RUNWAY SHOOT: Advice Needed please

Art Scott

Nope not at an airport.....for the ERIC FISHER HAIR ACADEMY......it happens on Thursady evening and I have one cam out being serviced....only leaves me one body and now I need to decide if I shoot 224-70 ot 70-210 both are f2.8...........
Any one have runway experience....please give pointers......flash??? no flash???...the last time i did anything remotely like this was in the late 1880's.......oops I mean 1980's.......and I too in studio lighting and hung from the ceiling of the club it was in.....for this I have no say on lighting or anything...

I am looking at going with body on flash bracket and wireless flash triggger...all a top a monopod.....if I can get to the side a bit maybe go tripod......going to try for a meet up with the project coordinator also.

rwells

Art,

I've never shot one of these events, but here is a video that shows a simple way to light the event.

http://www.todayifeellike.com/videos/strobist_fashion.mov


Hope that helps...

thenimirra

rwells wrote:

Art,

I've never shot one of these events, but here is a video that shows a simple way to light the event.

http://www.todayifeellike.com/videos/strobist_fashion.mov


Hope that helps...

that's a great video. Thanks for sharing it! And good luck to you Art....lighting runway shows are some of the most difficult for me because the lighting is usually dark and terrible, but that video seems awful handy. Make sure to tell us how it went.

Art Scott

RWells...thanks for the video and thenimirra...I will let you know how it goes.........charging batteries now......2 shows..short 30min I think as one is 6pm and the other at 7pm........going to be fun......Uh Oh.....gotta dress up a bit......pants and shirt to cleaners also.....gotta go

thenimirra

Art Scott wrote:

RWells...thanks for the video and thenimirra...I will let you know how it goes.........charging batteries now......2 shows..short 30min I think as one is 6pm and the other at 7pm........going to be fun......Uh Oh.....gotta dress up a bit......pants and shirt to cleaners also.....gotta go

Good luck and have fun!

Nikolai

Art,
runways are fun, albeit a bit exhausting...

If you can bring your off camera lights - do so. I did use my sunpacks and consistently had much better pictures than my speedlites-toting competitors.

Since it's a hair academy you probably won't be interested in whole height frames, hence I'd opt for 70-200. One thing for sure: even if you had 2d body, there is NO time to switch bodies, trust me on this. So unless you have a second shooter/assistant you'd only need one. Altough I'm talking about my LA experience, maybe your local shows are more relaxed and girls really take their time strolling:-)

You may also set your camera's AF to AI Focus, as in shooting sports: those dames move *fast*, so if you plan to catch them on the run the AI will save you from quite a few OOFs...

Frame loosely. It's better to have some extra space you can trim out in post than missing an ear or a heel.

Have water with you. Come early and claim the prime spot in front of the runway. Don't leave it - it'll be taken.

HTH

Art Scott

Thanks Nikolai
What do you feel is the prime place(s) to shoot from?? Midway, end of runway or some where else?? Not going to carry the sunpaks as the batteries are not holding a charge...so it is just gonna be the 7D with 5600hs on a bracket....DO you shoot with or without a diffuser???


......will get there early enuff to see how long the runway is.......I am thinking maybe 35-50feet max.....it may be shorter since it is in the Academy it self.........

Nikolai

Art Scott wrote:

Thanks Nikolai
What do you feel is the prime place(s) to shoot from?? Midway, end of runway or some where else?? Not going to carry the sunpaks as the batteries are not holding a charge...so it is just gonna be the 7D with 5600hs on a bracket....DO you shoot with or without a diffuser???


......will get there early enuff to see how long the runway is.......I am thinking maybe 35-50feet max.....it may be shorter since it is in the Academy it self.........

Prime spot is at the outer end, so the models going straight towards you, pause in front of you and then go back. When I was shooting solo I was simply using 17-55/2.8 and was mostly concentrating on full height shots. When I had an assistant I had her/him shooting headshots with 70-200/2.8.

Diffuser... depends on the ceiling. I shot with dark/high ceilings, so no diffuser would help.

