Pricing / Where the Industry is Going
jhelms
Registered Users Posts: 651 Major grins
Cliff Notes: this post is pretty long but the basic question is about charging more up front and expecting less of the profits to come through prints, etc.
I've read a few things in some photography forums and blogs lately
about the industry moving towards pricing more for the service and
away from pricing larger profits through print delivery.
There are volumes of opinions on the subject but the main points
revolve around the client base being less concerned with delivery of
the photographs through large prints and less concerned with
purchasing additional prints; instead preferring to use digital means
of sharing those photographs (through various methods - this isnt'
meant to be a discussion of whether or not they are provided with the
files from the photographer or whether they scan them in, etc.).
So the bottom line was that we may see a gradual shift towards
photographers recognizing that profits need to be loaded on the front
end and counting less on a large portion coming from high profit
margin enlargements.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out - on one hand if we
are truly charging for the creation of the photograph, then maybe it
wouldn't be so bad to price in more of a 'front heavy' way.
I'm definitely not saying that this is anything that we'll see a major
shift with immediately, but moreso that there seems to be a gradual
movement for now.
Let's talk in %'ages to clarify what you think about this - maybe a 2
part question:
1) How much % of your current profit do you expect and/or avg just
based on the initial shoot, or the lowest, most basic package that you
provide, and then how much % of your profit do you expect and/or avg
once your total transaction with the client is over - prints,
enlargements, framing, books, albums, etc.
2) How would your pricing structure change if client demands for the
'physical' print delivery was reduced and you began to need to
generate ~80-90%+ of your profit on the front end?
Much like the avg ~$50 charge for 8x10's that we see, I'd love to see a higher charge for the initial shoot, sitting fee, etc. With hobbyists making the transition into paid photography, I constantly see examples of websites where people show impressive work, yet their fees are miniscule - borderline "not-worth-their-time". Stuff like $75 sitting fee, etc. but if you look at it
from the standpoint of... the same amount of time and effort will put
put into the sitting, editing, etc. whether they buy one print or
several then it would make sense to charge more up front.
I've read a few things in some photography forums and blogs lately
about the industry moving towards pricing more for the service and
away from pricing larger profits through print delivery.
There are volumes of opinions on the subject but the main points
revolve around the client base being less concerned with delivery of
the photographs through large prints and less concerned with
purchasing additional prints; instead preferring to use digital means
of sharing those photographs (through various methods - this isnt'
meant to be a discussion of whether or not they are provided with the
files from the photographer or whether they scan them in, etc.).
So the bottom line was that we may see a gradual shift towards
photographers recognizing that profits need to be loaded on the front
end and counting less on a large portion coming from high profit
margin enlargements.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out - on one hand if we
are truly charging for the creation of the photograph, then maybe it
wouldn't be so bad to price in more of a 'front heavy' way.
I'm definitely not saying that this is anything that we'll see a major
shift with immediately, but moreso that there seems to be a gradual
movement for now.
Let's talk in %'ages to clarify what you think about this - maybe a 2
part question:
1) How much % of your current profit do you expect and/or avg just
based on the initial shoot, or the lowest, most basic package that you
provide, and then how much % of your profit do you expect and/or avg
once your total transaction with the client is over - prints,
enlargements, framing, books, albums, etc.
2) How would your pricing structure change if client demands for the
'physical' print delivery was reduced and you began to need to
generate ~80-90%+ of your profit on the front end?
Much like the avg ~$50 charge for 8x10's that we see, I'd love to see a higher charge for the initial shoot, sitting fee, etc. With hobbyists making the transition into paid photography, I constantly see examples of websites where people show impressive work, yet their fees are miniscule - borderline "not-worth-their-time". Stuff like $75 sitting fee, etc. but if you look at it
from the standpoint of... the same amount of time and effort will put
put into the sitting, editing, etc. whether they buy one print or
several then it would make sense to charge more up front.
John in Georgia
Nikon | Private Photojournalist
Nikon | Private Photojournalist
0
Comments
Nikon | Private Photojournalist
I have no issues with value-pricing myself. I have bought plenty of stuff in my life that I know full-well is value-priced rather than cost-priced. (Apple computers, most of my audio gear, etc.).
