Tips on effective scouting??

catspaw

Ever since I re-started my photography career, I've heard a LOT about 'scouting' out landscape locations ahead of time, especially in new areas (of course). However, what escapes me, is what this involves beyond wandering around, looking, and trying to guess what time of day would be best to come back and shoot. But really now. There HAS to be more 'art' to it than that??

I've always been an opportunistic photographer. I go, I explore, I see, I shoot. Easy.

Hoewver, I have the completely unexpected chance to be in over a half dozen very awesome places this year - all without having to deal with transportation myself. The rebirth of the child-parental vacation trip, age 32. Don't ask, I don't understand why either, but I'm not complaining. Well, I might around mile 500 in a car with both parents. And if anyone knows how to get antianxiety meds into my mom's food, please tell me now. My dad and I will kiss your feet.

So. Unexpectedly, they've picked up on the fact I've this "photography thing" going strong and understand that I will be scampering around taking photos regardless of what they are up to. So I DO have some degree of freedom (and usually several days in the same locations), access to a vehicle, and expected to disappear at strange hours.

So while not set up 100% perfectly for 'scouting', I know at least some of these trips WILL allow me to do so. This year is ALL about developing more and more as a photographer. And scouting? that I do NOT understand in the least and reading books with chapters about it has only confirmed the fact that this is a 'thing' that I just do. not. get. So aside from Yellowstone bears NOT eating me, what should I do?

tips?

suggestions?

sympathy? encouragement?

:bow :bow :bow

ian408

Scouting is a matter of seeing what's what. If you were planning a night shot, you'd want to get the lay of the land before having to deal in the dark. Or if shooting a wedding, what ambient light is like and to find out if there are any rules you must abide by.

I guess it depends on what and where you are shooting to know what you need to look for but you want to find out as much as you can before an important shoot.

angevin1

ian408 wrote:

Scouting is a matter of seeing what's what. If you were planning a night shot, you'd want to get the lay of the land before having to deal in the dark. Or if shooting a wedding, what ambient light is like and to find out if there are any rules you must abide by.

I guess it depends on what and where you are shooting to know what you need to look for but you want to find out as much as you can before an important shoot.

Yeah. And unless I missed it you don't actually say what kind of photography you usually do. I always scout for people photos...its kinda like knowing the answer before asking the question. you have to know what it will most likely look like to have the vision of what She/He/They will look like or feel like being there. As far as Landscapes go...I am always looking for shots to be done, now and at some other time/weather/season...always using my imagination to 'see' it.

tryptofan: found in (the food) Turkey...puts 'em down, sleepy and easy too!

tom

Nikolai

I know it sounds like a typical me , but I would contact local models. This way I would have a local guide, who hopefully knows the area (not all of them do, but some do) plus a 100% pleasant foreground subject.
You can use OMP/MB travel notification system to get the word out.

ian408

Nikolai wrote:

I know it sounds like a typical me , but I would contact local models. This way I would have a local guide, who hopefully knows the area (not all of them do, but some do) plus a 100% pleasant foreground subject.
You can use OMP/MB travel notification system to get the word out.

Sometimes, yes. But don't forget. You're the photographer and you need to make decisions, especially when you are the one paying for their services

If you were shooting a wedding or people shots in a different city and needed local knowledge, what better way than to seek a local shooter?

Nikolai

ian408 wrote:

Sometimes, yes. But don't forget. You're the photographer and you need to make decisions, especially when you are the one paying for their services

If you were shooting a wedding or people shots in a different city and needed local knowledge, what better way than to seek a local shooter?

While in theory it's true, it's actually not too easy to get the information from the local photographers. Dgrin is but one of the few communities where the info sharing is a modus operandi. More often local experts perfer to keep this info to themselves to get an advantage over the newcomers and visitors. That's why it's important to have friends in as many corners of the world as possible.
Yet still, sometimes models do know places 'togs don't, trust me on this...

Nikolai

ian408 wrote:

..especially when you are the one paying for their services

Never... It's either trade or the other way around...