How about geting a new batteries? It's not like you're buying a Tesla car, all you need is 6 AAs per unit, they would last you at least one shoot without a hitch.

Art Scott

Nikolai wrote:

Prime spot is at the outer end, so the models going straight towards you, pause in front of you and then go back. When I was shooting solo I was simply using 17-55/2.8 and was mostly concentrating on full height shots. When I had an assistant I had her/him shooting headshots with 70-200/2.8.

Diffuser... depends on the ceiling. I shot with dark/high ceilings, so no diffuser would help.

How about geting a new batteries? It's not like you're buying a Tesla car, all you need is 6 AAs per unit, they would last you at least one shoot without a hitch.

Like an idiot I did not get the battery holder.....only the rechargeable holder ..... may have to look into ebay for battery holders fopr the future........

Thnks for all the advice.

Art Scott

not 1 good shot,,,the end of this saga
not one good shot came from the show.....quite a learning experience.....it was totally dark except for back lighting provided aby a set of Paul Buff Zap 1600 on full powerdunno.....oh gawd, if I had known the students (all female with no light training at all) was setting up the lighting I would have volunteered to set up something........there were a total of 6 photogs and all went way with unusable frames.......we discussed it with the project coordintor who said she would like to get some lighting for the runway area and such...so i am now searching for par lighting (par 16 or 32 possibly) taht can easily be hung from a drop ceiling rails........and some sort of dimmer to be controlled from the back of the room..............it wa fun tho as the graduating students had to do hair, make-up and clothes and Eric showed just before it started having just finished a fashion show in Chicago..........but even tho the photos were a bust I got asked to come back in approx 10 weeks for another show..........
I did take a few after shoots that some of the graduates and their models wanted and gave out a lot of b-cards.........so it wasn't a total bust......
now all of my Quantum batteries are headed out for re-build and so are my sunpak cl-3's......not getting caught without lighting again.......they have no contracted photog and that just might become me if i work it right.....

rwells

Hmmm... 1600's set full power from the back - but they were only on when the photog that was using them took each shot, unless they had the modeling lights on high also. That would have been a nuisance, but why did that keep you from getting any shots?


No usable pics? I take it you didn't setup your lights?

I know you have extensive experience shooting stage events, I'm just a little confused why you didn't come away with anything usable.

Nikolai

Art Scott wrote:

not one good shot came from the show.....quite a learning experience.....it was totally dark except for back lighting provided aby a set of Paul Buff Zap 1600 on full powerdunno.....oh gawd, if I had known the students (all female with no light training at all) was setting up the lighting I would have volunteered to set up something........there were a total of 6 photogs and all went way with unusable frames.......we discussed it with the project coordintor who said she would like to get some lighting for the runway area and such...so i am now searching for par lighting (par 16 or 32 possibly) taht can easily be hung from a drop ceiling rails........and some sort of dimmer to be controlled from the back of the room..............it wa fun tho as the graduating students had to do hair, make-up and clothes and Eric showed just before it started having just finished a fashion show in Chicago..........but even tho the photos were a bust I got asked to come back in approx 10 weeks for another show..........
I did take a few after shoots that some of the graduates and their models wanted and gave out a lot of b-cards.........so it wasn't a total bust......
now all of my Quantum batteries are headed out for re-build and so are my sunpak cl-3's......not getting caught without lighting again.......they have no contracted photog and that just might become me if i work it right.....

Sorry...:cry
Silly question: why didn't you switch to speedlite or simply high ISO (or both)? I've shot in some VERY dark venues, never came back empty

Art Scott

rwells wrote:

No usable pics? I take it you didn't setup your lights?

I know you have extensive experience shooting stage events, I'm just a little confused why you didn't come away with anything usable.

No i did not set up any lights...first time in the academy except for getting my hair cut there...........
I cannot figure it out either as I was up at iso1600 shooting manual f5.6 as low as 1/10 sec also a +2FEC........
as for the ZAPS......full modeling light and full flash power...it was like the flash was continously flashing with all of us shooting....I was no more than 15-18 feet from run way......got to looking at my speedlight contacts and they are a little trnished, which may be why they were not out putting enuff power........I will post some later......pre show stuff should look decent after I get rid of the flourscent green.......

