Ack, do I really need 3 PWs?

ShepsMom

I'm looking to by a Pocket Wizard(s), but from what i understand i need 3. One for camera and 2 for 2 of my strobes. Is this the only way?

Cameron

ShepsMom wrote:

I'm looking to by a Pocket Wizard(s), but from what i understand i need 3. One for camera and 2 for 2 of my strobes. Is this the only way?

You may be able to just get one for the camera and one for one strobe - the other strobe could be fired with an optical trigger (built-in to many/most strobes). It's the same as having a sync-cord from the camera to one strobe and having the other fire when it sees the first fire. It depends on what you're trying to do, but assuming you're in a fairly small space and indoors the optical trigger on the 2nd strobe should work fine.

ShepsMom

CSwinton wrote:

You may be able to just get one for the camera and one for one strobe - the other strobe could be fired with an optical trigger (built-in to many/most strobes). It's the same as having a sync-cord from the camera to one strobe and having the other fire when it sees the first fire. It depends on what you're trying to do, but assuming you're in a fairly small space and indoors the optical trigger on the 2nd strobe should work fine.

Thanks CS. I have in home studio, and using my camera as a trigger, so that's not a biggy. I need PWs for a larger distance and lighting up bigger spaces.
Can you please tell me more about optical trigger? (my strobes are SB600 and SB800) I'm technically challanged and wouldn't know what/where and how :cry

Art Scott

ShepsMom wrote:

Thanks CS. I have in home studio, and using my camera as a trigger, so that's not a biggy. I need PWs for a larger distance and lighting up bigger spaces.
Can you please tell me more about optical trigger? (my strobes are SB600 and SB800) I'm technically challanged and wouldn't know what/where and how :cry

tHERE IS a small hole in the back or in the reflector area that houses a sensor....that sensor is the optical slave.....sometimes the optical slave picks up it signal thru cooling vents also.....anywhere light can enter..........


Seriously if you are needing to use a RF trigger have you looked at the ebay options out there.....I have under $80 invested and I have 5 receivers and 3 transmiters....I know that sounds strange.....but I have a way at looking at equipment....so i transmitter for me and one for a 2nd shooter (set to separate channel) and the 3rd is a back up and as for the receivers....I have 5 strobes right now that I can use them with and basically that is 2 for me and 2 for 2nd shooter and 1 back up......

The ones linked above are the ones I am using until someone gets some that are reasonably priced that will actually TTL with camera and at least 5 flash units.....but since I normally use mine with studio strobes and sunpak 622's or other "auto" flash units TTL doesn't really matter as I meter everything I shoot with flash

Scott_Quier

ShepsMom wrote:

I'm looking to by a Pocket Wizard(s), but from what i understand i need 3. One for camera and 2 for 2 of my strobes. Is this the only way?

In a small space where you are the only shooter, you don't need any - but you've already figured that out.

For larger spaces, optical triggers may work but probably won't. An optical trigger is a small, light sensing component on the strobe and some speedlights (the Sigma DG 500 Super has I know) that will trigger the strobe when it sees the flash from another strobe (or P&S flash, even). Do you need a trigger for each strobe? Depends. You only need one for those strobes that don't have good line-of-site to another strobe you KNOW will fire each time it's supposed. In such a situation, you can get away with fewer.

Where you need the radio triggers is those situations where you are not the only flash photographer or there is physical obstruction between the stobes or they can't see each other for one reason or another.

Imagine you are photographing a wedding reception. You have your optical slave triggered strobes set up. Everyone and their mother is there with their little P&S cameras, integrated flash just flashing away. Every time one of these goes off, if your strobe has had a chance to recycle, it will pop again. Not only is this a pain for you, but most of the photos captured by the guests will be over-exposed!

Art's suggestion to look at the cheaper alternatives holds much merit - at least it does to my mind. If they are reliable and have the range you need - there you go. When I invested in my triggers, I needed to be sure they would fire each time and everytime and I was anticipating the need, once in a while, to trigger from quite some distance (which has happened more than once). At the time, only the PocketWizard II met all requirements. So, I paid the price and got them. I have, literally, triggered them from about 1/4 mile away for a shot - they worked and I got the shot.

time2smile

I dont understand (I have a Nikon D50, no built in commander) :cry

Your Nikons have a built in iTTL commander, that will fire either one of your units (SB600 & SB800). Why would anyone need anything else.

I do understand there may be distance issues at times, that a PW would be needed (I know I would like to have a few).

