CS3 .xmp - LR2 .xmp?

Candid Arts · April 25, 2009

So, I've been re-editing all my photos and getting rid of some of the crap ones, since then, I've been using LR2 and it's awesome database as well as .xmp files to save my edits. Now, when I edit a RAW file in LR2, it automatically writes a .xmp file. So w/o any saving, I can open up that RAW file in CS3, and all the edits from LR2 will be there. However, when I open that file in CS3, and make some edits, it doesn't auto write to an .xmp, so I now have to save another file (.psd) to get those edits back into LR2.

Is there anyway to set CS3 to auto write the same way that LR2 does so I can open that same file in LR2 again and have my CS3 edits there?

Thanks you.

Thunder Rabbit · April 25, 2009

Howdy.

In the ACR preferences (from Bridge, Menu>Edit>Camera Raw Preferences), make sure the you are set to save the data to sidecar XMP files. It's the default setting, but it's worth a check.

But I reckon ACR is writing to the sidecar but Lr is not seeing them. This is normal. After you make any changes in Bridge or PS, you have to synchronize the folder in Lr to see the changes.

Or, you can set Lr to watch the folder you are working on, and it will automatically update.

Menu>File>Auto Import

You'll get a dialog box allowing you to select the folder you want Lr to watch, and some other import parameters.

It does seem like something of a glitch that the data can't be read both ways, but I think the reason it can't is intrinsic to the index architecture of Lr. But once you understand what's going in, it is only the smallest inconvenience.

And not even that if you create your PS PSD copy using the Edit in Photoshop dialog box in Lr. In that case, Lr will automatically update your changes. And the apparent glitch above is a non issue.

PS: I have edited this a little bit for clarity.

jfriend · April 26, 2009

You also need to remember that LR2 is a generation ahead of CS3. It writes quite a few things to the XMP that CS3/ACR doesn't know how to understand like gradients, mask adjustments, etc... So, you will only get LR2/CS3 interoperability if you stick to the adjustments that are supported in CS3/ACR.

Thunder Rabbit · April 26, 2009

Howdy.

Begging your pardon, John, but I run Lr2 and CS3, and adjustments made using all the local adjustment tools, including gradient and adjustment brush, are read and rendered by CS3 ACR. And local edits made in Lr2 are visible in Bridge thumbs. Anything Lr2 can do, CS3 can read, render.

The integration between Lr2 and CS3 is smooth as silk. CS3 ACR reads and renders the gradient and adjustment subsets from Lr2 just like it reads and renders the spot removal tool subset and the red eye removal subset. CS3 just can't write or edit the gradient and adjustment brushes.

There may be some inter-generational conflicts between Lr2 & CS3, but I haven't run across them and I use them together every day.

Thunder Rabbit · April 28, 2009

Howdy.

I don't want to be hogging the ball here, but my first reply, while being more or less accurate, didn't do much to dispel the confusion regarding Lightroom's interaction with Photoshop. I'd like to give it another shot, this time in a more comprehensive, and perhaps even comprehensible manner.

Adobe has designed Lr2 so that it can be used as a complete replacement for Bridge as the browser and RAW interface for Photoshop. And it performs this function seamlessly and flawlessly. Faster and smoother than Bridge in every respect.

There is a lot of confusion about how to use Lr2 and PS together. And quite a bit of it is generated by a hesitance to commit to Lr2. And quite a bit of it is generated by helpful guys like me. With the best intentions, but not always accurately informed. And a lot of it is just because Lr2, when used properly, is so simple and effective, one can’t help but think there must be a catch. Well, there is no catch. Lr2 and PS CS3 dance together like Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers. Right out of the box. No fiddling with file preferences required.

In fact, fiddling with the file preferences has no effect on the ability of Lr and PS to communicate. The connection is too basic. When you make and save a change in PS, it is written to the hard drive. And that is that. And when Lr accesses the PSD file, it just reads the pixel data in the file on the hard drive and renders it. And that is that. The Lr version of a PSD image will always be as up to date as your last save in PS. Which is as good as it gets.

