LR2 Database Question

Candid Arts

So I recently started using LR2 for my storage database for all my photos. What I've been noticing that I don't like is when I edit my RAW file, export to JPEG to a folder on my ext. HDD, it doesn't automatically get put into that folder in my LR database. Does that make sense?

Right now I have on my external HDD a set up like this:

People>Family
-Mom
-Dad
-Etc...
>Friends
-Jamie
-Chris
-Etc...
>Weddings
-Bob and Lucy
-Etc...

Within each folder I have all the RAWs, then another folder with all the JPEG versions. So when I import all the RAW files into LR, that entire folder is in LR, but when I export the JPEG pictures into the JPEG folder in that same main folder (with all the RAW files), the JPEG's don't get put into LR unless I go back and import again that entire folder. Which is fine for the first big batch, but when I do a single photo in this folder, and a single photo in that folder, 20 times, then I gotta import 20 more times for a single picture.

Is there a way to set LR up so that when you export a picture as a JPEG from a RAW file, that it automatically get's re-imported into the LR catalog?

I thinked I asked my question 4 times in 4 different ways.

Anyways, thanks for the help.

jopapeca

Hi

In the export dialog you have a option "add to this catalog" under the "export location" section.

After the export the JPG will be imported to the catalogue

Hope that help you.

Candid Arts

jopapeca wrote:

Hi

In the export dialog you have a option "add to this catalog" under the "export location" section.

After the export the JPG will be imported to the catalogue

Hope that help you.

Freakin sweet. That's all I needed. Damn how did I miss that?

Thank you! clap

eoren1

I'll add that, unless you need JPGs for some reason, LR actually makes those files redundant. I process my RAW files and post to smugmug via J Friedl's plugin. That creates a temporary JPG for upload. I have no need for creating JPGs otherwise as I can always make them in LR. That has greatly cut down on the size of my photo directories! I keep a backup of my RAW files and LR catalog on a separate external drive.
E

Candid Arts

eoren1 wrote:

I'll add that, unless you need JPGs for some reason, LR actually makes those files redundant. I process my RAW files and post to smugmug via J Friedl's plugin. That creates a temporary JPG for upload. I have no need for creating JPGs otherwise as I can always make them in LR. That has greatly cut down on the size of my photo directories! I keep a backup of my RAW files and LR catalog on a separate external drive.
E

Oooh... That's interesting. I suppose I don't actually need JPEGs most of the time on my computer. Hmmm...

So what is this "J Friedl's plugin" that you speak of? I looked on the smug mug site where you can view the different options for uploading, didn't see one that referenced that. There was a LR plugin, is that what you're talking about? Will that do the same thing that you say? Create a temporary JPEG to upload but otherwise not create a JPEG for saving on computer?

eoren1

Here you go:
http://regex.info/blog/lightroom-goodies/smugmug

Once I successfully transitioned to LR, the biggest 'aha' moment was realizing I no longer needed JPGs. You can even use virtual copies to make alternative edits of a photo with barely any disk usage - it's all in those sidecar xmp files. Because I don't keep JPGs, I make sure that 'write xmp changes' is enabled (it's in the preferences) and I backup the LR catalog everytime I open it.
E

By the way, that plugin was free for the past year or so but just went to donation ware. I paid up today and was happy to do so - it really is awesome

Thunder Rabbit

Howdy.

From what I read on the forums, Lr2 seems to be widely misunderstood, and hence underutilized. Or used in some way that works to negate its built in advantages.

Adobe offers great tutorials on the use of Lr2 (or any of its products). The standard help files are so simplified as to be of limited use, but the online tutorials are more in depth very worthwhile. Thirty minutes online checking out tutorials will save you hours of chasing your tail. Guaranteed. And this applies to all software.

So, to chime in with the guys above, my standard work flow doesn't come within ten miles of a jpg. I do export from Lr as jpgs for special purposes.

For some good Lr2 tutorials straight from the horses mouth, go here.

cmason

Another very simple thing you can do is to right click on the folder in LR and choose "Synchronize Folder". This will force LR to look in the folder and update the catalog. So for all those folders you have that dont have the JPEGs in the catalog, just go to the highest level in your catalog and force a sync.

jfriend

Candid Arts wrote:

Oooh... That's interesting. I suppose I don't actually need JPEGs most of the time on my computer. Hmmm...

I had a realization about a year ago, that I really didn't need to keep my JPEGs that were generated from LR because I could always get them back at any time. So, now what I do is I have a top level directory on my photo drive called Exports and each time I do an export, I create a new sub-directory with an intelligent name in that Exports directory. I put the generated JPEGs there, I use them for that purpose and sometime later when I feel like doing some disk housekeeping, I know that I can remove the old directories since there's no reason to keep them permanently or back them up or have them cluttering up my LR catalog.

cmason

jfriend wrote:

.... So, now what I do is I have a top level directory on my photo drive called Exports and each time I do an export, I create a new sub-directory with an intelligent name in that Exports directory. I put the generated JPEGs there, I use them for that purpose and sometime later when I feel like doing some disk housekeeping, I know that I can remove the old directories since there's no reason to keep them permanently or back them up or have them cluttering up my LR catalog.