Toshido

Nikolai wrote:

Never... It's either trade or the other way around...

i think you just became my newest hero.

catspaw

Yup, mentioning the word 'LANDSCAPES' probably would have helped here sorry about that. People I can handle, weddings, situations, etc. But trying to imagine and predict what the land will look like.... Am I the ONLY one who hits a wall on this area???

Nikolai

catspaw wrote:

Yup, mentioning the word 'LANDSCAPES' probably would have helped here sorry about that. People I can handle, weddings, situations, etc. But trying to imagine and predict what the land will look like.... Am I the ONLY one who hits a wall on this area???

You're definitely NOT the only one. It does take time and efforts to learn such things. You can anticipate a few things here and there (like geographical orientation, and such), but this will only get you so far. I actually was able to pick up a few places off the satellite imagery, but other than that is mostly sheer luck combined with wild wandering. Again, as Ian suggested, local shooters should have a much better knowledge, but then the problem becomes a) to find them, and, most importantly, b) to incentivize them somehow to share that info.

Cygnus Studios

I start with googling the area and surrounding small towns. Sometimes you will get images and sometimes you will get local tourist spots.
I then contact the chamber of commerce or tourist info center. You would be surprised at the info you get when they here an out of town photographer is coming.
For small towns, the town hall or sheriffs department will go out of their way to help you find the cool spots.
Local museums are also good starting points for questions.

aktse

Personally, I do some research on the web and in the bookstores

-flickr photo searches for inspiration at various locations; study the geotagging info, date info, etc. For this, I prefer the searching/keywording done on flickr than on smugmug.
-search the flickr communities -- tons of info/locations hidden there and post on their "forum" for specifics
-more google searches on specific locations after I find scenes that i like on flickr
-visit the library/bookstore for general tour books and photography guide books. For the southwest, I won't dare to go back with the southwest photo bibles. I can't remember the exact names of the book or the author, but they were so useful. I'm really surprised with the number of photo guidebooks available these days.
-moonrise/sunrise/tide web sites for times/locations/levels
-post about destination in the "location" thread in dgrin.
-contact the chamber of commerce in the area that you're visiting; they might have tourist info

catspaw

aktse wrote:

-moonrise/sunrise/tide web sites for times/locations/levels

I am ALWAYS surprised when someone expects a high tide and gets low or vice versa. I guess I grew up close enough to the sea that we always checked and knew before we went. Early scouting, but that had more to do with tidepools and swimming

ALL excellent ideas. I've gotten some good links on photo guides -- there's an amazing one for California which I found now that I don't live there anymore. d'oh! If you remember the southwest one's name, let me know? grand canyon, bryce, san rafael swell, etc are all on the list. And only a few hours from me so i'm likely to visit again if able (time wise).

Where photographers won't share information, their photos will thanks!!!

pathfinder

Leah,

Take a good compass with you - it will really help you have an idea whether a site is a morning shoot in the rising sun, or an afternoon shoot with the sun from the west.

MooreDriven

I travel a lot on business, and also travel via motorcycle as another hobby. Finding locations to shoot is almost always a challenge. Smugmug is an excellent place to get suggestions. As Nikolai stated, this community is willing to share locations.

In addition to the other suggestions already provided, hear are a few more to consider.

1. Not sure if your planning to be in Arkansas, but here's a good link.
2. I've purchased one of these guidebooks, and was not overly impressed. However, it did provide basic information. I don't believe they are being updated anymore.

Also check with the Parks and Wildlife departments for each state. They can have useful information as well.

Dale

Nikolai

In addtition to what's been said... I picked up a lot of local places from "Hiking in ..." and "Camping in ..." series. In my particular case the "..." parts were "Northern CA" and "Southern CA" by Tom Sienstra. If a trail is marked as 8..10 on a scenic scale - chances are it is very pretty. And the local maps would give you a good idea on what time of day you should be there.