The only restriction is that the file must be in the Lr catalog. If you always create your PSD copies from Lr using Ctrl+E, they always will be. If you create a PSD image in PS, Lr won’t automatically know about it. It must be added to the catalog. Easy to do. Just sync the folder. Once it’s in the Lr catalog, it’s no different than a PSD image generated from Lr. When you call up the file, Lr just reads and renders what’s on the hard drive. No file preferences involved.

What about all the hubbub about XMP sidecar files, and file preferences, and all that?

Well, this doesn’t even come into play as long as it’s just Ginger and Fred (Lr and PS). The trouble starts when someone tries to cut in. Bridge, usually, but it could be any other imaging program in your work flow. All the discussion about XMP files only pertain to getting Lr and Bridge/ACR and other RAW programs to communicate. That is, read and write each other’s RAW develop settings and other metadata. Once again, it has nothing to do with Lr and PS working together. PS does not read RAW files. It does not read or generate XMP development data. You can’t get a RAW image to open directly in PS. Only a copy in a PS compatible format, usually PSD. And that copy must be generated by a RAW engine, like the one in Lr and ACR.

It can also help to clarify some of the confusion to realize that Photoshop CS3 is actually three separate entities. Photoshop, Bridge, and ACR. Bridge is essentially a browser, and a slow one at that. ACR is a RAW processing engine. Lightroom 2 is a lightning fast browser with a built in RAW engine (the same one as in ACR), and effectively replaces both Bridge and ACR.

These days, I use Bridge for some special purposes, and never use ACR. I do all my RAW editing in Lr2. If I need some special editing that Lr2 can’t deliver, I press Ctrl+E, and a PSD copy opens in PS. Edit, Save, and the new PSD file immediately appears in Lr2, with edits. Regardless of my XMP file settings in either Lr or PS preferences (there are no XMP file settings in PS).

It couldn't be any simpler or any more effective.

Candid Arts · April 28, 2009

That was perfect. Exactly what I was looking for. PS doesn't read RAW files, the CTRL+E was the key that unlocked the city. Thank you so much. EXTREMELY informative.

bow

So, the only thing that I'm seeing that I don't like is the fact that when you CTRL+E the RAW file to PS it creates a .PSD file for PS to read. So now in LR you have the .CR2 file AND the .PSD file? The thing I don't like about the .PSD files is that when you open it in LR to edit it further, the edits are as if you're editing a JPEG in that the light color temperature is -1, 0, +1, etc... versus the actual color temperature, 5500k, 2500k, etc... Among other things, like black is auto set to 0, so you can't take any black out to make less black, and I'm sure other things too.

So when you do your edits in PS do you have to save the file as something specific and where do you save it? To the same folder that the original RAW file was in? Then LR will automatically read it? Or do you just do your edits in PS and just save (vs. save as), or don't even need to save, or is there an export/edit in LR so it put's it back into LR w/o having to save it?

Thunder Rabbit · April 29, 2009

Howdy.

Here goes.

“So, the only thing that I'm seeing that I don't like is the fact that when you CTRL+E the RAW file to PS it creates a .PSD file for PS to read. So now in LR you have the .CR2 file AND the .PSD file?”

The assumption is, the vast majority of your RAW (CR2, NEF, DNG, etc) images will receive RAW processing and will require no further editing in PS. Those that do will require a separate PSD copy. There is no way around this. But, since the addition of the local adjustment tools in Lr2, the need to edit in PS is drastically reduced, along with the number of PSD copies in your Lr catalog. If your work flow includes editing all or most of your images in PS after you’ve edited them in Lr, you’re probably working too hard. It may be time to rethink.

“The thing I don't like about the .PSD files is that when you open it in LR to edit it further, the edits are as if you're editing a JPEG in that the light color temperature is -1, 0, +1, etc... versus the actual color temperature, 5500k, 2500k, etc... Among other things, like black is auto set to 0, so you can't take any black out to make less black, and I'm sure other things too. “

I’m not sure exactly what you mean by this. When I view my PSD images in Lr, they look just like they do in PS.