Nikolai wrote:

Sorry...:cry
Silly question: why didn't you switch to speedlite or simply high ISO (or both)? I've shot in some VERY dark venues, never came back empty

Yeah me either........I have shoot in some terrible venues and even out side in the dark with a speedlite and gotten decent portraits......

Will post some this weekend.

Nikolai

Art Scott wrote:

...full modeling light and full flash power...it was like the flash was continously flashing with all of us shooting....

That is most likely the reason. No entry/mid-level strobe can candle constant drainage, especially at full power. I'm wondering how you guys didn't melt it at all..
I never "share" my light on such events, at least without prior agreement. While sometimes you can have it usable with two shooters (yet prepare for occasional dark frames), three or more on the same "channel" is a sure recipe for a disaster.

pblocal

interesting thread, I picked up a little insight for the future!
thx

btw - better luck next time...

Art Scott

Nikolai wrote:

That is most likely the reason. No entry/mid-level strobe can candle constant drainage, especially at full power. I'm wondering how you guys didn't melt it at all..
I never "share" my light on such events, at least without prior agreement. While sometimes you can have it usable with two shooters (yet prepare for occasional dark frames), three or more on the same "channel" is a sure recipe for a disaster.

We weren't sharing.....the ZAPS were in use by the Academy as a source for the backlighting of the stage to give the silhouette type of light but were positioned completely wrong......I too am surprised that there was a total melt down even tho the Zaps are fan cooled.....
BUT.....my own prob was cause by faulty communication of strobe to camera as far as I can tell..........I had 2 pins on the shotshoe that were almost black with tarnish and after some diligent pencil erasering in a circular motion it allseems to be communicating and staying in manual mode as I wanted then or it will now alter its power according to rooml light etc...etc.....so all seems to be well in the world of automated program hotshoe strobes of the Minolta kind for now.......just glad it was nothing more than a liittle tarnish on it soul.....wink

Art Scott

pblocal wrote:

interesting thread, I picked up a little insight for the future!
thx

btw - better luck next time...

Thanx.....teaches me that this newer stuff might need a litle more care....this was the first time I used this high dollar flash since I bought it.....it has been a freeloader of sorts, just riding aroundin my bag and watching the Sunpak's getting used for all their flash outputting glory......or maybe it was just p***ed of and trying to make a point by saying I should have used it at least some to keep the tarnish off its contacts:D:D:D

Art Scott

The Saga Drags On.....but It Is Educating
There seems to be a service advisory out from sony on the KM 7D's........shutter problems......I sent one in for service and was given quote.....due to service advisory...I am getting rebuilt for free......explains not getting good pics with that camera......
Also another contributor to the dark photos was as mentioned above what seems to be a hyper sensitive light sensor in the 5600HS D flash...as stated above I did some experimenting at home with studio lighting.....now the kicker for me.....I use rechargable batteries or a quantum 1.......for some reason I lose control of the flash functions with these......so I bought some duracell AA and tried them.....everything works perfectly......went thur owners manual and found NO reference to NOT useing rechargable batters or battery packs......I am going back to using SunPack 622's for everything I need a spedlight for........damn computerized flashes

Now waiting to hear from sony as to whether or not to send in my 2nd KM7D or just wait until it fails completely also...........

Nikolai

damn computerized flashes

so true...
I wonder if anybody is still making a simple location strobes with no gimmicks, just a power regulator, maybe a zoom control and an optical slave...

Quzol1

I may be able to shed some light on the battery thing. I use wireless microphones a lot. As of the current tech, all the mic manufactures recommend non rechargeable battery's. The reason is the way the rechargeable battery's discharge. You are using AA's? so you start with 1.5volts and the voltage slope's right down to 0 volts in a rechargeable. So you do not get a constant 1.5 volts as it discharges. A alkaline battery will hold 1.5v's as long as it can then just keel over and die. Dose that make sense.