Shooting Manual

canon400d · April 18, 2009

I have been trying to come to grips with my Canon 70-200L F.4 which hasn't got IS. I have been shooting manual and obviously I need a fast shutter speed when I am shooting at 200mm. I look through the view finder of my 40D and the only way I can increase the shutter speed is by either turning the wheel to the left and the pointer goes under exposed and subsequently a dark exposure. Or secondly increasing the ISO. I understood shooting manual you had total control of both exposure and shutter speed. I really do have problems increasing the shutter speed. Or should I be using TV when I am using this lens. Or am I talking crap? I will definately get there but only with your help.
Regards
Bob

Candid Arts · April 18, 2009

Well the f/4 is limiting your light by a full stop over the acclaimed f/2.8 version. In shutter speed terms, when your f/4 copy is at f/4 and 1/100th, the 2.8 copy could be at 2.8 and 1/200th all the while keeping the same EV (Exposure Value). There is only one way to get more light out of your f/4 if it's already at f/4 and if you want to keep your shutter speed at 1/200th, and that is...ISO. Turn it up. It sucks, cuz it get's noisy, but that's the price you pay for having the f/4 versus the f/2.8 version.

When on full manual, turning the dial will change the shutter speed to give you an EV of your choice (-1, -2/3, 0, +2, whatever) with a set aperture. If you're in AV or TV mode, turning the dial will adjust the EV to what you want and adjust the other accordingly (if you're in AV it'll adjust the shutter speed, if you're in TV it'll adjust the aperture). Bumping the ISO is the only option to get more light out of your f/4 if you need that faster shutter speed.

canon400d · April 18, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

Well the f/4 is limiting your light by a full stop over the acclaimed f/2.8 version. In shutter speed terms, when your f/4 copy is at f/4 and 1/100th, the 2.8 copy could be at 2.8 and 1/200th all the while keeping the same EV (Exposure Value). There is only one way to get more light out of your f/4 if it's already at f/4 and if you want to keep your shutter speed at 1/200th, and that is...ISO. Turn it up. It sucks, cuz it get's noisy, but that's the price you pay for having the f/4 versus the f/2.8 version.

When on full manual, turning the dial will change the shutter speed to give you an EV of your choice (-1, -2/3, 0, +2, whatever) with a set aperture. If you're in AV or TV mode, turning the dial will adjust the EV to what you want and adjust the other accordingly (if you're in AV it'll adjust the shutter speed, if you're in TV it'll adjust the aperture). Bumping the ISO is the only option to get more light out of your f/4 if you need that faster shutter speed.

Thanks Candid. That is spot on I know exactly what you mean. I haven't used this lens at all really and the reason being was because it didn't have IS so I got a canon 55-250 IS at a good price of £200 and it is one brilliant lens, as opposed to the 70-200 if I remember I paid around £700 but I have been advised to get used with the 70-200 as it is a much better lens. It was only the shutter speed that aggravated me with this lens.
Regards
Bob

pathfinder · April 18, 2009

If you are maxed at f4 and a maximum length of shutter speed for hand holding, and don't want to raise the ISO, then you must add more light..

Use a flash, a reflector, or a torch of some sort.

On a tripod, you might be able to lengthen the shutter speed, depending on subject movement.

Those are the choices available.

Candid Arts · April 18, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

If you are maxed at f4 and a maximum length of shutter speed for hand holding, and don't want to raise the ISO, then you must add more light..

Use a flash, a reflector, or a torch of some sort.

On a tripod, you might be able to lengthen the shutter speed, depending on subject movement.

Those are the choices available.

Also good points to take into account if the situation and equipment permit.

canon400d · April 20, 2009

Candid Arts wrote:

Also good points to take into account if the situation and equipment permit.

Thanks Pathfinder I am finding out you only get what you pay in photography and I must admit I have made my share of mistakes but lessons well learned.
Regards
Bob

pathfinder · April 20, 2009

Bob,

Raise your ISO! A little noise won't hurt a good sports shot at all, it is even expected.

If you are not comfortable at ISO 800 or 1600, you need to explore that arena.

Lots of fine images are shot there. Just be sure that you do not under expose and they will be fine.

If you have noise in the shadow, and quarter tones, de-noise with NoiseWare or Dfine or something, and raise the black point a few bits. Or convert to B&W. All these methods can help.

Just don't stop shooting because you only have an f4 lens. That is the limit on my 24-105 and I use it at 800+ a lot indoors.

Adding a spot of flash goes a long way at ISO 800 or 1600 too.

ziggy53 · April 20, 2009

pathfinder wrote:

Bob,

Raise your ISO! A little noise won't hurt a good sports shot at all, it is even expected.

If you are not comfortable at ISO 800 or 1600, you need to explore that arena.

Lots of fine images are shot there. Just be sure that you do not under expose and they will be fine.

If you have noise in the shadow, and quarter tones, de-noise with NoiseWare or Dfine or something, and raise the black point a few bits. Or convert to B&W. All these methods can help.

Just don't stop shooting because you only have an f4 lens. That is the limit on my 24-105 and I use it at 800+ a lot indoors.

Adding a spot of flash goes a long way at ISO 800 or 1600 too.

I absolutely agree with the above.

canon400d · April 20, 2009

ziggy53 wrote:

I absolutely agree with the above.