So far as editing a PSD image in Lr goes, it doesn’t work. Lr doesn’t do layers. PS doesn’t do RAW. Yes, you can apply and adjust RAW settings to the PSD image in LR, but the edits are only being recorded in the Lr catalog. PSD doesn’t do XMP files, so the data for the edits never leaves Lr. You can edit a PSD image to your heart’s content in Lr, but none of the edits you made will be there when you open it in PS. If you think you can beat this by opting to edit a copy with Lr adjustments, yes, the new Lr edits will be there, but the layers won’t. When Lr creates a copy of a PSD with Lr adjustments, it has to flatten it first, and all your layers are lost. You can’t have it both ways.

It is presumed that you don’t take the extra step of editing a RAW image in PS until you’ve exhausted the RAW editing capabilities of Lr. Once you have created a PSD copy which inherits this optimized RAW processing, there should be no reason to go back and edit it in Lr. Furthermore, PS can replicate or surpass any result you might think you need to go back to Lr to achieve. And finally, again, it can’t be done. Any edits made in Lr to a PSD file will be rendered in Lr, but cannot be read by PS. (That is, unless you make another copy of the PSD file with Lr edits, but, as mentioned above, you will lose your layers.)

“So when you do your edits in PS do you have to save the file as something specific and where do you save it? To the same folder that the original RAW file was in? Then LR will automatically read it? Or do you just do your edits in PS and just save (vs. save as), or don't even need to save, or is there an export/edit in LR so it put's it back into LR w/o having to save it?”

When you create a PSD copy of a RAW image from Lr using Ctrl+E, the only thing you need to do when you want to save it is press Ctrl+S. Lr will automatically save the PSD in the same folder as the original and it will have the same name as the original, with “-Edit” tacked on to the end. This is done by default, and there is no way to change it (and no need). And Lr will see the changes as soon as you save them in PS.

There is no “Save As” function in Lr. And no Saving on the Lr end is required for it to interact with PS. Lr always keeps the RAW edits for any image current in its own catalog, no saving required. When you Ctrl+E a RAW image, Lr renders the PSD copy using the data in its own catalog,. Not the data in the XMP sidecar file. When you use the “Save” function in Lr, what you are really doing is synchronizing the XMP sidecar file with the Lr catalog file. Lr has already automatically saved your changes as you make them in its catalog. So, if you are using Lr>PS, and nothing else, there is never any need to “Save” in Lr. (Of course, you still must save your edits in PS. The “Save As” function in PS still works. But if you use it to create new copies, they must be imported to the catalog for Lr to see them.)

Try this: Open Lr (in Grid mode) and PS and tile them on your screen so you can see them both. Select and Ctrl+E a RAW image. It will open in PS. Press Ctrl+S to save it. You will see the thumbnail for the new PSD copy appear almost instantly beside the original in Lr. Now add some text to the image in PS. Save. You will see the text appear in the Lr thumbnail almost immediately (a second or two on my computer). Edits saved in PS are automatically and almost instantly rendered in Lr.

And that's the short version. There are a few more things it's helpful to know about this stuff that I will try and post later. This one's too long already.

Candid Arts · April 29, 2009

Thunder Rabbit wrote:

Howdy.

Here goes.

“So, the only thing that I'm seeing that I don't like is the fact that when you CTRL+E the RAW file to PS it creates a .PSD file for PS to read. So now in LR you have the .CR2 file AND the .PSD file?”

The assumption is, the vast majority of your RAW (CR2, NEF, DNG, etc) images will receive RAW processing and will require no further editing in PS. Those that do will require a separate PSD copy. There is no way around this. But, since the addition of the local adjustment tools in Lr2, the need to edit in PS is drastically reduced, along with the number of PSD copies in your Lr catalog. If your work flow includes editing all or most of your images in PS after you’ve edited them in Lr, you’re probably working too hard. It may be time to rethink.

I don't do a lot in PS, but I'm working on cleaning out all my JPEGs that I've made so as to just leave the RAW files. A PSD file is a much larger file than an edited JPEG, so having the RAW file as well as a PSD seems like even a worse idea than keeping JPEGs that I don't need. But, if that's the only way, and like you said a very small amount of my photos are actually taken into PS, then that's the way it is. Thank you for that clarification.

