(Pro) Photography and the Law...

DoctorIt

Recently, I joined up with another photographer who started up a little business shooting youth sporting events. It started from him taking shots of his own son at soccer games. So this summer he did some planning, registered a domain, printed up flyers, etc... a couple weeks in, things were looking good so he put out a call for more shooters and I responded. Things were going well, parents were receptive. Until a friend of his pointed out that he should have liability insurance... huh? I don't know all the details and he certainly isn't an ignorant business man, he's been running his own graphic arts firm for a while. In any case, early last week, he asked me not to shoot anymore games while he investigated thoroughly, and yesterday the business was essentially shelved.

I'm pretty bummed, it was good practice for me, and a chance to hone the art while maybe making a buck or two. So whats the deal? Any of you pros out there have insight on this? It got me to thinking, when Andy (Moon River) goes out shooting in NYC and posts his work for sale on his website, is he insured, or rather, is Moon river insured? Does it have to be?

Just frustrated and curious.

Win38-55

Perhaps insurance for something such as a kid running full tilt into you and camrea and gear? Only thing I could think of. I dont know if maybe tripods and stuff on edge of field. I could see some parent expecting kid to get mega million doller sport contract being disturbed at injury to his or her retirement plan.

DoctorIt

Win38-55 wrote:

Perhaps insurance for something such as a kid running full tilt into you and camrea and gear? Only thing I could think of. I dont know if maybe tripods and stuff on edge of field. I could see some parent expecting kid to get mega million doller sport contract being disturbed at injury to his or her retirement plan.

I think this is the right answer, and the one that my friend mentioned.

But it still leaves me wondering what sort of liability freelance street/sport/whatever photographers have to worry about? I know for a fact there are a few of you out there shooting kids sporting events and passing out your business cards... are you getting around liability because its just you, as a photographer, and not (as in our case) a soccer shooting business with 2 of us???

Seamaiden

I have a friend who is involved in soccer (playing, coaching, photographing) as well as doing some shooting of his local hockey team. You might want to try to contact Sharkky on either talktothehand.org or reefs.org, as I think he may be pretty familiar with whatever issues may exist.

tmshots

Some States prohibit the photographing of any minors without consent of Parent or Guardian. Liability insurance is something that would help protect or aid in leagal costs. In Oregon, much like other states, has a strong law to enforce this. It even stretches out to public domain (ie; the streets) and is a touchy subject here. Just an FYI

Andy

DoctorIt wrote:

Recently, I joined up with another photographer who started up a little business shooting youth sporting events. It started from him taking shots of his own son at soccer games. So this summer he did some planning, registered a domain, printed up flyers, etc... a couple weeks in, things were looking good so he put out a call for more shooters and I responded. Things were going well, parents were receptive. Until a friend of his pointed out that he should have liability insurance... huh? I don't know all the details and he certainly isn't an ignorant business man, he's been running his own graphic arts firm for a while. In any case, early last week, he asked me not to shoot anymore games while he investigated thoroughly, and yesterday the business was essentially shelved.

I'm pretty bummed, it was good practice for me, and a chance to hone the art while maybe making a buck or two. So whats the deal? Any of you pros out there have insight on this? It got me to thinking, when Andy (Moon River) goes out shooting in NYC and posts his work for sale on his website, is he insured, or rather, is Moon river insured? Does it have to be?

Just frustrated and curious.

yes, doc - i'm insured when i'm out shooting. i have a very large liability policy, that protects me, my gear, and also against damage if i happen to bump into someone while shooting, or maybe knock over a faberge egg becuase i'm shooting and eating at the same time

ps: found this thread via google!

luckyrwe

Even if it is legal to take picture of the people, in a legal area, with legal equipment, etc, remember it only takes $16 to file a lawsuit on you, then defense is YOUR ballgame.

Lawyers. We have too many. :cry

Shay Stephens

It's pretty easy to pick up liability insurance tailored for photographers. Have him check out Hill and Usher:
http://www.hillusher.com/

If you are doing this professionally you need insurance. Don't even think you don't.

DoctorIt wrote:

Until a friend of his pointed out that he should have liability insurance...

Angelo

As with all business ventures, insurance is a means of protecting your ass (ets). Should an event cause damage, the injured party will seek restitution. Small business / self employed liabilty riders or umbrella policies are not particularly expensive for anyone who already carries something like homeowner's insurance.

