and H. Before each session I take a picture of one of those cards. Each session is often broken into groups by number. Again, I take a picture of the correct numbered index card before that session hits the track. Now after the race I can easily identify which group, and which session, any given photo was from.

A little bit extra work when shooting, a lot less work after shooting.

Remember, being lazy is a virtue.

XO-Studios · June 2, 2005

Khaos wrote:

<SNIP>

Am I alone in my photographic attention deficit disorder?<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/ne_nau.gif" border="0" alt="" >

While I shoot too much, going with a DSLR, I have found that with my D70 I use manual way more than I ever have. Even more than my old trusty ZENITH I started using 20 some years ago. That is MANUAL A and S, I still need to get better (faster/more accurate) at manual focus.

XO,

Discipline

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