“The thing I don't like about the .PSD files is that when you open it in LR to edit it further, the edits are as if you're editing a JPEG in that the light color temperature is -1, 0, +1, etc... versus the actual color temperature, 5500k, 2500k, etc... Among other things, like black is auto set to 0, so you can't take any black out to make less black, and I'm sure other things too. “

I’m not sure exactly what you mean by this. When I view my PSD images in Lr, they look just like they do in PS.

the image does look the same. But look at your editing sliders. For a RAW file, your WB is the actuall color temperature (i.e. 2500k, 5500k, 12000k, whatever). Where as with a PSD file or JPEG the WB is just a value (i.e. -1, -20, 0, +15, whatever). Plus, for the auto WB options, with a RAW file you have flash, daylight, cloudy, shade, whatever, and with a JPEG or PSD your limited to as shot, auto, or custom. On top of this, when you import a RAW file into LR the Blacks slider is set at 5, contrast 25, brightness 50, with a JPEG or PSD file, they are all set to 0 automatically. However, reading you're next statement pretty much nullifies what I just wrote.

So far as editing a PSD image in Lr goes, it doesn’t work. Lr doesn’t do layers. PS doesn’t do RAW. Yes, you can apply and adjust RAW settings to the PSD image in LR, but the edits are only being recorded in the Lr catalog. PSD doesn’t do XMP files, so the data for the edits never leaves Lr. You can edit a PSD image to your heart’s content in Lr, but none of the edits you made will be there when you open it in PS. If you think you can beat this by opting to edit a copy with Lr adjustments, yes, the new Lr edits will be there, but the layers won’t. When Lr creates a copy of a PSD with Lr adjustments, it has to flatten it first, and all your layers are lost. You can’t have it both ways.

It is presumed that you don’t take the extra step of editing a RAW image in PS until you’ve exhausted the RAW editing capabilities of Lr. Once you have created a PSD copy which inherits this optimized RAW processing, there should be no reason to go back and edit it in Lr. Furthermore, PS can replicate or surpass any result you might think you need to go back to Lr to achieve. And finally, again, it can’t be done. Any edits made in Lr to a PSD file will be rendered in Lr, but cannot be read by PS. (That is, unless you make another copy of the PSD file with Lr edits, but, as mentioned above, you will lose your layers.)

For me however, what I do in PS doesn't entirely satisfy me. For Example, I'll edit a photo in LR to what I want it to look like, realize there is something I need to do to that photo in PS. So I put it in PS, now, seeing what I did in PS changed the photo a little bit (as I can't visualize what the photo will look like after I do the PS edits) I need to re-edit, or adjust something futher. I know LR a lot better for editing than I do PS (however both are still small amounts of what either program can do). Such as all the options you have in ACR (or LR) I can't figure out how to adjust once you've exited ACR and the photo is actually now in PS (such as blacks, camera profile, fill light, recovery, and I'm sure more I can't think of right now). Does that make sense?

“So when you do your edits in PS do you have to save the file as something specific and where do you save it? To the same folder that the original RAW file was in? Then LR will automatically read it? Or do you just do your edits in PS and just save (vs. save as), or don't even need to save, or is there an export/edit in LR so it put's it back into LR w/o having to save it?”

When you create a PSD copy of a RAW image from Lr using Ctrl+E, the only thing you need to do when you want to save it is press Ctrl+S. Lr will automatically save the PSD in the same folder as the original and it will have the same name as the original, with “-Edit” tacked on to the end. This is done by default, and there is no way to change it (and no need). And Lr will see the changes as soon as you save them in PS.

There is no “Save As” function in Lr. And no Saving on the Lr end is required for it to interact with PS. Lr always keeps the RAW edits for any image current in its own catalog, no saving required. When you Ctrl+E a RAW image, Lr renders the PSD copy using the data in its own catalog,. Not the data in the XMP sidecar file. When you use the “Save” function in Lr, what you are really doing is synchronizing the XMP sidecar file with the Lr catalog file. Lr has already automatically saved your changes as you make them in its catalog. So, if you are using Lr>PS, and nothing else, there is never any need to “Save” in Lr. (Of course, you still must save your edits in PS. The “Save As” function in PS still works. But if you use it to create new copies, they must be imported to the catalog for Lr to see them.)