I think your friend ran into a problem by inviting other photogs to participate thereby creating an employer / employee relationship. As such his problem became more complex; such as worker's comp insurance, social security and witholding requirements.

As far as the issue of photographing minors: a simple work around for this issue is ensuring a hold-harmless clause in your agreement with the school or sports organization that hires you, making certain language clearly stipulates that the responsibilty of garnering parental permission falls on the school.

DoctorIt

dredged from the depths... hey some of this would have been good info about six months ago!

If I learned anything from last summer is that shooting sports is a catch22. The younger kids are where the bigger bucks are (all parents want photos!), BUT the shooting is boring and more complex because of the few parents who are scared to death (another issue). I'm on a great college campus, and there's tons of great oppurtunities to shoot high level athletes, but many of the sports license all shots - as in have to be a hired gun like my friend Winger.

My new venture this spring/summer will by a return to the sport I know well, and love. Bicycle racing. I spent many years racing and promoting races, so I know it. And, it's a non NCCA regulated sport, so most schools don't care who takes the photos. College cycling in general is underrated, and most participants are excited to see me out there shooting. I'm gonna get organized, work with my local team, and see what I can do.

aero-nut

DoctorIt wrote:

dredged from the depths... hey some of this would have been good info about six months ago!

If I learned anything from last summer is that shooting sports is a catch22. The younger kids are where the bigger bucks are (all parents want photos!), BUT the shooting is boring and more complex because of the few parents who are scared to death (another issue). I'm on a great college campus, and there's tons of great oppurtunities to shoot high level athletes, but many of the sports license all shots - as in have to be a hired gun like my friend Winger.

My new venture this spring/summer will by a return to the sport I know well, and love. Bicycle racing. I spent many years racing and promoting races, so I know it. And, it's a non NCCA regulated sport, so most schools don't care who takes the photos. College cycling in general is underrated, and most participants are excited to see me out there shooting. I'm gonna get organized, work with my local team, and see what I can do.

Dr. IT,

I would be interested to hear how it works out. I'm considering something similar here...

DoctorIt

aero-nut wrote:

Dr. IT,

I would be interested to hear how it works out. I'm considering something similar here...

Sure, here's an update: there's no money in collegiate bicycle racing!



Just kidding, that wasn't my main motivation anyway. I did the first race (not first race of their season, just first race close enough to me) 2 weekends ago at Tufts U, see my post here. It went well, lots of photos posted up to the site, and I've had some business. Not nearly enough to make it a lucrative money-making venture. Sales keep trickling in, as I'm lucky enough to be involved enough with our racing conference that I have a link right on their calendar, but still, I think I'm only up to about $30 total. But another note on that - my print prices are waaaay low. There was another event photographer there, and in checking his prices after the race, they were almost 4-5 times what mine were. Are his photos 4-5 times better than mine? No. Am I undercutting his business? doubt it. College racers aren't gonna spend tons on prints, and they're old enough that parents aren't right on their heels watching them. Cycling not being an official varsity NCAA sport means the demographic is usually more independent kids having a good time racing. There's no scholarship babies in this sport with parents who travel to all races. Yeah right, I'm cracking up just thinking about it

I'm being too random. Sorry. The bottom line is, I had fun, and did as well as could be expected in terms of sales. I couldn't have had a better in, knowing the conference director and race promoter personally. Better for me is that I'm possibly going to get another cycling photo in the Tufts newspaper, another tear sheet for my portfolio.

Aero-nut, what exactly is your venture? Cycling as well?

GerryDavid

This stuff is interesting.

If I wanted to take pictures of some local sporting events for the elementary school/high school, what are the steps in doing so?

Probably first talk to the school to make sure its ok/get thier permission to be there. Same for the head league people if its not with a school.

Then show up, take the pictures. Would I need model releases to upload the pictures to smugmug and let people buy prints from there? It could be a large hastle to go around to each parent to get them to sign the thing, if they are even there.

Then of course the gear and liability insurrance for just incase.

My biggest confusion here would be the model releases.

luckyrwe

If the picture is not used in advertising you will not need a release. It is good to get one anyway of course! From the school point of view they don't want anyone tripping over your gear. Ask your insurance company about a million dollar blanket rider. It may be $200 a year and worth it.