Cameron

ShepsMom wrote:

Thanks CS. I have in home studio, and using my camera as a trigger, so that's not a biggy. I need PWs for a larger distance and lighting up bigger spaces.
Can you please tell me more about optical trigger? (my strobes are SB600 and SB800) I'm technically challanged and wouldn't know what/where and how :cry

Ok, since you're talking about speedlights and not studio strobes it's probably a different matter... I don't think the SB600 or SB800 have optical triggers - you can buy external ones but you'd probably be better off getting an inexpensive radio trigger setup like Art mentioned. PocketWizards seem to be the "gold standard" for these types of triggers but can be pricey but there are other reliable options.

ARKreations

The SB800 does have a built-in optical trigger. The SB600 does not.

ShepsMom

Scott_Quier wrote:

In a small space where you are the only shooter, you don't need any - but you've already figured that out.

Yep! )

Where you need the radio triggers is those situations where you are not the only flash photographer or there is physical obstruction between the stobes or they can't see each other for one reason or another.
Imagine you are photographing a wedding reception. You have your optical slave triggered strobes set up. Everyone and their mother is there with their little P&S cameras, integrated flash just flashing away. Every time one of these goes off, if your strobe has had a chance to recycle, it will pop again. Not only is this a pain for you, but most of the photos captured by the guests will be over-exposed!

That is precisely a problem. i'll be covering a wedding which will be held in a low-lit area, and need either dive in and buy PWs or find an alternative. The one you described above probably wont cut it. I'll be driving to the place on a weekend and see what the situation is.

Art's suggestion to look at the cheaper alternatives holds much merit - at least it does to my mind. If they are reliable and have the range you need - there you go. When I invested in my triggers, I needed to be sure they would fire each time and everytime and I was anticipating the need, once in a while, to trigger from quite some distance (which has happened more than once). At the time, only the PocketWizard II met all requirements. So, I paid the price and got them. I have, literally, triggered them from about 1/4 mile away for a shot - they worked and I got the shot.

Well, of courser reliability is a MUST, i'm such a perfectionist, that i need everything to be perfect, I know, it drives me crazy sometimes.
So you're saying that cheaper alternatives to PWs might not be reliable? What brands, if any, can you guys recommend? If they can't be reliable, what good are they?

ShepsMom

ARKreations wrote:

The SB800 does have a built-in optical trigger. The SB600 does not.

PWs will work with either flash, if i'm correct. Right?

ShepsMom

time2smile wrote:

I dont understand (I have a Nikon D50, no built in commander) :cry

Your Nikons have a built in iTTL commander, that will fire either one of your units (SB600 & SB800). Why would anyone need anything else.

Because of the large distance. I need ability to move around away from my flashes and not be attached to them, that's not an option. I'm not sure what's the largest distance available when using camera to trigger lights. Is it something like less than 30 feet, if even that?

Art Scott

ShepsMom wrote:

Because of the large distance. I need ability to move around away from my flashes and not be attached to them, that's not an option. I'm not sure what's the largest distance available when using camera to trigger lights. Is it something like less than 30 feet, if even that?

The flash triggers that i linked to above have been reliable for me....I have been using them for almost a year....they do what I want them to...fire the flash........Now if your flash units do not have a pc connector you will need a hotshoe adapter (hotshoe to pc cord adapter) and most have a 1/4-20 threaded connector in bottom to attach directly to a pod or light stand.......I only use Auto flash units so I am not worrying about all the computerization a lot of dedicated flash units have...........
The effective range is 150 feet (50M) for most wedding and receptions that is a great distance unless it is held in The Dolphins Stadium.........

Scott_Quier

Art Scott wrote:

The flash triggers that i linked to above have been reliable for me....I have been using them for almost a year....they do what I want them to...fire the flash........Now if your flash units do not have a pc connector you will need a hotshoe adapter (hotshoe to pc cord adapter) and most have a 1/4-20 threaded connector in bottom to attach directly to a pod or light stand.......I only use Auto flash units so I am not worrying about all the computerization a lot of dedicated flash units have...........
The effective range is 150 feet (50M) for most wedding and receptions that is a great distance unless it is held in The Dolphins Stadium.........

I would agree - if you are getting reliable results at the range you indicate - that's a very attractive alternative to PWs.

ShepsMom

Art, thank you for the info, i will research this a little bit farther. Appreciate all the input

eta: Just checked, my SB800 has a PC connector, but not SB600

Cameron

Scott_Quier wrote:

I would agree - if you are getting reliable results at the range you indicate - that's a very attractive alternative to PWs.

I also recently purchased CyberSync transmitter/receiver (http://www.alienbees.com/remotes.html) - not quite as cheap as Art's setup but much cheaper than the PW's. In testing I've fired that without any misfires at ~100ft with multiple walls in between.
I've also heard good things about the Elinchrom Skyports and the Cactus brand triggers (frequently sold on ebay).

time2smile

ShepsMom wrote:

Because of the large distance. I need ability to move around away from my flashes and not be attached to them, that's not an option. I'm not sure what's the largest distance available when using camera to trigger lights. Is it something like less than 30 feet, if even that?