From how I gather what you're saying, you interepreted what I was asking incorrectly. I was asking how to save the file from PS so that LR finds it w/o having to import it again from LR. It seems in your response that you thought I was talking about saving the edited PSD file in LR, which I know you can't do, and don't need to do because any edits to it in LR will be saved in LR automatically. Sorry for my confusion on my first attempt to ask this.

Try this: Open Lr (in Grid mode) and PS and tile them on your screen so you can see them both. Select and Ctrl+E a RAW image. It will open in PS. Press Ctrl+S to save it. You will see the thumbnail for the new PSD copy appear almost instantly beside the original in Lr. Now add some text to the image in PS. Save. You will see the text appear in the Lr thumbnail almost immediately (a second or two on my computer). Edits saved in PS are automatically and almost instantly rendered in Lr.

Perfect. That is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you so much.

And that's the short version. There are a few more things it's helpful to know about this stuff that I will try and post later. This one's too long already.<o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p>

Short version...hahaha. There is nothing "short version" about either of these programs. At least yet for me...

Seriously though, thank you SO much for your help. It is helping TREMENDOUSLY...

Thunder Rabbit · April 30, 2009

Howdy.

Alrighty, we'll give it another shot.

Candid Arts wrote:

A PSD file is a much larger file than an edited JPEG, so having the RAW file as well as a PSD seems like even a worse idea than keeping JPEGs that I don't need.

You are right to try and keep your catalog as tight as possible, but if want to edit in Ps, a PSD copy is unavoidable. And, there are dozens of Adobe engineers and tens of thousands of photographers who would disagree with your notion that it is a worse idea than saving jpgs.

the image does look the same. But look at your editing sliders.

The sliders are all zeroed. Which is as it should be. As far as Lr is concerned, it’s a new document, and no settings have been applied. The settings you applied to the RAW before you imported it were incorporated in the PSD copy Lr created and are no longer available.

For me however, what I do in PS doesn't entirely satisfy me.

I'm sympathetic to what you are trying to accomplish, but, conceptually, you are in the weeds.

When you import a RAW image into Lr, Lr copies the RAW file to your hard drive.. Once it’s been cataloged, it just sits there, inviolate, like a Vestal Virgin. Nothing can touch it, not even Lr. All Lr, or any other RAW engine can do, is look at it, and copy the data. When you open the RAW image in Lr, you don’t really “open” the file in the traditional sense. If you are opening anything, it’s the Lr index file for the image. Lr cannot edit the pixel data in the original file. Lr can only edit the settings in its own index file. Lr doesn’t even look at the original file unless you go into Develop mode. The point is, while it’s true that the image is "in" the Lr catalog, it’s misleading say the image is “in” Lr. It’s not. It’s on the hard drive, available to any RAW software. You can edit the RAW image in Lr or Bridge/ACR, but the image is not “in” either one. As I said, it just sits there on the hard drive. It never goes anywhere, and nothing ever happens to it. RAW files lead a very boring life.

If you Ctrl+E the RAW image Lr, Lr creates a PSD copy of the RAW file and sticks it in the folder with the original RAW file. Lr does not “move it to Ps”, as you say. It is simply copied and the copy is opened in Ps. But the image did not “leave” Lr, and is not “in” Ps. It is “in” PSD format, hanging out on the hard drive. Available for editing by any software on your computer that handles PSD. So, after we Ctrl+E, the PSD file is truly “open” in Ps, in the normal sense of the word. That is, we can change the pixel data on the hard drive (which can’t be done with a RAW file.)

(To be continued.)

<o:p> </o:p>

Thunder Rabbit · April 30, 2009

Howdy, again.

From how I gather what you're saying, you interepreted what I was asking incorrectly. I was asking how to save the file from PS so that LR finds it w/o having to import it again from LR. It seems in your response that you thought I was talking about saving the edited PSD file in LR, which I know you can't do, and don't need to do because any edits to it in LR will be saved in LR automatically. Sorry for my confusion on my first attempt to ask this.

