Rock n' roll photography
Cosmocat
Registered Users Posts: 8 Beginner grinner
Hi,
I'm new to digital grin and am just starting to turn pro as a photographer. I do a lot of rock 'n roll photography at clubs. Some of the bands want to use my photos (which are posted at akmarto.smugmug.com) and I have no idea what to charge them. So far it's mostly for use on their websites. I also need to know what to charge to go out and specially photograph an artist live. And, what legalities and business stuff should I be aware of? Thanks.
I'm new to digital grin and am just starting to turn pro as a photographer. I do a lot of rock 'n roll photography at clubs. Some of the bands want to use my photos (which are posted at akmarto.smugmug.com) and I have no idea what to charge them. So far it's mostly for use on their websites. I also need to know what to charge to go out and specially photograph an artist live. And, what legalities and business stuff should I be aware of? Thanks.
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Welcome to Dgrin!
I'm not a band photographer, so I'm afraid I can't answer your Q's
However, here's a bump to see if any members can help with your questions....
Just a note you may want to add your site as a link in your signature like I've done, will help out a bunch down the road (via 'edit signature')
rich56k
Member: ASMP; EP; NPPA; CPS
First off, nice photos!
Now on to your questions- you're asking a whole lot more than can be answered in a post on a message board!
If you're not familiar with copyright, model release , licensing photos, advertising, tax issues ( both collecting state taxes on your services and paying income taxes), insurance, and your cost of doing business, then you are not anywhere near ready to turn pro.
There is so much more to 'turning pro' than clicking the shutter to create a nice photo.
Regarding what to charge, you first need to know what your cost of doing business is-
how much are your monthly bills? how much is the cost and maintenance of your equipment? how much work do you have booked? How much time will this work take in terms of travel, doing the shoot, post -processing, billing, and getting the final product to your client?
THere are lots of stickies at the top of this forum to get you headed in the right direction - asking the right questions- and showing you where to start off doing your business research.
You will also need the advice of a good tax attorney so you don't get in trouble with uncle sam.
Good luck- but do your research, too!!
These are 11 great things to consider before getting started. Too many people get started before they think everything through. Prior to knowing what to charge, you have to know your total costs.
Website
Thanks to everyone who replied to my post. It looks like I've got a lot to learn about the biz. You've given me a good starting point. I have a lot of research to do. I'm sure I'll learn it all a little at a time. At this point I'm still having trouble finding bands who not only like my work but can actually pay me. Struggling musicians are not exactly swimming in excess funds. I'm still having fun with it and it isn't my only source of income so we'll see what happens. In the mean time I've got my homework cut out for me. And please, keep posting, especially if you've done the king of photography I'm talking about.
Hi Anita! I'm with you on this one. I've been taking pictures of bands playing at the local bars for a few months and starting my business as well. Personally, I think you are on the right track already since you have a Pro Account (Nice pictures by the way).
The approach that worked for me so far has been to make sure your website is up to snuff and appears as proffessional as you can. The help pages and dGrin were very helpful to me considering I had never done HTML before. I was also able to find a lot of references on the internet.
Next up and very important are business cards. They don't have to be fancy and you can find inexpensive deals all over the net. Check out vistaprint.com where you can even get free cards to start out with. After shooting a band, hand the cards out so that they know where to go and give them a time frame. Take note of the bands name and if they list a MySpace page, write it down. As soon as you get home, look them up on MySpace (You have an account, right? ;-) and add them as a friend AND send them a message to re-introduce yourself. Don't forget to include a link to your website.
Process the photos and once they are posted, go back to MySpace and send them another message with a link directly to their gallery. You have to get these up as soon as you can.
You have to be honest with yourself about wether or not most of these bands are going to pony up the money. The majority that I've come across so far want them for free but forget that they don't give CD's of their music out for free. I have done trades if I really like their music where I'll email them watermarked photos for their MySpace pages.
When I upload the photos to SmugMug, I keep the resolution low and resize the images to as small as needed to be printable by SmugMug. I use the proof delay feature just in case someone orders a print.
So far this year I've sold a few downloads and I sell the low res files for about $5.00 each. That seems to be the going rate on the internet. I look at this as a way to gain exposure and figure one day it will lead to some band asking me to shoot portraits of the them where I can charge good money.
You can find pictures of my music galleries here.
Take care and I hop this helps.
-Anthony
IMAGES BY DeMEGLIO
www.ibdphotos.com
IMAGES BY DeMEGLIO
www.ibdphotos.com
Twitter | MySpace
Thanks for your suggestions Anthony. We're on the same page in a lot of ways. I just got a new business card with one of my favorite pix on it and have begun passing it out. I've also got the myspace thing covered. But, I definitely need to slick up my website (yours is really nice). I'm encountering the same problem as you though; the bands love my pix but aren't willing to pay anything for them. But, also like you, I think it will all pay off down the line. Keep me posted on how things progress for you.
-Best
Anita
Rock artist tend to want everything for free.....feel lucky and well paid if get free access to the show.......
The most generous artists I have shot were: Bo Diddley, Charlie Daniels, Dennis Robbins, Blues Sax player Joe Houston, Black Oak Arkansas, Ken Hensley of Uriah Heep (I had photos of his father golf coaching him), Asleep at the Wheel, Shelly West,.......what I have found is they love you taking photos and will work the camera in the ground and then want to use for free .......
I used to shoot 30+ rolls on a concert.......as soon as I found country stars willing to pay sight unseen and old blues players pretty much the same....I almost stopped shooting R&R.....
