Upgrade, would 30D be enough?

ERue

I desperately need to upgrade my camera. I have a Rebel XT, and it's really starting to feel like a toy. I know most people would tell me to go with glass upgrades first, but I think I'm wearing out my poor little camera.
I feel so limited by the massive amount of grain, even sometimes at 400 ISO and the very few focal points. It's not as quick as I would like, either.
Would a 30D be enough of an upgrade right now? I would love a 50D or gently used 5D, but honestly, I don't have the money to swing that right now. I have a ton of free/portfolio building sessions coming up in the next two months, and although these are learning sessions for me, I would still like to produce professional looking photos. I can definitely do the $350ish amount for a gently used 30D.
Would that be enough for me right now, then later down the road, when I'm actually getting paid for my time, upgrade to full frame?

Tee Why

In terms or absolute image quality, the XT and the 30D are pretty much identical. So if you are seeing noise at ISO 400, shooting with the same parameters with a 30D will give you just as much noise. I've had both cameras and I found the image quality pretty much same.

As for the build quality, it's better, AF is faster. As for AF points, if you are finding that you need more, then that may be a factor.

I'm going to be brutally honest here. If you aren't producing professional quality images with the XT (which I think it's capable of doing), simply switching to the 30D will most likely not make any noticeable difference, especially if you aren't shooting high speed action where the higher fps and faster AF may be a factor.

If it was me, I'd get a nice lens like a 50mm f1.4, 85mm f1.8, may be a macro lens, or a Canon 430EX flash, depending on what you are looking to shoot. Getting a grip on the XT would make it look more serious. If you don't have Photoshop, I think getting a grip and a PSE 7 may be a good idea as well.

Don't get me wrong, I like upgrading my toys too, so I can also appreciate your desire to upgrade.

Tee Why

Just looked at your shots, they look pretty darn nice to me. You seem to be into portrait work. In which case, I'm not sure if upgraded features on the 30D would help as you may not need the faster response of the 30D.

ERue

Tee Why wrote:

Just looked at your shots, they look pretty darn nice to me. You seem to be into portrait work. In which case, I'm not sure if upgraded features on the 30D would help as you may not need the faster response of the 30D.

Thanks...
I totally understand that professional quality of shots for the most part rely on the external operator.

So, what would your suggestion, other than glass, be for my situation? Just wait? I'm so antsy.

Tee Why

Just wait and save up for a 50D, 5D or a 5DMII?

If you are into headshots, a 85mm f1.8 would be very nice as well.

A battery grip on the XT will make it look more serious as well.

jrmyrnsm

Tee Why wrote:

Just wait and save up for a 50D, 5D or a 5DMII?

If you are into headshots, a 85mm f1.8 would be very nice as well.

A battery grip on the XT will make it look more serious as well.

Agreed! I had an XTi and the grip was one of the first things I bought for it. I'm pretty tall and have larger hands and the grip was a must have and definitely helped hold me over until I got into the xxD cameras. For me I went from a XTi to a 30D and never regretted it. Its true that image quality didnt really improve as much as it did when I got my 40D, but I went more for build quality and better control in manual exposure mode by having the joystick and thumbwheel so thats something to consider as well. As for the 85mm 1.8, I've got the Nikon version of this lens and it is a wonderful lens for portrait work! The focal length is wonderful! Good advice Tee Why!

ziggy53

Erica,

If you are into portraiture the best spent money would be for lighting related equipment. Lights, modifiers and other lighting accessories are not necessarily that expensive and controlled lighting will lend more towards quality than almost any other variable in your equipment.

Tee Why is correct that the XT/350D is very underrated and very capable in controlled conditions. Shoot RAW and expose properly and then process with care and it can yield very competent results.

Your EF 50mm, f1.8 and the Tamron 28-75mm, f2.8 are great lenses and very capable for portraiture.

poker

Please don't get a 30D to upgrade from an XT. Use it until it won't work no more. Save up for a 40D. It has features that truly separate it from the XT/20D/30D family.

Jekyll & Hyde

Software?

ERue wrote:

I feel so limited by the massive amount of grain, even sometimes at 400 ISO

J: I'd have to agree with Tom and others. The IQ would be almost indistinguishable. You'd have to make the big jump to the 5D for any improvement in Noise characteristics.

H: Do you have some good Noise Reduction software though? It can work wonders.

J: I really like Noise Ninja. I apply it selectively (to only certain areas of an image) so as not to destroy detail.

H: As an example, here's a shot taken with a very small P&S at max ISO. Processed with Noise Ninja...