I had previously answered, “When you create a PSD copy of a RAW image from Lr using Ctrl+E, the only thing you need to do when you want to save it is press Ctrl+S. Lr will automatically save the PSD in the same folder as the original and it will have the same name as the original, with “-Edit” tacked on to the end. This is done by default, and there is no way to change it (and no need). And Lr will see the changes as soon as you save them in PS.”

Lr doesn't need to find it. It's already in the catalog and Lr knows where it is. There is no importing or exporting involved. If the PSD file is in the Lr catalog, it is updated as soon as you “Save” in Ps. Even if the image is still open in Ps. That’s the whole point of the side by side view demonstration we did in the previous post.

If you created your PSD file by a method other than Ctrl+E, the file will not be in your catalog, and will have to be imported. Just sync the folder.

Other posters on this forum have indicated that Lr has eliminated about 90% of their need to edit in Ps. My estimate would be about the same. This says something about the power of Lr. So, ideally, as your experience in Lr grows, your need for Ps diminishes. Your best bet is to concentrate on the capabilities of Lr. It can be mastered in a fraction of the time it would take to master Ps. I've been using Lr for about a year, and Lr2 since January, and I've pretty much got it wired. I've been using Ps since version 6 (now on CS3), and I wouldn't even pretend I've mastered the half of it.

But, you've got me curious. What exactly are you doing in Ps that you can't get done in Lr?

Candid Arts · May 1, 2009

Thunder Rabbit wrote:

Howdy.

Alrighty, we'll give it another shot.

You are right to try and keep your catalog as tight as possible, but if want to edit in Ps, a PSD copy is unavoidable. And, there are dozens of Adobe engineers and tens of thousands of photographers who would disagree with your notion that it is a worse idea than saving jpgs.

I would most certainly rather have a PSD file than a JPEG file for editing, I'm purely just talking about storage space. A PSD file is MUCH larger than a JPEG file and when I already still have the RAW file, that is two large files of the same file. But, I see why I must keep it. Thank you.

The sliders are all zeroed. Which is as it should be. As far as Lr is concerned, it’s a new document, and no settings have been applied. The settings you applied to the RAW before you imported it were incorporated in the PSD copy Lr created and are no longer available.

By this I'm reffering to the RAW file straight from my camera. Black is at 5, contrast 25, brightness 50, and I'm sure some others. When I import a JPEG or PSD, all the sliders are at zero. So you're saying, the sliders that have a value from my RAW file SOOC are adjustments that my camera is making to the file prior to import to LR? I thought in a RAW file there were no adjustments from the camera (Hence RAW)?[/quote]

I'm sympathetic to what you are trying to accomplish, but, conceptually, you are in the weeds.

When you import a RAW image into Lr, Lr copies the RAW file to your hard drive.. Once it’s been cataloged, it just sits there, inviolate, like a Vestal Virgin. Nothing can touch it, not even Lr. All Lr, or any other RAW engine can do, is look at it, and copy the data. When you open the RAW image in Lr, you don’t really “open” the file in the traditional sense. If you are opening anything, it’s the Lr index file for the image. Lr cannot edit the pixel data in the original file. Lr can only edit the settings in its own index file. Lr doesn’t even look at the original file unless you go into Develop mode. The point is, while it’s true that the image is "in" the Lr catalog, it’s misleading say the image is “in” Lr. It’s not. It’s on the hard drive, available to any RAW software. You can edit the RAW image in Lr or Bridge/ACR, but the image is not “in” either one. As I said, it just sits there on the hard drive. It never goes anywhere, and nothing ever happens to it. RAW files lead a very boring life.

If you Ctrl+E the RAW image Lr, Lr creates a PSD copy of the RAW file and sticks it in the folder with the original RAW file. Lr does not “move it to Ps”, as you say. It is simply copied and the copy is opened in Ps. But the image did not “leave” Lr, and is not “in” Ps. It is “in” PSD format, hanging out on the hard drive. Available for editing by any software on your computer that handles PSD. So, after we Ctrl+E, the PSD file is truly “open” in Ps, in the normal sense of the word. That is, we can change the pixel data on the hard drive (which can’t be done with a RAW file.)

