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New Monitor

canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
edited April 30, 2009 in Finishing School
I have just bought a 24" HP w2448hc vivid colour monitor. I have made several adjustments to the monitor and although I have toned down the brightness and the contrast on it I still find on some images for example the green grass is very vivid indeed. I also find that a lot of my saved images from my previous LCD monitor are in need of attention for example the faces need the vibrance turned down when viewing on this monitor.
If anyone can help me I would very much appreciate it.
Regards
Bob

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    pathfinderpathfinder Super Moderators Posts: 14,699 moderator
    edited April 27, 2009
    Bob, do you have a device to calibrate your monitor?

    If you do, you need to use it.

    If you do not, you need to get one, if you wish what you see on your monitor to have a consistent relationship to the data in your image files.

    Without a calibrated monitor, all bets are off. Vivid monitors will look a lot less vivid when properly calibrated. This is not a joke but a statement of fact.
    Pathfinder - www.pathfinder.smugmug.com

    Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin
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    canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited April 28, 2009
    pathfinder wrote:
    Bob, do you have a device to calibrate your monitor?

    If you do, you need to use it.

    If you do not, you need to get one, if you wish what you see on your monitor to have a consistent relationship to the data in your image files.

    Without a calibrated monitor, all bets are off. Vivid monitors will look a lot less vivid when properly calibrated. This is not a joke but a statement of fact.

    Thanks Pathfinder,
    I don't have a device to calibrate my monitor and I have never done it before so any advice would be more than appreciated.
    Thanks once again,
    Bob
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    Ric GrupeRic Grupe Registered Users Posts: 9,522 Major grins
    edited April 28, 2009
    canon400d wrote:
    Thanks Pathfinder,
    I don't have a device to calibrate my monitor and I have never done it before so any advice would be more than appreciated.
    Thanks once again,
    Bob
    In lieu of hardware calibration...you may want to try it by eyeballing it.

    Here is an excellent online resource for doing just that.

    Take your time and read carefully, Bob. Steps must be done in order.
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    arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited April 28, 2009
    Bob, you absolutely have to use a calibration instrument to do this properly and build an ICC profile for your applications to produce not only correct but consistent results. You have to do this on a regular basis as displays are not stable devices.

    Eyeball calibration is fraught with issues and should be avoided at all costs! The human visual system simply cannot do this as expressed in just one of many examples illustrated here:

    http://web.mit.edu/persci/people/adelson/checkershadow_illusion.html

    Start here:

    http://www.takegreatpictures.com/HOME/Columns/Digital_Photography/Details/Color_Management_and_Display.fci
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
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    Ric GrupeRic Grupe Registered Users Posts: 9,522 Major grins
    edited April 28, 2009
    arodney wrote:
    . Eyeball calibration is fraught with issues and should be avoided at all costs!
    Of course hardware calibration is preferable!rolleyes1.gif

    But...when you know very little about what calibration is....this is     a good place to get some knowledge.

    Nothing wrong with understanding what it is that you are trying to accomplish.
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    arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited April 28, 2009
    Ric Grupe wrote:
    Of course hardware calibration is preferable!rolleyes1.gif

    its not preferable, its absolutely necessary.

    Eyeball calibration doesn't work!
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
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    Ric GrupeRic Grupe Registered Users Posts: 9,522 Major grins
    edited April 28, 2009
    arodney wrote:
    its not preferable, its absolutely necessary.

    Eyeball calibration doesn't work!

    The point was learning something.

    Naturally someone as extremely versed in this subject, as you are, wouldn't need it.

    Too bad you didn't get here first to help the original poster...I've seen your comments on blogs all over the web. Jumping on people trying to help seems to be a pass time of yours.
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    arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited April 28, 2009
    canon400d wrote:
    Thanks Pathfinder,
    I don't have a device to calibrate my monitor and I have never done it before so any advice would be more

    I'd skip the real budget product (huey) but the EyeOne Display-2 is a very good product.

    http://www2.chromix.com/ColorGear/Shop/productdetail.cxsa?toolid=1119&-session=SessID:4C71370F0a7390FA9DPOo117E90D
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
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    arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited April 28, 2009
    Ric Grupe wrote:
    The point was learning something.