I do a similar thing, but with an "Edits' folder within each folder of RAW files, just for JPEGs. But I rarely export to JPEG any longer, and use Jeffery Freidl's plugin to export to Smugmug w/o saving the actual JPEGs.

Andy

Candid Arts wrote:

I looked on the smug mug site where you can view the different options for uploading, didn't see one that referenced that. There was a LR plugin, is that what you're talking about?

Yes.

Candid Arts

This is awesome. However since I just started keeping all my photos in LR, most of my edits to my RAW files are lost and the only saved form of them is JPEG. So I must keep all the JPEGs of all my previous photos, but all the new ones that I have in my LR catalog since I've been keeping the RAW files in there I can delete.

So, the BACKUP that LR does automatically, saves all the files and their edits? I just checked the BACKUP that I just performed today, and it's only 52MB. Is that right?

jopapeca

Candid Arts wrote:

So, the BACKUP that LR does automatically, saves all the files and their edits? I just checked the BACKUP that I just performed today, and it's only 52MB. Is that right?

LR is non destructive, so it doesn't make any changes to files.
When you edit a file, the changes you make are saved as metadata in the database.
When LR backup, it's the database that is backed up, so all the changes you made are backed up, but that doesn't include any image files.

Candid Arts

Ok, so now what about the .xmp files? Should I be having LR make those as well?

w/o them, if I'm just doing the LR BACKUP, and an edited RAW file accidentally get's removed from the LR catalog, all the edits are gone right? Even though I have the BACKUP? So with the .xmp files...even if an edited RAW file accidentally get's removed from the LR database, I can re-import the RAW file, and the edits will still be there correct?

eoren1

xmp files are made automatically
if you then move files WITHIN lightroom, those xmp files follow the original RAW ones. If you move files OUTSIDE of lightroom, you have to make sure you move the xmp files too. Even with that, I'm not sure if you are guaranteed to not screw up the LR catalog that way.
Basically, just set the preference to 'write changes to xmp automatically' and do all your moving of photos within LR and you should be all set.
E

jfriend

jopapeca wrote:

LR is non destructive, so it doesn't make any changes to files.
When you edit a file, the changes you make are saved as metadata in the database.
When LR backup, it's the database that is backed up, so all the changes you made are backed up, but that doesn't include any image files.

Doesn't this depend upon whether you keep your images in the LR database or not?

I personally keep my images in the normal file system and then import them from there so I back up both the catalog and my images. But aren't there settings to tell LR to keep your images in the catalog too so all you backup is the catalog?

Candid Arts

eoren1 wrote:

xmp files are made automatically
if you then move files WITHIN lightroom, those xmp files follow the original RAW ones. If you move files OUTSIDE of lightroom, you have to make sure you move the xmp files too. Even with that, I'm not sure if you are guaranteed to not screw up the LR catalog that way.
Basically, just set the preference to 'write changes to xmp automatically' and do all your moving of photos within LR and you should be all set.
E

I don't mean actually moving the files to different folders, just if a file get's accidentally removed from the LR database but is still in the same place on my ext. HDD. If I re-import the same original RAW file from the original location back into LR, w/o a .xmp file the edits will be lost, and with an .xmp file, the edits will still be there. Right?

As well as this, if I make edits on a RAW file and have an .xmp file attached to it, if I close LR, open CS3, and open that file, since there is a .xmp file, all the edits I made in LR will be there in CS3 right?

Thunder Rabbit

Howdy.

It's hard to remove an image from your Lr catalog by accident. To delete an image you must go through a dialog box which is set by default to "Remove", which removes the image from your Lr database, but not your HD. You may also select "Delete", which removes it from your HD, and of course, your catalog.

In any case, if in your have your Lr Preferences set to automatically write the data into the XMP, it will still be there when you re-import it. And the edits will still be there for PS ACR or Bridge to read (If the ACR preferences are set properly. The default setting for Bridge CS3 is to ignore sidecar files).

colourbox

Candid Arts wrote:

I don't mean actually moving the files to different folders, just if a file get's accidentally removed from the LR database but is still in the same place on my ext. HDD.

There should be no risk of losing edits. If Lightroom loses track of a file, you have opportunities to relink it. If you see the question mark icon on the thumbnail, you click that and Lightroom says "...could not be found. Would you like to locate it?" If you click Locate and select the file, Lightroom will hook it back up to its edits. If a whole folder gets lost, you can right-click the folder in the Folders list and choose "Update Folder Location." Obviously, it is much preferable to use the relinking facilities provided in Lightroom since that will bring images and their edits back together, since as you know, re-importing the images makes you start over.