Thanks for that great advice Pathfinder. I took a lot of shots with it today and I am feeling more confident with it. Thanks to you and everyone's advice.
Regards
Bob

pathfinder · April 20, 2009

It was Ziggy's idea, really..........:D

Scott_Quier · April 21, 2009

canon400d wrote:

I have been trying to come to grips with my Canon 70-200L F.4 which hasn't got IS. I have been shooting manual and obviously I need a fast shutter speed when I am shooting at 200mm. I look through the view finder of my 40D and the only way I can increase the shutter speed is by either turning the wheel to the left and the pointer goes under exposed and subsequently a dark exposure. Or secondly increasing the ISO. I understood shooting manual you had total control of both exposure and shutter speed. I really do have problems increasing the shutter speed. Or should I be using TV when I am using this lens. Or am I talking crap? I will definately get there but only with your help.
Regards
Bob

This statement/question needs to be addressed in more depth.

There are three elements to exposure; shutter speed, ISO setting, and aperture. A fairly good treatment of this can be found here.

When shooting in manual mode, you do, indeed, have complete control over the exposure. But, only through the above three elements. In manual mode, you set each of these to whatever value you wish and make your photograph. The extent to which your photograph is either under- or over-exposed (or "just right") will depend on the relationship between your settings and the amount of light supplied (either flash, ambient, or both) during the time the shutter is open.

The trick is to be able to judge the amount of light available during the time the shutter is open (a light meter helps here and you have one in your camera) and set the ISO, shutter speed, and aperture to values that will

Allow the "appropriate" amount of light into the camera
Produce the artistic effect the desired (stop action, blurred action, depth of field, etc).

As you turn one dial or another and, thus, make changes to one of the three elements of the exposure your camera is comparing the result with the amount of light it sees and provides the photographer with it's best guess as to whether the resulting exposure will be "correct". That guess is provided by the position of the pointer relative to a zero reference. That "zero reference" is the camera's idea of a proper exposure.

If the photographer needs a faster shutter speed and if increasing the shutter speed will produce an image darker than desired, the photographer has only three choices, each with their own "costs":

Provide more light. In a studio session this is entirely possible. In other settings, the photographer can use either the on-board (popup) flash (not recommended), some form of external flash, or reflectors to add more light to the subject.
Open the aperture of the lens more ... if the lens aperture is not already set to the the maximum. Opening a lens aperture will decrease the depth of field.
Increase the ISO - making the camera sensor more sensitive to light. This will often (but not always) increase the noise seen in the image - at least when viewed on a computer monitor. Often this noise will not be appearant when viewed as a print.

canon400d · April 23, 2009

Scott_Quier wrote:

This statement/question needs to be addressed in more depth.

There are three elements to exposure; shutter speed, ISO setting, and aperture. A fairly good treatment of this can be found here.

When shooting in manual mode, you do, indeed, have complete control over the exposure. But, only through the above three elements. In manual mode, you set each of these to whatever value you wish and make your photograph. The extent to which your photograph is either under- or over-exposed (or "just right") will depend on the relationship between your settings and the amount of light supplied (either flash, ambient, or both) during the time the shutter is open.

The trick is to be able to judge the amount of light available during the time the shutter is open (a light meter helps here and you have one in your camera) and set the ISO, shutter speed, and aperture to values that will
Allow the "appropriate" amount of light into the camera

Produce the artistic effect the desired (stop action, blurred action, depth of field, etc).

As you turn one dial or another and, thus, make changes to one of the three elements of the exposure your camera is comparing the result with the amount of light it sees and provides the photographer with it's best guess as to whether the resulting exposure will be "correct". That guess is provided by the position of the pointer relative to a zero reference. That "zero reference" is the camera's idea of a proper exposure.

If the photographer needs a faster shutter speed and if increasing the shutter speed will produce an image darker than desired, the photographer has only three choices, each with their own "costs":
Provide more light. In a studio session this is entirely possible. In other settings, the photographer can use either the on-board (popup) flash (not recommended), some form of external flash, or reflectors to add more light to the subject.

Open the aperture of the lens more ... if the lens aperture is not already set to the the maximum. Opening a lens aperture will decrease the depth of field.

Increase the ISO - making the camera sensor more sensitive to light. This will often (but not always) increase the noise seen in the image - at least when viewed on a computer monitor. Often this noise will not be appearant when viewed as a print.

Thanks ever so much Scott for the advice which I so much needed and I truly appreciate you taking your time to explain the finer details to me. I have taken some (well I think) some quite good shots with the 70-200. However, I received my new 17-55 2.8 today and wow am I impressed and very easy to use so I don't think it will be off my 40D very often. However, I have taken everything on board and I will continue to practice the 70-200 as it certainly has its uses and I am determined to master it. Thanks once again.
Regards
Bob

anonymouscuban · April 23, 2009

In addition to what everyone else has mentioned, couldn't one more trick be to shoot RAW, allowing you a little wiggle room to under exposed the image a bit to acheive the faster shutter and then adjust for correct exposure in Post?

I have done this but not sure if it is optimal since I am still a noob.

pathfinder · April 23, 2009

Modest under exposure will lead to higher noise, but that might be preferable to blurring due to too low a shutter speed.

Shooting Manual

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