    Don't "teach" (confuse) things that are inappropriate and don't work!
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
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    ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited April 28, 2009
    Here is smugmug's own calibration help page on the topic.

    My 2 cents: If you follow the link, Andy suggests the Huey. I have had really bad luck with it and also the Spyder Pro. Eye One is the only thing that has worked on my various Apple laptops and Apple Cinema displays over the years. One thing that makes this all very frustrating is that automatic calibration seems to offers objective repeatable consistent results. Yet many people have disappointing experiences and get different results with different calibration devices and monitors.
    If not now, when?
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    canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited April 28, 2009
    rutt wrote:
    Here is smugmug's own calibration help page on the topic.

    My 2 cents: If you follow the link, Andy suggests the Huey. I have had really bad luck with it and also the Spyder Pro. Eye One is the only thing that has worked on my various Apple laptops and Apple Cinema displays over the years. One thing that makes this all very frustrating is that automatic calibration seems to offers objective repeatable consistent results. Yet many people have disappointing experiences and get different results with different calibration devices and monitors.

    Thanks ever so much Ric and Andrew - please don't fall out over my problem.I really do appreciate what you are both saying and I will look at the links you have sent me as I certainly don't have a clue as I haven't done it before. I have looked on Google and it would appear these calibrators are very expensive. This monitor cost me almost £400 but I think I should know exactly what I am doing before I order one. As I say I had no problem with my previous 20" LCD and it never needed calibrating or if it did nobody seem to make any comment in that direction.
    I will look at those links and thanks once again for your kind help which I truly appreciate.
    Regards
    Bob
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    AnthonyAnthony Registered Users Posts: 149 Major grins
    edited April 29, 2009
    Try Colour Confidence
    Hello Bob:

    Check out this link...

    http://shop.colourconfidence.com/product.php?xProd=1187&xSec=10210&jssCart=a07315b58058517083cfcab30164692b

    I have used Colour Confidence and found them very helpful. I purchased both my monitor a Spectraview 2690 and the Eye2 calibration device from them a couple of years ago and have never regretted it.

    I'm afraid this photography lark is not cheap!

    Anthony.
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    canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited April 29, 2009
    Anthony wrote:
    Hello Bob:

    Check out this link...

    http://shop.colourconfidence.com/product.php?xProd=1187&xSec=10210&jssCart=a07315b58058517083cfcab30164692b

    I have used Colour Confidence and found them very helpful. I purchased both my monitor a Spectraview 2690 and the Eye2 calibration device from them a couple of years ago and have never regretted it.

    I'm afraid this photography lark is not cheap!

    Anthony.

    Hi Anthony,
    From what you say and from what you have done for me in the past. This could be the road to go down. Is it quite easy to use and how often do you use it? You are certainly right this hobby sure is expensive. I have just bought a 17-55 2.8 and it was £800.
    Regards
    Bob
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    AnthonyAnthony Registered Users Posts: 149 Major grins
    edited April 29, 2009
    canon400d wrote:
    Hi Anthony,
    From what you say and from what you have done for me in the past. This could be the road to go down. Is it quite easy to use and how often do you use it? You are certainly right this hobby sure is expensive. I have just bought a 17-55 2.8 and it was £800.
    Regards
    Bob

    I use the calibration device about every 6-8 weeks, both on the desktop machine and my laptop.

    I think of it pretty much the same way as a car service; why spend all that money on the best kit you can and then not bother to service (calibrate) it?

