Wow, lots of response to this question. I suppose the reason I don't really care for it is simple: the world doesn't happen in selective color and to make it so is just silly. Have you ever walked down the street seeing the world around you in black and white and suddenly come upon a color filled bed of red roses? Not likely unless you've got some acid left over from 1967.
Wow, lots of response to this question. I suppose the reason I don't really care for it is simple: the world doesn't happen in selective color and to make it so is just silly. Have you ever walked down the street seeing the world around you in black and white and suddenly come upon a color filled bed of red roses? Not likely unless you've got some acid left over from 1967.
The world doesn't see in B&W (one can argue color blind people, but they are few and far between, and even then most see some or most colors, just not all) or sepia either. The world also doesn't see with a DOF equivalent to that of a 1.4 aperture, possibly not even a 2.8, but they are also used...
I think we need to be careful about this attitude: sure the Bride loves, it, but. . .
We work for the bride!
The bride loves it because although we have seen it a million times and it is passe for us, she has never had a pic done with her with selective coloring and has no idea how it is done (how easy it is).
show ten good wedding pics to you average bride, one of them with selective coloring. That will be picked as a fav. We work for her.
I think we need to be careful about this attitude: sure the Bride loves, it, but. . .
We work for the bride!
The bride loves it because although we have seen it a million times and it is passe for us, she has never had a pic done with her with selective coloring and has no idea how it is done (how easy it is).
show ten good wedding pics to you average bride, one of them with selective coloring. That will be picked as a fav. We work for her.
I agree. And at the same time, if the photographer does it in their normal practice, and does it well, and the B&G (Bride) seek out that photographer, they obviously want whatever that photographer is offering.
I agree. And at the same time, if the photographer does it in their normal practice, and does it well, and the B&G (Bride) seek out that photographer, they obviously want whatever that photographer is offering.
And, this is why I always show one or two of them to each couple I interview with. If it helps to make the sale and if I get a shot of her/them for which SC works - well then I do one for them.
Wow, lots of response to this question. I suppose the reason I don't really care for it is simple: the world doesn't happen in selective color and to make it so is just silly. Have you ever walked down the street seeing the world around you in black and white and suddenly come upon a color filled bed of red roses? Not likely unless you've got some acid left over from 1967.
Scotty, your suggested reason for SC being silly is...well...silly.
The world doesn't happen in any way that can be accurately exactly reproduced by any mechanism, let alone a camera. I mean the world doesn't happen in 2D either, how about a poorly posted picture with low contrast and off white balance.
Our craft is not to reproduce reality, that being said,
The bride should be hiring you because she wants your product, if that includes SC then give her what she wants. If you don't like SC (I rarely do) and it's not part of your product offering, If a bride at that point wants SC so bad that she is willing to forego hiring you because you don't offer SC, then your product was not what she was looking for.
SC is no different than any other effect, there are a ton of poorly done soft focus effects and shallow DOF effects that scream for deletion.
I think we need to be careful about this attitude: sure the Bride loves, it, but. . .
We work for the bride!
The bride loves it because although we have seen it a million times and it is passe for us, she has never had a pic done with her with selective coloring and has no idea how it is done (how easy it is).
show ten good wedding pics to you average bride, one of them with selective coloring. That will be picked as a fav. We work for her.
This is not necessarily the *only* way to stay in business. Many photographers out there get paid to shoot EXACTLY (and exclusively) WHATEVER THEY DESIRE!
If you build your business from the ground up with a "this is my art, take it or leave it" mentality, then you won't have to bend to other people's requests, ever. Yes, it is a huge gamble and you might go out of business if nobody cares for your style, ...but I have faith that those with true artistic passion / skill / gift will not go un-rewarded.
So yes, "servicing" a client is good. But it is 100% possible to build a portrait / wedding photography business in which your reputation and talent allows you to unwaveringly say "nope, I don't do that; you may want to try the other photographer down the street..."
Just my opinionated opinion!
