I don't think it's the camera as much as the big, honking lens. Put a 50/1.4 or other small prime on the body and it looks a lot less intimidating and people take less notice.
I think it depends on how crowded the scene is. On a busy street, the people next to you will notice a big lens, but they're not the ones you are shooting. I think people are mostly concerned with protecting their own immediate personal space. The only ones checking out what's happening in the distance are cops, drug dealers and pickpockets. And me, on occasion, with a honking white lens.
I don't think it's the camera as much as the big, honking lens. Put a 50/1.4 or other small prime on the body and it looks a lot less intimidating and people take less notice.
Well, both maybe.
I can't think of any of the great street photographers who used a telephoto, although I'm sure there must be a few. A slightly wide prime seems the standard choice for several reasons (hmmm, what are they?). I've already put black electrical tape over the big white letters on my new 5d (gasp!) and bought the 35 1.4, a sweet combination especially wide open and I can go one camera, one lens all day without the need for back surgery down the road.
I can't think of any of the great street photographers who used a telephoto, although I'm sure there must be a few. A slightly wide prime seems the standard choice for several reasons (hmmm, what are they?). I've already put black electrical tape over the big white letters on my new 5d (gasp!) and bought the 35 1.4, a sweet combination especially wide open and I can go one camera, one lens all day without the need for back surgery down the road.
The 40D/50mm combo is certainly less innocuous than the 24-70, but still looks professional, while the G9, held aloft, makes me look like just another tourist or hobbyist.
The difference between a telephoto and a wide lens (love the idea of the 35/1.4!)is the difference, in my opinion, between voyeurism and engaging with the world around me; I much prefer the latter.
Just something from an amateur here, I've noticed that if I wear my fiancee's Western Kentucky University shirt (not that it makes a difference probably, but they're a well known school for journalism, media) then it is usually assumed I am a student. Hopefully, after this stint in the Marine Corps, I am a WKU alumnus, but the photojournalism student comment goes a long way with some people when you don't have postcards/business cards and such.
I finally went to a Tokina 11-16mm 2.8 this last spring and to say the least it's been a real learning experience, I also agree that shooting from the chest works fine most of the time.
Unfortunately some of the incidents I shot at are individuals in various states of small emergency to tragedy. I've been pretty much lucky till about a week ago a lady at a fire scene started throwing things at me for simply taking pictures and unfortunately she was graced with a seat in the rear of a cruiser. I've seen relatively calm regular people slide a bandanna over their face while at a anti-war protest become violent like a mma fighter.
The nature of my pictures takes me to sensitive places where I'm only allowed to point the camera when it's against my face towards the subject in a certain area that won't reveal anything of importance. As a matter of fact I'll be doing a shot on Monday morning that took about 6 weeks worth of phone calls to set up that's arranged along those very guide lines.
When shooting truck pictures it most generally helps that people aren't in those pictures, once at a incident I do my best not to use images of people that would cause any real issues whether it be with OSHA or their chief.
If for some reason or another I really want to take pictures in the mall I'll take my Storm II with me and go to it.
People react to me when I'm shooting on the street. They hold hands over their faces. They ask me don't I think I should ask before I shoot. They call the police (really.)
I know this doesn't happen to everyone. I see it in their work. Just look at the work of almost any Magnum photographer. But you don't need to get that exalted. I know plenty of people who don't provoke fear and loathing when they take candid shots on the street.
So short of getting a whole body transplant to be reborn as a smallish woman, what can I do to be less conspicuous on the street? What do others do?
Welcome back!
All I can suggest is to try your damndest not to look like 'a photographer.' I know this doesn't apply to you - but leave the vest, bag, etc. at home. Next, move yourself and your camera as little as possible - If you keep hold your camera at the top of your chest, just below your chin, or even better keep it at your eye, then the motion of raising and lowering it isn't the attention getter it will otherwise be. Also, shoot with 'normal' to wide angle lens, and shoot close, rather than shooting with a big honking zoom, or tele, from further away. Look like you are sniping and people will take you for a sniper. Shoot with a big honking lens that says "Look at me!" and people will - look at you, and try to avoid you.
As for your problem, Rutt - I guess you're just a scary looking guy.
Oh - when all else fails, learn to shoot from the hip - but then you're not framing, and if you're not framing, you're not really photographing, your camera is.
Some things to avoid when shooting on the street:
Don't try to look like a real photographer - leave the photo vest, camera bag, and other paraphernalia behind;
Don't move quickly - it attracts attention;
Don't use a big honker lens - it attracts attention;
Don't keep the camera down around your hip and whip it to your eye each time you see something - it attracts attention. Instead, keep the camera at chest height when you're 'stalking' your prey - the less you throw the camera around, the less attention you'll attract.