J: The full-sized version can be found here...

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/image/110794016/original



H: And the full-sized original can be found here...

http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/image/55961141/original



J: I apologize. I don't have the full-sized color intermediate version posted to this gallery though.


H: Now keep in mind too that there's tons of 3rd party software out there aimed exclusively at the portrait artist. They can often save tons of time in Post, and the results can be amazing.

J: Just mebbe' you can accomplish in Post Processing what you are looking to do with equipment (in the short term).

H: Best of luck Erica,
J&H

ERue

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm not too worried about 'looking serious' really. I would like more to hold onto, and that is kind of what I meant by it seeming like a toy.

I've just heard mixed things here and there that the xxD series are just plain better than the xxxD series. So, I guess that means that the 40D and above is really the vast improvement?

ETA: J&H - Your post just made me ...very helpful info, though!

ziggy53

ERue wrote:

...

I've just heard mixed things here and there that the xxD series are just plain better than the xxxD series. So, I guess that means that the 40D and above is really the vast improvement?

ETA: J&H - Your post just made me ...very helpful info, though!

I have the XT/350D, 40D, 1D MKII and 5D MKII, and the 5D MKII is the only one that is dramatically better in ways that would probably matter to you. For the money, a used 5D (original) is probably the best value for features in a portrait situation, but lighting and lenses will make a more visible impact overall.

tjstrider

I went from the XT with the grip to the 30D and i could never go back. It is too nice. it is in every way easier to work with because the formate of the controls in better. That being said, i don't think that my images got that much better b/c i was using the same high quality L glass on both things but it definitely is a better shooting experience. I vote for the 40D it is if you sell the XT a great option. (I am not jumping on the noisy50D wagon) I am just saying that the 40D will feel very nice for a long time, whereas little things about the 30D seem oldish right now...
like the smaller screen and the older menus and such.

JohnBiggs

I just don't see the need to jump to the 40D. If anything save for the 5D mk1.

If you want more to handle for big hands, get a grip.

If you want better controls then get the 30D.

The 40D has more noise than the 30D according to DXO Mark. This makes sense, the more megapixels per square inch, the more noise. If a camera doesn't have more noise, then it just has more incamera noise reduction which then reduces sharpness.

I'd rather have less noise and apply the noise reduction outside of the camera with better software and make the best choice for detail vs NR.

The 5D mk1 has a very low megapixel density. It's going to handle noise very well.

ERue

JohnBiggs wrote:

I just don't see the need to jump to the 40D. If anything save for the 5D mk1.

If you want more to handle for big hands, get a grip.

I'd rather have less noise and apply the noise reduction outside of the camera with better software and make the best choice for detail vs NR.

I'm not quite understanding what you mean with the less noise and apply noise reduction outside the camera. Do you mean start with less noise in camera? I know what you mean by having more control with the detail with the NR PP, though.

BTW-I don't have big hands...I'm a small girl all of 5'2" but just wanted it to feel more sturdy.
Just wanted to clarify.

PeterLyons

The only two digital SLRs I've owned are the XT and the 5D. I've shot quite a lot with both. It's a HUGE upgrade. Have also shot with a rented 40D. (And have a 5D MkII shipping to me now -- woohoo!!!)
Anyway, I'd look for a nice used 5D. Full frame is worth it. Way cleaner image.

JohnBiggs

ERue wrote:

I'm not quite understanding what you mean with the less noise and apply noise reduction outside the camera. Do you mean start with less noise in camera? I know what you mean by having more control with the detail with the NR PP, though.

BTW-I don't have big hands...I'm a small girl all of 5'2" but just wanted it to feel more sturdy.
Just wanted to clarify.

The gist is jumping to the 40D will either give you more noise or a softer image. And moving to the 30D doesn't get you much over what you have.

Wait until you can just get a 5D and keep the XT as a backup or when you want the crop factor. All in all, the 5D is going to give you the biggest difference.

JohnBiggs

Ohh, And I had grips on all my cameras for years. I swore by them. However I recently switch back to no grips. The grips add weight and for me weddings are tiring enough without that added weight. There is the argument for having two batteries, but I can go to several weddings on one charge, so why always lug the two batteries.

bobw

I have a 30D and a 40D......the 40 is MUCH better. The 30D is a dust magnet and requires manual sensor cleaning every time I change the lens. The 40 has auto sensor cleaning and I never have a dust problem.
Then there is the 3 inch LCD on the 40D.....so much better than the 30D.