=Matt=
[edit] And no, Candid Arts, I don't think that red roses shot looks tasteful. But that's just me. I'm highly opinionated. EITHER WAY, I think the point of this whole discussion is- If that's something you want YOUR STYLE to be about, then by all means, indulge. There will be a market for anything and everything, as long as it is quality work. But if something is not your style, if there's ANY type of shot, a pose or post-processing trick that just makes your skin crawl, ...then I'd highly encourage you to build a STRONG brand and image around whatever it is that YOU LOVE TO SHOOT. Or, aim the business at a certain group of PEOPLE who have a certain lifestyle, appreciation for art, or whatever... The bottom line is to strengthen whatever it is that is uniquely YOU, and eventually you will (mostly) only ever do business with "dream clients..."
(And for those who have been in business for over 5 years and are thinking I'm totally wrong, because you still get clients coming to you who you have to grit your teeth to do business with, or even if they simply want you to do something that isn't your style, ...I have to ask: WHY don't you turn down non-ideal clients in the first place? And/or WHY isn't your brand strong enough that people know exactly what artistic style they're hiring you for? Things CAN be better, honestly!)
Selective color is a silly gimmick. It doesnt look good(ever), But if your customer wants it then they can have it. Nothing posted in this thread is remotely pleasing to the eye, its like bad HDR.
Now lets talk about over softening a photo
Please tell us how you really feel. Are you saying EVERYTHING you do is pleasing to everyone?
Please tell us how you really feel. Are you saying EVERYTHING you do is pleasing to everyone?
Nope, but were not talking about my style, were talking about selective coloring(which is what I was commenting on )
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Darren Troy CRegistered UsersPosts: 1,927Major grins
edited May 7, 2009
Gotcha. I read your post as saying "it doesn't look good ever.....for anyone" ....and for that I do apologize, you meant solely for you. It's a choice and if a paying client asks, I for one would never be up for declining. On an average, everyday edit.....rarely, if ever....does it take center stage.
Gotcha. I read your post as saying "it doesn't look good ever.....for anyone" ....and for that I do apologize, you meant solely for you. It's a choice and if a paying client asks, I for one would never be up for declining. On an average, everyday edit.....rarely, if ever....does it take center stage.
Its cool, its the intraweb..... People are never heard the right way. I must have been wound up about something when I wrote that("Remotely pleasing to the eye...."):D
I don't like mushrooms. Therefore nobody should be allowed to have them.
Just kidding!
I always order it on the pizza because my hubbie does- I can always pick it off my piece.
SC isn't my first choice, but I certainly don't mind if someone else likes it.
I never tried mushrooms, because of the way they looked, so I just told people I hated them. Until I met my wife, she has encouraged me to try all sorts of new things, and I now enjoy mushrooms, (on certain things).
So I guess there are 2 good analogies, involving mushrooms that relate to SC
Comments
Bad link...please fix.....I am interested.........
The world doesn't see in B&W (one can argue color blind people, but they are few and far between, and even then most see some or most colors, just not all) or sepia either. The world also doesn't see with a DOF equivalent to that of a 1.4 aperture, possibly not even a 2.8, but they are also used...
OneTwoFiftieth | Portland, Oregon | Modern Portraiture
My Equipment:
Bodies: Canon 50D, Canon EOS 1
Lenses: Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8
Lighting: Canon 580EXII, Canon 420 EX, 12" Reflector, Pocket Wizard Plus II (3), AB800 (3), Large Softbox
Stability: Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Tripod, Manfrotto 488RC4 Ball Head, Manfrotto 679B Monopod
We work for the bride!
The bride loves it because although we have seen it a million times and it is passe for us, she has never had a pic done with her with selective coloring and has no idea how it is done (how easy it is).
show ten good wedding pics to you average bride, one of them with selective coloring. That will be picked as a fav. We work for her.
Las Cruces Photographer / Las Cruces Wedding Photographer
Other site
I agree. And at the same time, if the photographer does it in their normal practice, and does it well, and the B&G (Bride) seek out that photographer, they obviously want whatever that photographer is offering.