Thunder Rabbit wrote:

In any case, if in your have your Lr Preferences set to automatically write the data into the XMP, it will still be there when you re-import it. And the edits will still be there for PS ACR or Bridge to read (If the ACR preferences are set properly. The default setting for Bridge CS3 is to ignore sidecar files).

To add to that, if you happen to have the automatic XMP metadata writing turned off (a lot of people do, for performance reasons) there is a Metadata/Save Metadata to File command. But you don't have to remember where it is, just use its shortcut Command-S/Ctrl-S.

Thunder Rabbit

Howdy.

Colourbox is right if your image has not been removed from Lr, but has been moved on your hard drive.

But, in the event the image is removed from the Lr catalog, as in Candid Arts' question, it will have to be re-imported into the catalog, either by route of the "Synchronize Folder" or "Import" command. If all the metadata is attached in the XMP, nothing is lost, except virtual copies. (Only one set of metadata is in the XMP file, the original. The virtual copy metadata is only in the catalog and is lost if the original file is removed from the catalog.) In the event the metadata hasn't been saved in an XMP sidecar, you would have to start all over.

But this should be no big deal. Lr allows you to create and apply Develop and Metadata presets automatically as you import. I have Develop presets for different cameras under different situations. (You can set Lr to automatically select and apply develop & metadata presets based on the camera serial number in the EXIF.) If you have your own presets, when you re-import, use the appropriate presets, and you will be pretty close to where you were, automatically. Your custom preset menu is offered to you in both the import dialog box and the Develop module User Preset panel. (If you don't already have user presets for develop settings and metadata, make some!)

But, in the end, accidentally dropping a file from your Lr catalog seems quite unlikely. Less likely than accidentally deleting a file from your hard drive.

Colourbox describes the more usual scenario, and as he points out, Lr has you covered.

colourbox

And the reason I mentioned saving metadata to the file (or XMP) is for the scenario where it's actually deleted from the catalog. If that happens but metadata was saved out, you can re-import the file and get almost all your edits back. What you don't get back are virtual copies and history, but the saved metadata hangs on to almost everything else: Edits, snapshots, keywords, IPTC, etc. The removed file may get deleted from collections, but it may find its own way back into Smart Collections if the criteria on which the Smart Collection was based is still in the metadata.

Candid Arts

2 Questions.

1) What are smart collections?

2) When you do BACKUPS, it obviously creates a new BACKUP every time you make a BACKUP and doesn't just overwrite the previous one. So do you keep every BACKUP LR makes or just the most recent one?

colourbox

Smart Collection is the second command under the Library menu in Library module. It is a collection you can only fill using rules.

You use rules to define the collection. So maybe I want a collection like this: "All of the images taken with my Canon Rebel XT, shot with the 17-55 lens, between June 17 and August 4, with the keyword Sarah, that I rated 4 stars or more."

Saves you the trouble of doing finds and filters and dragging all the pics into a collection manually. If you want to make a collection and you realize it can be defined by image metadata, just set up a Smart Collection. You can also think of it as a saved Find.

Backups: Lightroom doesn't manage database backups after it makes them. If you do nothing, they will eventually occupy large amounts of disk space. I just manually thin them out once in a while. Maybe delete every other one. Some people burn them to DVD and erase them from the drive, to have a history of the database at many points in time that doesn't eat up the hard drive.

jopapeca

jfriend wrote:

Doesn't this depend upon whether you keep your images in the LR database or not?

I personally keep my images in the normal file system and then import them from there so I back up both the catalog and my images. But aren't there settings to tell LR to keep your images in the catalog too so all you backup is the catalog?

As far as I know, there is no way to tell LR to backup the image files. Also you have to think about the catalogue as a database. If LR had to deal with the images keeping the files inside the catalogue, that would mean a enormous database (gigabyte sized), not a very good idea .

colourbox wrote:

And the reason I mentioned saving metadata to the file (or XMP) is for the scenario where it's actually deleted from the catalog. If that happens but metadata was saved out, you can re-import the file and get almost all your edits back. What you don't get back are virtual copies and history, but the saved metadata hangs on to almost everything else: Edits, snapshots, keywords, IPTC, etc. The removed file may get deleted from collections, but it may find its own way back into Smart Collections if the criteria on which the Smart Collection was based is still in the metadata.

That's why, in other thread, i've asked what it was best method, using sidecar files (CR2 + XMP) or using DNG. What should be best way.
In either cases you have all your edits saved in database (catalogue) and also in external file, wich is also 'portable' , right?

Candid Arts wrote:

2 Questions.

1) What are smart collections?