ChatKat

AAA Guides
Go to the Automobile Club! They have paper maps, guide books etc. They are expert at telling you what is along the various roads. Get a Trip Tick - each page of the map is put together for you with akl kinds of unbelivable information on it for exactly YOUR road trip. The cost to belong is about $50 for a year - a good idea if you are driving anywhere - but the maps are beyond. I got one for friends who were driving from LA to No California to Yosemite, Death Valley, Las Vegas, Bryce, Zion, Grand Cyn. There were lists of bath4rooms, restaurants and local sites Most of the trip planing was free. I think i bought a guidebook there for them. My friend took something like 5000 photographs. With all the paid guildes, he used this most.

Nikolai

ChatKat wrote:

Go to the Automobile Club! They have paper maps, guide books etc. They are expert at telling you what is along the various roads. Get a Trip Tick - each page of the map is put together for you with akl kinds of unbelivable information on it for exactly YOUR road trip. The cost to belong is about $50 for a year - a good idea if you are driving anywhere - but the maps are beyond. I got one for friends who were driving from LA to No California to Yosemite, Death Valley, Las Vegas, Bryce, Zion, Grand Cyn. There were lists of bath4rooms, restaurants and local sites Most of the trip planing was free. I think i bought a guidebook there for them. My friend took something like 5000 photographs. With all the paid guildes, he used this most.

AAA rules!

Scott_Quier

ChatKat wrote:

Go to the Automobile Club! They have paper maps, guide books etc. They are expert at telling you what is along the various roads. Get a Trip Tick - each page of the map is put together for you with akl kinds of unbelivable information on it for exactly YOUR road trip. The cost to belong is about $50 for a year - a good idea if you are driving anywhere - but the maps are beyond. I got one for friends who were driving from LA to No California to Yosemite, Death Valley, Las Vegas, Bryce, Zion, Grand Cyn. There were lists of bath4rooms, restaurants and local sites Most of the trip planing was free. I think i bought a guidebook there for them. My friend took something like 5000 photographs. With all the paid guildes, he used this most.

Kathy - you rule! Thanks so much for this idea. I've been over-working my two gray cells trying to figure out where I could find a concise compilation of information for the drive from SE VA to Acadia NP for the 2009 Shootout. I do believe you have saved my bacon!

catspaw

Scott_Quier wrote:

Kathy - you rule! Thanks so much for this idea. I've been over-working my two gray cells trying to figure out where I could find a concise compilation of information for the drive from SE VA to Acadia NP for the 2009 Shootout. I do believe you have saved my bacon!

'k at least I can say I have the AAA part down I won't do a roadtrip without it. I've found insurance towing and roadside assistance to be spotty at best (it won't cover all areas, etc etc), so it's always AAA when on the road or when I've moved into a new area and want to stock up on maps without spending more money Two different road trips this summer and I've already gotten all their maps for it.

Now to coordinate flick searches for good photo spots and the maps. Someday we'll have GPS all built into everything and nothing can stay hidden. muhahahha.

ps. have a great drive when you go!

Tango

you just dont get it? huh? now i dont get why you dont get that....

dont you yurn to find a composition nobody has already taken?

scouting is the only way i can figure out where i want to be standing when the sun comes up....or goes down....

have you ever seen a photograph from someones collection only to find out you needed to really search around to acually find the spot? thats scouting... myself, i really hate the idea of setting up right where i know somebody has already plopped their tripod. btw, the fact that i try to just get a little different perspective from a "spot" has lead to unexpected compositions that nobody else has in their collection... for instance, there is a scene/composition that i see all the time from photographers of a "spot" they all set up right at the edge and i found that seting up 10ft back from the edge makes a world of difference (IMO)...(now i just need to be there that one day out of the year that has glorious sky & light!!)(but i think i have a better chance of winning a lotto somewhere)

scouting = preplanning, and i dont think you will ever get a great composition without scouting. even if its a overlook that everybody and their dog has been too....

catspaw

AaronNelson wrote:

have you ever seen a photograph from someones collection only to find out you needed to really search around to acually find the spot?

nope! never yearned for that. I get that some folks are into collecting 'locations' (and if a stock photographer, it's nearly REQUIRED you do so), but I just want to capture the experience and bring more out of it if I can. I just don't always know where to go ....

even if its a overlook that everybody and their dog has been too....