OneTwoFiftieth | Portland, Oregon | Modern Portraiture
My Equipment:
Bodies: Canon 50D, Canon EOS 1
Lenses: Canon 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS, Canon 50mm f/1.4, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon MP-E 65mm f/2.8
Lighting: Canon 580EXII, Canon 420 EX, 12" Reflector, Pocket Wizard Plus II (3), AB800 (3), Large Softbox
Stability: Manfrotto 190CXPRO3 Tripod, Manfrotto 488RC4 Ball Head, Manfrotto 679B Monopod
My Photos
Thoughts on photographing a wedding, How to post a picture, AF Microadjustments?, Light Scoop
Equipment List - Check my profile
Scotty, your suggested reason for SC being silly is...well...silly.
The world doesn't happen in any way that can be accurately exactly reproduced by any mechanism, let alone a camera. I mean the world doesn't happen in 2D either, how about a poorly posted picture with low contrast and off white balance.
Our craft is not to reproduce reality, that being said,
The bride should be hiring you because she wants your product, if that includes SC then give her what she wants. If you don't like SC (I rarely do) and it's not part of your product offering, If a bride at that point wants SC so bad that she is willing to forego hiring you because you don't offer SC, then your product was not what she was looking for.
SC is no different than any other effect, there are a ton of poorly done soft focus effects and shallow DOF effects that scream for deletion.
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo
This is not necessarily the *only* way to stay in business. Many photographers out there get paid to shoot EXACTLY (and exclusively) WHATEVER THEY DESIRE!
If you build your business from the ground up with a "this is my art, take it or leave it" mentality, then you won't have to bend to other people's requests, ever. Yes, it is a huge gamble and you might go out of business if nobody cares for your style, ...but I have faith that those with true artistic passion / skill / gift will not go un-rewarded.
So yes, "servicing" a client is good. But it is 100% possible to build a portrait / wedding photography business in which your reputation and talent allows you to unwaveringly say "nope, I don't do that; you may want to try the other photographer down the street..."
Just my opinionated opinion!
=Matt=
[edit] And no, Candid Arts, I don't think that red roses shot looks tasteful. But that's just me. I'm highly opinionated. EITHER WAY, I think the point of this whole discussion is- If that's something you want YOUR STYLE to be about, then by all means, indulge. There will be a market for anything and everything, as long as it is quality work. But if something is not your style, if there's ANY type of shot, a pose or post-processing trick that just makes your skin crawl, ...then I'd highly encourage you to build a STRONG brand and image around whatever it is that YOU LOVE TO SHOOT. Or, aim the business at a certain group of PEOPLE who have a certain lifestyle, appreciation for art, or whatever... The bottom line is to strengthen whatever it is that is uniquely YOU, and eventually you will (mostly) only ever do business with "dream clients..."
(And for those who have been in business for over 5 years and are thinking I'm totally wrong, because you still get clients coming to you who you have to grit your teeth to do business with, or even if they simply want you to do something that isn't your style, ...I have to ask: WHY don't you turn down non-ideal clients in the first place? And/or WHY isn't your brand strong enough that people know exactly what artistic style they're hiring you for? Things CAN be better, honestly!)
My SmugMug Portfolio • My Astro-Landscape Photo Blog • Dgrin Weddings Forum
Please tell us how you really feel.
Just kidding!
I always order it on the pizza because my hubbie does- I can always pick it off my piece.
SC isn't my first choice, but I certainly don't mind if someone else likes it.
www.ivarborst.nl & smugmug
Nope, but were not talking about my style, were talking about selective coloring(which is what I was commenting on
Its cool, its the intraweb..... People are never heard the right way. I must have been wound up about something when I wrote that("Remotely pleasing to the eye...."):D
I never tried mushrooms, because of the way they looked, so I just told people I hated them. Until I met my wife, she has encouraged me to try all sorts of new things, and I now enjoy mushrooms, (on certain things).
So I guess there are 2 good analogies, involving mushrooms that relate to SC
Keith Tharp.com - Champion Photo