2) When you do BACKUPS, it obviously creates a new BACKUP every time you make a BACKUP and doesn't just overwrite the previous one. So do you keep every BACKUP LR makes or just the most recent one?

As Colourbox said, LR doesn't delete old backup files, so you need to do this manually. I do same, once in a while go and delete the old ones.

Candid Arts

colourbox wrote:

Smart Collection is the second command under the Library menu in Library module. It is a collection you can only fill using rules.

You use rules to define the collection. So maybe I want a collection like this: "All of the images taken with my Canon Rebel XT, shot with the 17-55 lens, between June 17 and August 4, with the keyword Sarah, that I rated 4 stars or more."

Saves you the trouble of doing finds and filters and dragging all the pics into a collection manually. If you want to make a collection and you realize it can be defined by image metadata, just set up a Smart Collection. You can also think of it as a saved Find.

Backups: Lightroom doesn't manage database backups after it makes them. If you do nothing, they will eventually occupy large amounts of disk space. I just manually thin them out once in a while. Maybe delete every other one. Some people burn them to DVD and erase them from the drive, to have a history of the database at many points in time that doesn't eat up the hard drive.

Got it. Thank you for your help. That makes sense. And a pretty neat idea. Something I'll look into later if I have time. I really want to go back and re-edit a lot of my photos that I think are lacking with my previous editing skills (or lack of I should say).

Art Scott

Candid Arts wrote:

Freakin sweet. That's all I needed. Damn how did I miss that?

Thank you! clap

Are you shooting from the hip or are you following Scott Kelby's book ......"LR2 for digital Photogs" ??????

Candid Arts

Art Scott wrote:

Are you shooting from the hip or are you following Scott Kelby's book ......"LR2 for digital Photogs" ??????

No book. Learning as I go.

I'll go ahead and save you a post... Art Scott says, "You need to go out and get Scott Kelby's book....."LR2 for digital photogs".....it's a great resource for everything you are asking about here......it has saved my butt many times.....even if you don't have time or money you need to get it.....it's just one of those things you need to have......along with an indecent light meter......

(I just had to add the last part as every post about lighting you mention that).

I'll have to look into that book, even though I don't have time (school, work, photography), nor money (school, photography, lack of work), plus I HATE books... But it sounds like I need to just suck it up and read this one...along with MANY other great photography books.

Thunder Rabbit

Howdy.

Candid Arts wrote:

No book. Learning as I go.

I'll go ahead and save you a post... Art Scott says, "You need to go out and get Scott Kelby's book....."LR2 for digital photogs".....it's a great resource for everything you are asking about here......it has saved my butt many times.....even if you don't have time or money you need to get it.....it's just one of those things you need to have......along with an indecent light meter......

I was just wondering, where do I get one of those "indecent" light meters. My current meter is way too prudish for my taste.
.

anonymouscuban

eoren1 wrote:

I'll add that, unless you need JPGs for some reason, LR actually makes those files redundant. I process my RAW files and post to smugmug via J Friedl's plugin. That creates a temporary JPG for upload. I have no need for creating JPGs otherwise as I can always make them in LR. That has greatly cut down on the size of my photo directories! I keep a backup of my RAW files and LR catalog on a separate external drive.
E

How are you accomplishing this? I have the plugin which automatically runs after I export to JPEG. How do you envoke the plugin WITHOUT exporting to JPEG first? I would love not to have to save JPEGs in order to upload to SmugMug.

eoren1

In the library (or develop) module, select your photos, click 'export...'. Make sure the top says 'smugmug' (not files on disk or cd/dvd). You'll notice in the 'export location' section that there is a dropdown under 'export to' that says it will export to a temp folder that will be discarded upon completion. You also have options for sharpening on export (for the screen vs print).

And to add to the 'read a book' response, I highly, highly (really, really) recommend taking a quick look at this video:
http://lightroom-news.com/2009/03/21/exposure-and-brightness-adjustments/
Literally changed the way I processed my shots in LR after over a year of using the program. Got his book within days of watching this which is also very good.
E

anonymouscuban

eoren1 wrote:

In the library (or develop) module, select your photos, click 'export...'. Make sure the top says 'smugmug' (not files on disk or cd/dvd). You'll notice in the 'export location' section that there is a dropdown under 'export to' that says it will export to a temp folder that will be discarded upon completion. You also have options for sharpening on export (for the screen vs print).

And to add to the 'read a book' response, I highly, highly (really, really) recommend taking a quick look at this video:
http://lightroom-news.com/2009/03/21/exposure-and-brightness-adjustments/
Literally changed the way I processed my shots in LR after over a year of using the program. Got his book within days of watching this which is also very good.
E

Thanks. Yeah, I viewed that video a few weeks back and I did adjust the way I process in LR based on what I saw.