This is good advice.
Do you have an idea of what is drawing their attention to you ?
Oh - when all else fails, learn to shoot from the hip - but then you're not framing, and if you're not framing, you're not really photographing, your camera is.
All I can suggest is to try your damndest not to look like 'a photographer.' I know this doesn't apply to you - but leave the vest, bag, etc. at home.
Unfortunately many of the areas I shoot in there are many vacant houses and it's the extreme lower end of the socioeconomic scale. Even when riding on company I never use a bag and the idea of a vest just gives me a really uncomfortable feeling of being seriously out of place. Due to being asked so many times if I was a cop the time came my hair was seriously grown out and it's time to get my ponytail cut off today........
Bruce Davidson is another king of street (and subway) photography.
The idea of framing the shot and waiting for the people to come and make it is a technique I've been practicing. In fact, it's part of why I started this thread. People smell the trap and avoid it.
Hmmmm...Well, Davidson is royal when it comes to taking fabulous photographs in the street. But having heard him speak recently I was more than a tad disappointed to hear him say that he always engages, and asks permission of, his subjects. He told the story of a photo of a woman on a park bench with two dogs, explaining that he first approached the dogs, befriending them. He then praised the dogs to the woman and asked if he could photograph them. When she said yes, he asked if he might include her in the photograph. . The resulting image is certainly a photo taken in a public place, but it is a very posed portrait, more like a fashion assignment than a traditional street photograph. Davidson said he has always worked this way - and in fact asked permission of all his subway subjects; a far cry from Walker Evans with his Contax 35mm rangefinder sewn into his coat.
Again, I love Davidson's work, and consider him one of the real masters of 35 mm photography - he has an eye that can only have come directly from on high. But after that evening, I find myself looking at the work in a new way.
Oh, and in response to Tony's post about carrying around a book of images to show people before he asks permission to photograph them - that's precisely what Davidson does.
Hmmmm...Well, Davidson is royal when it comes to taking fabulous photographs in the street. But having heard him speak recently I was more than a tad disappointed to hear him say that he always engages, and asks permission of, his subjects. He told the story of a photo of a woman on a park bench with two dogs, explaining that he first approached the dogs, befriending them. He then praised the dogs to the woman and asked if he could photograph them. When she said yes, he asked if he might include her in the photograph. . The resulting image is certainly a photo taken in a public place, but it is a very posed portrait, more like a fashion assignment than a traditional street photograph. Davidson said he has always worked this way - and in fact asked permission of all his subway subjects; a far cry from Walker Evans with his Contax 35mm rangefinder sewn into his coat.
Again, I love Davidson's work, and consider him one of the real masters of 35 mm photography - he has an eye that can only have come directly from on high. But after that evening, I find myself looking at the work in a new way.
Oh, and in response to Tony's post about carrying around a book of images to show people before he asks permission to photograph them - that's precisely what Davidson does.
I don't think it's black or white, no pun intended. Some situations call for engagement and interaction, some do not. And yes, they are both different animals. But to say, "this [particular method] is not street photography" is not accurate, imo, and is rather dogmatic. I like to keep my dogmatism right where it belongs, in religion.
I shoot from the hip (well, more accurately the belly button) and correct my framing with the crop tool afterwards. I don't ask permission, many of my subjects don't realise and the ones that do I give a happy smile to and that relaxes them completely.
Only had one person ever ask me to delete a picture, and I think he was a benefit cheat wanting no photographic evidence of the street job he was doing.
It does mean that I have no model release forms, so I can't use my pictures commercially. That's kind of fine, I wasn't planning to anyway. Here in the UK shooting in public is legal, no permission is required, and I shoot policemen and traffic wardens as a matter of principle - and they usually do notice.
This guy is the more military side of the British police and saw me take this picture. I smiled at him, he gave a lovely smile back - I wish I'd caught that picture...
If you want permission, why not take the photo and then let the individual know afterwards? You get the spontaneity and permission so you can sleep at night (if you need that to sleep). I did a 100 strangers project that required that you ask permission first. The photos were taken on the street but the point of the exercise was to get past the fear of asking so they knew they were being shot. It was great fun, met 100 interesting people in different parts of the world but got very different sorts of photos compared to my traditional approach. Each has its benefits and limitations.