You have them it would be easy to test...

I'm trying to find the distance the built in commander will work at for the SB800 and SB600. Here is a link for some info on the SB600
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/sb600.htm

I also agree with Art and Scott those generic PW units have had great reviews.

time2smile

The only thing I found was that the SU-800 is rated at 66ft with no line of sight needed. The D series camera commanders may be the same spec, as I mentioned above you can always test it yourself with no added costs to you.

ShepsMom

time2smile wrote:

The only thing I found was that the SU-800 is rated at 66ft with no line of sight needed. The D series camera commanders may be the same spec, as I mentioned above you can always test it yourself with no added costs to you.

I sure will test the distance, and have a perfect opportunity to do that.

pathfinder

If you shoot weddings for a living, and you cannot use the integrated Nikon wireless system because of distance, I would suggest you give serious consideration to the new generation of PWs - the PW FlexTT5 that offers radio control with iTTL control

More money up front, but offers complete exposure control of subject and background.

ShepsMom

pathfinder wrote:

If you shoot weddings for a living, and you cannot use the integrated Nikon wireless system because of distance, I would suggest you give serious consideration to the new generation of PWs - the PW FlexTT5 that offers radio control with iTTL control

More money up front, but offers complete exposure control of subject and background.

Pathfinder, i'm not sure how this system works, do you have to buy all 3 items? Where do you attach what? I'm probably not looking in the right place. Is there are set up tut somewhere?

pathfinder

You wil need one transmitter and a receiver for each flash. The unit I linked to is actually both a transmitter and a receiver - it can do either, it is both " AC/DC" ( That is a joke, not an innuendo )

PW makes a small transmitter only as well, the MiniTT1

The beauty of these devices is that they work as standard PWs, they will trigger or receive from standard PWs ( if my understanding is correct ) but more importantly, they extend the reach of your iTTL control to over 300 feet. Which means that appropriate Nikon system flashes will be fully automatically controlled just like the wireless commander system Nikon builds in many of its camera/flash combinations.

ShepsMom

pathfinder wrote:

You wil need one transmitter and a receiver for each flash. The unit I linked to is actually both a transmitter and a receiver - it can do either, it is both " AC/DC" ( That is a joke, not an innuendo )

PW makes a small transmitter only as well, the MiniTT1

The beauty of these devices is that they work as standard PWs, they will trigger or receive from standard PWs ( if my understanding is correct ) but more importantly, they extend the reach of your iTTL control to over 300 feet. Which means that appropriate Nikon system flashes will be fully automatically controlled just like the wireless commander system Nikon builds in many of its camera/flash combinations.

So you still have to by separate units for the camera and 2 flashes? Am i correct? So they pretty much work as PW?

Scott_Quier

ShepsMom wrote:

So you still have to by separate units for the camera and 2 flashes? Am i correct? So they pretty much work as PW?

Yes - for each camera you want to use to trigger flashes, you need a device that will transmit. For each strobe/flash you want to be triggered, you need to either depend on the optical slave (we've already discussed that) or a triggering receiver device.

So, 1 camera, 2 flashes ---> one transmitting device and two receiving devices.

FedererPhoto

ShepsMom wrote:

Because of the large distance. I need ability to move around away from my flashes and not be attached to them, that's not an option. I'm not sure what's the largest distance available when using camera to trigger lights. Is it something like less than 30 feet, if even that?

I've triggered my SB800's with an on-camera SB900 from over a football field away. It really depends on which way the recieving sensor in the SB800 is pointed, and how much ambient light there is. I've had times where I couldn't get SB800's to fire from 3 feet away -- because the sun was full-on streaming into the sensor.

FedererPhoto

pathfinder wrote:

You wil need one transmitter and a receiver for each flash. The unit I linked to is actually both a transmitter and a receiver - it can do either, it is both " AC/DC" ( That is a joke, not an innuendo )

PW makes a small transmitter only as well, the MiniTT1

The beauty of these devices is that they work as standard PWs, they will trigger or receive from standard PWs ( if my understanding is correct ) but more importantly, they extend the reach of your iTTL control to over 300 feet. Which means that appropriate Nikon system flashes will be fully automatically controlled just like the wireless commander system Nikon builds in many of its camera/flash combinations.

It was my understanding those weren't going to be out for Nikon until June. Have they come out early?

captnemo

Anyone else try the cactus V4's yet? I was a little hesitant as the previous cactus v2 triggers got bad reviews but so far I've been really happy with the V4's. I wrote up a little review with pics on my blog
Definitely a lot cheaper then pocket wizards and a lot less bulky then my quanta radio trigger.

They've even held up to the rigors of cave photography so far.