....other than those overlooks or walks that everyone's done

I *think* I'll get better at this. I'm already looking forward to the snow melt and getting back up into the Wasatch for hiking into new areas -- and revisiting old to see what new stuff I can pull out of there this year.

Tango

im not sure i made my point well...

dont you yurn to look at a photograph of your own that nobody else has anything like it in their collection?

and if its a place very well photographed by everybody and their dog dont you like the idea yours to be different?

thats scouting.

preplanning is scouting.

Tango

catspaw wrote:

I *think* I'll get better at this. I'm already looking forward to the snow melt and getting back up into the Wasatch for hiking into new areas -- and revisiting old to see what new stuff I can pull out of there this year.

thats a form of scouting, looking forward too....vision

ChatKat

The thrill of the capture
Sometimes you can go to a location that many people have been to before. Just being there and capturing it are enough for some. How many people have gone to all of Ansel Adam's locations to try to duplicate his perspective?

Think about birders or wildlife or architetural photographers for a minute. How many want to capture the Golden Gate Bridge or the Statue of Liberty? Even with the idential frame of something, the color can be different because the light is different.

We can each have what we want our of that particular shoot. We each have our own eyes and abiiities and variations because of light, gear and experience.

ian408

ChatKat wrote:

Sometimes you can go to a location that many people have been to before. Just being there and capturing it are enough for some. How many people have gone to all of Ansel Adam's locations to try to duplicate his perspective?

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Isn't that how it goes?
Some folks also learn through imitation.

catspaw

AaronNelson wrote:

preplanning is scouting.

Excellent point -- I hadn't thought of it that way. I thought of scouting as *only* the physical act of checking places out and planning photos/times/locations before hand. Which while it makes SENSE to me, doens't really sink in.

And yes -- I get your point now. I DO want to often be at the same place and put my OWN spin on the photograph. It might not be the same, but I don't WANT it to be the same. I want to see the same things but put my own 'art' into it and see what comes out.

Cygnus Studios

ChatKat wrote:

Sometimes you can go to a location that many people have been to before. Just being there and capturing it are enough for some. How many people have gone to all of Ansel Adam's locations to try to duplicate his perspective?

Think about birders or wildlife or architetural photographers for a minute. How many want to capture the Golden Gate Bridge or the Statue of Liberty? Even with the idential frame of something, the color can be different because the light is different.

We can each have what we want our of that particular shoot. We each have our own eyes and abiiities and variations because of light, gear and experience.

A perfect example.

LiquidAir

Google maps sattelite view is another good way of scouting. For example, perusing the map around Point Reyes, I saw this:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Kehoe+Beach,+Point+Reyes,+CA&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=51.576045,69.785156&ie=UTF8&ll=38.162125,-122.95083&spn=0.003054,0.006298&t=h&z=18

and that turned into this:

CWSkopec

I really like using Google Maps and turning on the "Photos" Layer. There aren't a lot of photos that have "high artictic value" but you can get a sense of the place or even unique elements that you can try to capture better.

My most recent example is from this weekend... I took a trip up to Joshua Tree National Park, but in my planning phase, I scoured the photos on Google Maps through out the park. Without that, I may not have realized there was a natural rock arch in the park, it's not easy to find on their web site and smugmug/flickr searchs for Joshua Tree yield so many results it would be easy to overlook or not find at all.

Also if you're shooting in an urban environment, try using the Street View feature on Google Maps. A couple years ago, they had a van (or maybe many) drive almost every street in the US taking 360 degree photos the whole way. Using Street View is how I pinpointed my location for the recent Transportation challenge. I used it to find the coolest metro stop in town and even though I ventured away from it a little bit, most of my shots, including the one I submitted, came from the location I "scouted" using Street View.

That said, Aaron does make a good point. No "digital scouting" can compare to being there, seeing it first hand and creating your own unique vision, but maybe the "digital scouting" can get you in the right area to create your vision!

Tango

gorgeous photo Ken, and a great example of scouting for success. far easier compared to footing it...hahaha