The use of a camera is similar to that of a knife. You can use it to peel potatoes, or carve a flute. ~ E. Kahlmeyer
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
Speed
Shooting quickly is the key to getting photographs of people. If people have time to object to your photography, you are IMO, shooting too slowly. If you keep fiddling with your camera, it gives a person time to object. However if you accomplish your shot quickly, it is a Fait Acompli. There's not a lot people can or will do about it....
Another help is a longish lens. I do much of my people shooting with a 70-200mm f/4L IS lens on a 1.6x camera. This allows me to get shots of people while they are unaware of my camera and are not reacting to it. The ability to isolate people with selective depth of field is another advantage to using a long focal length lens.
Even when people are aware of your camera, shooting quickly with a smile and a nod, often diffuses objections...
However, in the USA, a male photographing children is frowned upon because of the "Chester The Molester" syndrome. I understand parents protectiveness of their children; so I don't shoot strange kids as a habit. I really enjoyed shooting in China. I felt that I could walk up and shoot any kid and the parents would not mind. On the contrary, they seemed flattered that I would want to shoot a picture of their kid. And, BTW, those kids were adorable...
There are times, however, when it is not a good idea to shoot pictures. That is when police or military tell you "NO PICTURES" as the Chinese Army Officer did when I was shooting these young Chinese Military Policemen. I looked in the opposite direction and shot from the waist. Not a smart idea in a foreign country but, I knew I could get the shot without the oficer being aware that I was shooting...
I think that some photographers' reluctance to shoot people results in many boring travel galleries of statues, buildings and trees with no people in evidence. People are what makes a foreign land interesting for me and, unless I bring back shots of the local people, I might as well not have brought my camera...
Shooting quickly is the key to getting photographs of people. If people have time to object to your photography, you are IMO, shooting too slowly. If you keep fiddling with your camera, it gives a person time to object. However if you accomplish your shot quickly, it is a Fait Acompli. There's not a lot people can or will do about it....
Another help is a longish lens. I do much of my people shooting with a 70-200mm f/4L IS lens on a 1.6x camera. This allows me to get shots of people while they are unaware of my camera and are not reacting to it. The ability to isolate people with selective depth of field is another advantage to using a long focal length lens.
Yours is one approach. I actually prefer a different one: shoot as wide as possible from as close as possible. My lens of choice has been a 17 - 40 on a FF. The photos have an entirely different characteristic to them, one that is certainly up close and personal.
Comments
I think it depends on how crowded the scene is. On a busy street, the people next to you will notice a big lens, but they're not the ones you are shooting. I think people are mostly concerned with protecting their own immediate personal space. The only ones checking out what's happening in the distance are cops, drug dealers and pickpockets. And me, on occasion, with a honking white lens.
Well, both maybe.
I can't think of any of the great street photographers who used a telephoto, although I'm sure there must be a few. A slightly wide prime seems the standard choice for several reasons (hmmm, what are they?). I've already put black electrical tape over the big white letters on my new 5d (gasp!) and bought the 35 1.4, a sweet combination especially wide open and I can go one camera, one lens all day without the need for back surgery down the road.
The 40D/50mm combo is certainly less innocuous than the 24-70, but still looks professional, while the G9, held aloft, makes me look like just another tourist or hobbyist.
The difference between a telephoto and a wide lens (love the idea of the 35/1.4!)is the difference, in my opinion, between voyeurism and engaging with the world around me; I much prefer the latter.
www.SaraPiazza.com - Edgartown News - Trad Diary - Facebook
Unfortunately some of the incidents I shot at are individuals in various states of small emergency to tragedy. I've been pretty much lucky till about a week ago a lady at a fire scene started throwing things at me for simply taking pictures and unfortunately she was graced with a seat in the rear of a cruiser. I've seen relatively calm regular people slide a bandanna over their face while at a anti-war protest become violent like a mma fighter.
The nature of my pictures takes me to sensitive places where I'm only allowed to point the camera when it's against my face towards the subject in a certain area that won't reveal anything of importance. As a matter of fact I'll be doing a shot on Monday morning that took about 6 weeks worth of phone calls to set up that's arranged along those very guide lines.
When shooting truck pictures it most generally helps that people aren't in those pictures, once at a incident I do my best not to use images of people that would cause any real issues whether it be with OSHA or their chief.
If for some reason or another I really want to take pictures in the mall I'll take my Storm II with me and go to it.