    Anthony.
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    arodneyarodney Registered Users Posts: 2,005 Major grins
    edited April 29, 2009
    canon400d wrote:
    Hi Anthony,
    From what you say and from what you have done for me in the past. This could be the road to go down. Is it quite easy to use and how often do you use it? You are certainly right this hobby sure is expensive. I have just bought a 17-55 2.8 and it was £800.
    Regards
    Bob

    Its very easy to use. And its critical. If you're printing images, you'll soon find the cost of having sound color management will pay for this product in short order. RGB (and for that matter, any digital image) is a big pile of numbers. Numbers don't change by themselves. If you open a document today, and in a year, they should provide the same color appearance. They will not if you do not calibrate and profile your display on a regular basis. Another useful feature of the EyeOne software is trending. Every time you use this instrument based measuring process, the data is saved and plotted so you can for example, see how the device drifted over time. Say you calibrate and profile once a month. You see from your trending that the graph isn't as stable as you'd like, there's shifting going on at that calibration interval. You can now conduct this process once a week. This is something eyeball calibration can't provide but you could certainly use an instrument, as I've done, to illustrate how poor visual calibration can be using this kind of trending.

    The display is the most important component of the digital darkroom! You can work with less ram, slower processors but without a good display system, the window into your digital images, you're lost chasing your tail and wondering why things don't match.

    If and once you get such a product, the next task is setting out to define proper calibration target aim points (there are three). Most important is luminance, who's setting is based on the viewing conditions of the prints by your display that you wish to view and result in a match. We can get into that if and when you're ready.
    Andrew Rodney
    Author "Color Management for Photographers"
    http://www.digitaldog.net/
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    canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited April 30, 2009
    arodney wrote:
    Its very easy to use. And its critical. If you're printing images, you'll soon find the cost of having sound color management will pay for this product in short order. RGB (and for that matter, any digital image) is a big pile of numbers. Numbers don't change by themselves. If you open a document today, and in a year, they should provide the same color appearance. They will not if you do not calibrate and profile your display on a regular basis. Another useful feature of the EyeOne software is trending. Every time you use this instrument based measuring process, the data is saved and plotted so you can for example, see how the device drifted over time. Say you calibrate and profile once a month. You see from your trending that the graph isn't as stable as you'd like, there's shifting going on at that calibration interval. You can now conduct this process once a week. This is something eyeball calibration can't provide but you could certainly use an instrument, as I've done, to illustrate how poor visual calibration can be using this kind of trending.

    The display is the most important component of the digital darkroom! You can work with less ram, slower processors but without a good display system, the window into your digital images, you're lost chasing your tail and wondering why things don't match.

    If and once you get such a product, the next task is setting out to define proper calibration target aim points (there are three). Most important is luminance, who's setting is based on the viewing conditions of the prints by your display that you wish to view and result in a match. We can get into that if and when you're ready.[/quote

    Thanks Anthony and Andrew for the sound advice you have given me which I truly appreciate. I will go ahead and order the EyeOne very soon.
    Regards
    Bob
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    ruttrutt Registered Users Posts: 6,511 Major grins
    edited April 30, 2009
    This is the only calibration product that has worked for me. I have to conclude that the others fail all the time and people don't even notice.
    If not now, when?
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    CameronCameron Registered Users Posts: 745 Major grins
    edited April 30, 2009
    rutt wrote:
    This is the only calibration product that has worked for me. I have to conclude that the others fail all the time and people don't even notice.

    Having owned a Spyder2 and an EyeOne Display-2 I completely agree - I get much more consistent and accurate results from my EyeOne device, especially when calibrating a dual display setup.
    Photos
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    canon400dcanon400d Banned Posts: 2,826 Major grins
    edited May 2, 2009
    CSwinton wrote:
    Having owned a Spyder2 and an EyeOne Display-2 I completely agree - I get much more consistent and accurate results from my EyeOne device, especially when calibrating a dual display setup.

    Thanks Rutt and Cameron that is really reassuring and has made my mind up that the EyeOne is the one to go for,
    Regards
    Bob
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