I showed up at a concert and did not raise a camera for the first 5 songs.....the band knew me as i had shot them 6 months earlier.....when they noticed I wasn't shooting them, they literally stopped andsked where my cameras were and why I wasn't shooting them......bluntly I said....Your to damn cheap to pay for my work and film and my time is not FREE!!.......the bass player threw me 2 Twenties as a deposit........
I was contracted to shoot the warm up band but they did not know that..............
is David Bergman. He is very much a PRO Photographer and I know that he does this kind of thing on a regular basis. One of the bands that he shoots quite often is the Barenaked Ladies. He also just recently shot Steven Page, former singer for the Barenaked Ladies, when he embarked on his solo career. You can find this stuff in his blog. Now, I'm not sure if he will give you any personal advice/feedback or not, but it is worth a shot. Here is his website:
http://www.davidbergman.net/
You can find his contact information in the Portfolio section of his site.
Dwayne
I know my shots are worth more than FREE (because everyone wants them... for freeeeeee) so I'll keep plugging away at it because I enjoy the pursuit of making a better image. May pursue the Country artist thing.. sounds interesting.
Here are a few of my images if you care to check them out.
http://weller.smugmug.com/gallery/7459331_szdJs#481192957_xnbqm-M-LB
http://weller.smugmug.com/gallery/7459331_szdJs#483971940_3obUM-M-LB
Good luck and keep on clickin' !
Coming from from animals and nature shooting in the daytime, I didn’t realize how hard concert/low light shooting was until I tried it after I contacted local bars/clubs to let them know I was interested in shooting live bands there. At one restaurant/bar, I became a regular, recognized for carrying my camera and shooting acts Thursday nights (let’s just say they know what non-alcoholic beverage I like to drink and it’s ready when I walk in).
At this club, I’ve photographed many indie artists and posted watermarked, very low-res images on the event’s Facebook group (not on my SmugMug site). I’ve been contacted to get them used on their websites and Facebook/MySpace pages. I leave a note for them to contact me if interested in using them. Everyone who has wanted an image, has contacted me instead of just taking them. Many of them are now prefacing their request though with, “I know I don’t have enough to pay you what your work is truly worth...”. Hey, at least them saying that, is progress. They DO know my work is worth FAR more than they can afford and wish they could pay more. I just give them something in proportion to the amount of money they do have.
My first sale was last Fall when I sold some hi-res images on a CD to one performer who asked how much I charged. She requested three images she liked and I sold them for $30 per image. She didn’t even blink at the price. She also provided a credit on her page *and* a link to my site! I have negotiated with others though, where they scrape up some cash and I tell them *what* they can get FOR that money (i.e. not to expect a CD full of hi-res, edited, fancy shots for a mere $50). :-D In one such low-budget case, I had a Jazz Trio from a small town ask me to shoot one of heir gigs (I was going to attend anyway). They had a very small amount of money left after paying for travel. I knew them and shot them before at the aforementioned club and that’s how they remembered me. I wanted to help them out, but I said for the amount of $$ they had, I can provide web images only and no editing (one of each member and a group shot on stage, so 4 images total) stipulating my credit and a link-back to my site to be part of the deal too, on their site. It has worked, and I’ve gotten more referrals from people willing to pay way more than that.
Having a couple of “big name” performers on my gallery also seemed to have helped me, because they also realized I don’t just shoot up-and-coming indie bands. I’ve shot at free outdoor concerts, or at clubs out of town on trips where celebrities have performed.
***
Not “rock & roll”, but I just shot a Fitness/Bodybuilding competition event (low light again!) and all the competitors/models have asked how much I charge and placed orders for specific images they like, after I send them my rates!
I’m definitely still learning to shoot, and unexpectedly, learning the pricing game (thanks to you Dgrin members!
http://www.pmbimages.com/People
Like FatNakedGuy, I'm striving to make better images, whether anyone wanted to buy them or not. That was my intent in the first place when I started practicing photographing people.
Oh, and thanks for that David Bergman link, Dwayne!
Paula
Film/TV Stills Photography
"When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt." ~ Henry J. Kaiser
Hey, thanks Dwayne. It's nice to know someone is making a living from this. David Bergman's stuff rocks. There's so much to learn. I'd like to be an assistant to someone like him.
Thanks Paula, for all the great info. It's nice to hear you're starting to get paid. I too am not a natural people person and I've have to step out of my comfort zone a lot. I'm learning so much about photography AND people. My other real love is nature also, but I don't get put there very often. The photos on your website are really good, you've come a long way in a short period of time. I'll have to branch out too, maybe into shooting bodybuilding. I can also see that I need to really slick up my website. Did you do yours yourself? Good luck and thanks again for sharing your story.
Good thing I love rock n' roll so much. I'm more than willing to shoot other genres though if they have deeper pockets. Hell, I'll shoot any low light event. Your work is beautiful. Thanks for the tips.
Excellent images Fat Guy! I like how you put them together in a slide show. With every post I read I becoming angrier and angrier that people aren't willing to pay for quality work from folks like you. I'm glad I have other sources of income at this point. It'll all pay off in the end.
Thanks Art. He threw money at you...I'll have to try that trick! And maybe it is time to branch out of the cubby-hole I'm in (L.A. indie scene). Gorgeous images of nature.
Thanks Cos. I used to create slideshows manually in ProShow but that takes way too long to do... especially since I'm not making $ by doing it. This very cool website I ran across for creating slide shows came to the rescue a couple of weeks ago. Check it out, they have a FREE option of up to 30 seconds I think.
http://animoto.com/?ref=imqxozkr
If you sign up for their All-Access Pass or professional account, use my referral # of IMQXOZKR for $5 off the $30 annual fee.
Here's another slide show I did recently:
http://weller.smugmug.com/gallery/7459331_szdJs#523853527_zb5Uk-A-LB