All I can suggest is to try your damndest not to look like 'a photographer.' I know this doesn't apply to you - but leave the vest, bag, etc. at home. Next, move yourself and your camera as little as possible - If you keep hold your camera at the top of your chest, just below your chin, or even better keep it at your eye, then the motion of raising and lowering it isn't the attention getter it will otherwise be. Also, shoot with 'normal' to wide angle lens, and shoot close, rather than shooting with a big honking zoom, or tele, from further away. Look like you are sniping and people will take you for a sniper. Shoot with a big honking lens that says "Look at me!" and people will - look at you, and try to avoid you.
As for your problem, Rutt - I guess you're just a scary looking guy.
Oh - when all else fails, learn to shoot from the hip - but then you're not framing, and if you're not framing, you're not really photographing, your camera is.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
This is good advice.
Do you have an idea of what is drawing their attention to you ?
.......But i disagree with this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-IOEAlBpSo
Unfortunately many of the areas I shoot in there are many vacant houses and it's the extreme lower end of the socioeconomic scale. Even when riding on company I never use a bag and the idea of a vest just gives me a really uncomfortable feeling of being seriously out of place. Due to being asked so many times if I was a cop the time came my hair was seriously grown out and it's time to get my ponytail cut off today........
Hmmmm...Well, Davidson is royal when it comes to taking fabulous photographs in the street. But having heard him speak recently I was more than a tad disappointed to hear him say that he always engages, and asks permission of, his subjects. He told the story of a photo of a woman on a park bench with two dogs, explaining that he first approached the dogs, befriending them. He then praised the dogs to the woman and asked if he could photograph them. When she said yes, he asked if he might include her in the photograph.
Again, I love Davidson's work, and consider him one of the real masters of 35 mm photography - he has an eye that can only have come directly from on high. But after that evening, I find myself looking at the work in a new way.
Oh, and in response to Tony's post about carrying around a book of images to show people before he asks permission to photograph them - that's precisely what Davidson does.
"He not busy being born is busy dying." Bob Dylan
"The more ambiguous the photograph is, the better it is..." Leonard Freed
I don't think it's black or white, no pun intended. Some situations call for engagement and interaction, some do not. And yes, they are both different animals. But to say, "this [particular method] is not street photography" is not accurate, imo, and is rather dogmatic. I like to keep my dogmatism right where it belongs, in religion.
www.SaraPiazza.com - Edgartown News - Trad Diary - Facebook
Only had one person ever ask me to delete a picture, and I think he was a benefit cheat wanting no photographic evidence of the street job he was doing.
It does mean that I have no model release forms, so I can't use my pictures commercially. That's kind of fine, I wasn't planning to anyway. Here in the UK shooting in public is legal, no permission is required, and I shoot policemen and traffic wardens as a matter of principle - and they usually do notice.
This guy is the more military side of the British police and saw me take this picture. I smiled at him, he gave a lovely smile back - I wish I'd caught that picture...
... I'm still peeling potatoes.
patti hinton photography
Shooting quickly is the key to getting photographs of people. If people have time to object to your photography, you are IMO, shooting too slowly. If you keep fiddling with your camera, it gives a person time to object. However if you accomplish your shot quickly, it is a Fait Acompli. There's not a lot people can or will do about it....
Another help is a longish lens. I do much of my people shooting with a 70-200mm f/4L IS lens on a 1.6x camera. This allows me to get shots of people while they are unaware of my camera and are not reacting to it. The ability to isolate people with selective depth of field is another advantage to using a long focal length lens.
Even when people are aware of your camera, shooting quickly with a smile and a nod, often diffuses objections...
However, in the USA, a male photographing children is frowned upon because of the "Chester The Molester" syndrome. I understand parents protectiveness of their children; so I don't shoot strange kids as a habit. I really enjoyed shooting in China. I felt that I could walk up and shoot any kid and the parents would not mind. On the contrary, they seemed flattered that I would want to shoot a picture of their kid. And, BTW, those kids were adorable...
There are times, however, when it is not a good idea to shoot pictures. That is when police or military tell you "NO PICTURES" as the Chinese Army Officer did when I was shooting these young Chinese Military Policemen. I looked in the opposite direction and shot from the waist. Not a smart idea in a foreign country but, I knew I could get the shot without the oficer being aware that I was shooting...
I think that some photographers' reluctance to shoot people results in many boring travel galleries of statues, buildings and trees with no people in evidence. People are what makes a foreign land interesting for me and, unless I bring back shots of the local people, I might as well not have brought my camera...
Yours is one approach. I actually prefer a different one: shoot as wide as possible from as close as possible. My lens of choice has been a 17 - 40 on a FF. The photos have an entirely different characteristic to them, one that is certainly up close and personal.