But in many respects it does seem that the value of photography is going down. And in that case, if that is true, then value-pricing becomes difficult to do and the business will likely need to go to a cost-priced model. As you point out, this might mean making more money up-front in terms of the sitting fee, and discounting the re-print fees.
One concern is how does this reward the better photographers for a job well done? Are they able to extract a higher sitting fee than the less talented photographers?
For what its worth, I'm attempting to do what you are suggesting with car photography. Charge a sitting fee that justifies my time and charge little for prints and files. It hasn't been going well (possibly due to marketing more than anything else), but I already know that this is a business model that will sustain a hobby and not sustain a business or become a major source of income.
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
If you think about it, commercial, wedding, and sports shooters have been doing this forever.
Too many new pros or hoping to be pros try to reinvent the wheel.
Website
Actually many of the portrait and wedding photographers that I spoke to said that a good portion of their expected profits are from print sales and books, albums and framed enlargements.
Nikon | Private Photojournalist
Most sport shooters shoot on SPEC. (Speculative Sales), unless your contracted by a company or individual. I don't know of any pro sports shooters that make a living on the "shoot".
ditto. I do NOT get paid to show up at a horse show, although I do make sure I get credit as the official show photographer. My income is entirely back-end from the sales, although I do as MUCH as possible (really, it's getting over the top) to drum up enough interest on the front end to keep folks coming to the site.
Are those who shoot for magazines or newspapers?
The guys I personally know shoot for the team / organization and work at assigned rates. They are allowed to sell images to the newspaper or magazine also, but I don't know if the photographer gets all the money or if it is split.
When my boss sends me to shoot high school games we are paid for the time with a certain number of images guaranteed.
They are given the option of ordering additional prints.
Website
A former sports shooter
Follow me at: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bjurasz/
My Etsy store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/mercphoto?ref=hdr_shop_menu
You left this out of my quote:
"... unless your contracted by a company or individual. I don't know of any pro sports shooters that make a living on the "shoot"."
Most sports/event shooters shoot on SPEC sales. If you are contracted by a company/association/individual, then yes you are making money on the "shoot". But I personally know of no one who makes a living on a single contract. I have had several contracts to shoot sporting events during the year, but there is no way I can make my living with said contracts. They are simply one of many income streams through photography.
Man, where is that ONE BIG CONTRACT?
Hope that helps
The key to survival, especially now, is diversification AND being willing to set prices that fairly compensate oneself for the work done.
The problem is the other photographers in your area who charge PEANUTS for their time, barely cover their production costs for their prints, work their butts off because they're booked solid - and have second jobs to pay their bills. Duh?
Two photographers in my area did a joint-shoot-day a couple of weeks ago. For $30 (yes, that's THIRTY not three hundred) you got a 2-hour shoot - 1 hour with each photographer - plus some prints and a CD. They were booked solid. Surprised?
Both are good photographers and should be charging much, much more - but they seem to be focused on volume as opposed to profitability. I just don't get it. Then again, I'm no where near as busy as them, either.
I recently offered a "Mothers Day" special deal, limited appointments and a sweet price for the client (to fill in some dead time). Got 4 appointments out of it - not worth doing. But hopefully those clients will be so happy that they'll tell 2 friends, who'll tell 2 friends etc.etc. etc.
As for event photography; I request two things - a minimum of $100 or $200 per day (depending on what's involved) and/or being provided with a suitable booth space with electricity at no charge plus frequent announcer promos to participants and spectators to drive business. it helps a little. There's really no money in events for the time and effort put into capturing the images, in my opinion.
I also am now subscribing to this model: pay for the photo shoot fairly and receive a CD with 2 sets of files - 1 websized for emailing to friends, and 1 sized for self-printing at the lab of their choice at 4 x 6. Any larger prints they can go on-line to my SM site and order. It's middle-of-the road for the business model.
http://www.imagesbyceci.com
http://www.facebook.com/ImagesByCeci
Picadilly, NB, Canada
Payment for my photographer's time was completely front-loaded. In return, we received all of our images in digital form with full rights for our private use (i.e., print as we wanted). We did not purchase any additional products after the fact, and I don't think she expected us to either. Her rate sheet looks like it support this front-loading, since I wasn't far off her published rates.