(To be continued.)

<o:p> </o:p>

That all makes complete sense. Thanks for the much needed clarification.

(On to your next post.)

Candid Arts · May 1, 2009

Thunder Rabbit wrote:

Howdy, again.

I had previously answered, “When you create a PSD copy of a RAW image from Lr using Ctrl+E, the only thing you need to do when you want to save it is press Ctrl+S. Lr will automatically save the PSD in the same folder as the original and it will have the same name as the original, with “-Edit” tacked on to the end. This is done by default, and there is no way to change it (and no need). And Lr will see the changes as soon as you save them in PS.”

Lr doesn't need to find it. It's already in the catalog and Lr knows where it is. There is no importing or exporting involved. If the PSD file is in the Lr catalog, it is updated as soon as you “Save” in Ps. Even if the image is still open in Ps. That’s the whole point of the side by side view demonstration we did in the previous post.

If you created your PSD file by a method other than Ctrl+E, the file will not be in your catalog, and will have to be imported. Just sync the folder.

Other posters on this forum have indicated that Lr has eliminated about 90% of their need to edit in Ps. My estimate would be about the same. This says something about the power of Lr. So, ideally, as your experience in Lr grows, your need for Ps diminishes. Your best bet is to concentrate on the capabilities of Lr. It can be mastered in a fraction of the time it would take to master Ps. I've been using Lr for about a year, and Lr2 since January, and I've pretty much got it wired. I've been using Ps since version 6 (now on CS3), and I wouldn't even pretend I've mastered the half of it.

But, you've got me curious. What exactly are you doing in Ps that you can't get done in Lr?

LR can honestly do that much? Wow! I had no idea. I really need to get Scott Kelby's book on LR. Just don't have the time w/ school, work, and photography.

What I mainly do in PS I guess is the clone stamp tool, guide masking for selective coloring, color filters, levels adjustments, and I'm sure a couple other things. But I've only been using PS for a couple months, so I have no idea of all it's capabilities. LR I've been using a little longer, but only recently starting really getting into everything it does other than basic adjustments. I still have no idea how to use any of the layer stuff that LR has to offer that I've heard referenced here a bit, but I'm working on it. I did an exposure adjustment layer thing in LR the other day on a photo I just could not get to work, and it's currently one of my fav. photos.

I couldn't get the shadow'ed area in the bottom right corner under the boat to look right w/o a BUNCH of noise, so I darkened the photo to get everything else the way I wanted it, then used the exposure layer thing to brighten up the front. IMO, it worked amazingly... But I have A LOT to learn on LR.

Thunder Rabbit · May 2, 2009

Howdy.

That's a very nice image. I wouldn't worry too much about the lower right. But maybe a tighter crop from the right would be worth checking out. Or just leave it be.

What I mainly do in PS I guess is the clone stamp tool, guide masking for selective coloring, color filters, levels adjustments, and I'm sure a couple other things.

The clone tool in Lr2 is the Spot Removal Tool (N). It is a very effective tool, but primitive compared to Photoshop's cloning options. It's very good at removing spots, and can be used to clone out larger things, like highlines. The interface and operation is very simple, but seems to confuse most folks at first (me included). Once you get it, it makes perfect sense. Good enough for almost all my images.

The Local Adjustment Brush (K) in Lr2 can apply hue and saturation adjustments locally. It works very well.

The Graduated Filter Tool (M) in Lr2 can apply color adjustments as a gradient mask. A really good tool.

The Tone controls in Lr are in fact levels controls. Exposure, Recovery, Fill Light, & Blacks effectively control the black and white clipping points and two midpoints. The histogram at the top is live, and responds as you move the sliders. You can also move the sliders by dragging the histogram itself left or right.

Hover over the far left of the histogram. The text below it will say "Blacks" on the left and the value of the slider will display far right. Click and drag, and the Blacks slider will move. Hover over different areas of the histogram then click and drag to adjust the other values. And then fine tune to taste in the Tone Curve controls.

Fiddle with the controls, and watch the histogram. Very illuminating.

CS3 .xmp - LR2 .xmp?

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