New LG Monitor & NVidia G-Force - Help

srptopdog

Hello Grinners -

I just purchased a new LG 22" monitor today which was badly needed!

I am using this monitor with a 4 year old HP desktop machine, and I am driving this monitor with the built-in video hardware that is down on the motherboard. It is pushing the LG monitors' full 1680 x 1050 resolution w/o any problems, at 32 bit color.

Although I have not calibrated this monitor for accurate color reproduction yet (this will be my next step), I am wondering if I need to upgrade to a separate video display card. I also purchased an NVidia G-Force 8400 video adapter with 512 MB of RAM, HOWEVER - after running the monitor w/o the G-Force it looks so good I am wondering if I really need this new adapter. I am persuing pro-level photography, and use LightRoom and PS CS4 (but my budget is tight, too!).

What should I do? And... what is the norm for pro-level work? I do not care about gaming and such.

Thanks very much.

srptopdog ~

Newsy

srptopdog wrote:

Hello Grinners -

I just purchased a new LG 22" monitor today which was badly needed!

*snip*

What should I do? And... what is the norm for pro-level work? I do not care about gaming and such.

So what do you want to hear first... the good or the bad?

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The good.... you can use the on board video from your PC. No need for a new video card. However, CS4 has the ability to use a better quality discrete video card to accelerate the graphics display - it is an option you have to enable. Down the road you can upgrade but right now the monitor is much more important.

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The bad.... IMHO you bought the wrong monitor to support "pro-level" work.

All the 22 inch LG monitors currently on the market, that I'm aware of, use a "TN" TFT LCD panel. This is the least favoured panel for image viewing and editing. You could have bought the Dell 2209WA if you were on a budget. However, the TN paneled monitor is still usable but you'll find there are issues with off angle viewing and, as it is a 6 bit colour depth that has been dithered to simulate an 8 bit colour depth, you may find some issues with colour accuracy and banding/posterization.

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&mo1=477&p1=4862&ma2=35&mo2=371&p2=3450&ph=8


Ultimately, I highly recommend that you source a monitor with either an "IPS" or "PVA" panel and for sure you should acquire a hardware calibrator. If you check out the various screens from that Face-To-Face site, you'll see some results that are prior to calibration and another that is post calibration. You simply cannot calibrate by eye to the degree of accuracy that a hardware calibrator provides. If you're planning on colour proofing images in CS4 prior to sending them to a commercial printer, you will need this degree of colour accuracy.

Here is one of my recent posts in this forum where I've listed a number of good monitors for image editing.

http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1084285&postcount=5


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D'Buggs

Newsy - I just did the moniter-a-round. LG has a; LG W2220 (22"), that utilizes IPS panels.

srptopdog

the good, the bad (at least no ugly)
OK. I have some reading to do. The unnecessary video accelerator can be returned, and the money can go toward the proper monitor type and for calibration tools.

Another question please. The monitor I purchased (LG 2252TQ) states a dynamic contrast ratio of 10,000:1. Other monitors had higher CRs however. When I spoke to the salesperson about this, he said that this is a non-standardized (marketing driven) number, because this number is 'dynamic.' However, I was looking at a dell that had a 'static' CR (of 1000:1) and looked great. Any thoughts?

Finally - any calibration tools you would recommend?

Thanks for the very informative reply.

srptopdog ~

www.PerlaVision.com

Newsy wrote:

So what do you want to hear first... the good or the bad?

.
.
.
.

The good.... you can use the on board video from your PC. No need for a new video card. However, CS4 has the ability to use a better quality discrete video card to accelerate the graphics display - it is an option you have to enable. Down the road you can upgrade but right now the monitor is much more important.

.
.
.
.

The bad.... IMHO you bought the wrong monitor to support "pro-level" work.

All the 22 inch LG monitors currently on the market, that I'm aware of, use a "TN" TFT LCD panel. This is the least favoured panel for image viewing and editing. You could have bought the Dell 2209WA if you were on a budget. However, the TN paneled monitor is still usable but you'll find there are issues with off angle viewing and, as it is a 6 bit colour depth that has been dithered to simulate an 8 bit colour depth, you may find some issues with colour accuracy and banding/posterization.

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&mo1=477&p1=4862&ma2=35&mo2=371&p2=3450&ph=8


Ultimately, I highly recommend that you source a monitor with either an "IPS" or "PVA" panel and for sure you should acquire a hardware calibrator. If you check out the various screens from that Face-To-Face site, you'll see some results that are prior to calibration and another that is post calibration. You simply cannot calibrate by eye to the degree of accuracy that a hardware calibrator provides. If you're planning on colour proofing images in CS4 prior to sending them to a commercial printer, you will need this degree of colour accuracy.

Here is one of my recent posts in this forum where I've listed a number of good monitors for image editing.

http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1084285&postcount=5


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srptopdog

good to know
Thanks - I'll look into this model too, as I do like the overall image quality of the LG.

D'Buggs wrote:

Newsy - I just did the moniter-a-round. LG has a; LG W2220 (22"), that utilizes IPS panels.

Newsy

D'Buggs wrote:

Newsy - I just did the moniter-a-round. LG has a; LG W2220 (22"), that utilizes IPS panels.

It has been announced but I don't believe it is currently shipping - expected on store shelves in June or July.

That would be the:

LG W2220P

- 22", 1920 x 1200 resolution, 5ms G2G response time, 1000:1 contrast ratio, 300 cd/m2 brightness, 178/178 viewing angles.


We also don't know at this time where it will come in price wise. A lot of people are hoping it will have one of these "eIPS" panels like the Dell 2209WA in order to keep the cost down.

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Newsy

srptopdog wrote:

Another question please. The monitor I purchased (LG 2252TQ) states a dynamic contrast ratio of 10,000:1. Other monitors had higher CRs however. When I spoke to the salesperson about this, he said that this is a non-standardized (marketing driven) number, because this number is 'dynamic.' However, I was looking at a dell that had a 'static' CR (of 1000:1) and looked great. Any thoughts?

Finally - any calibration tools you would recommend?

Re: Contrast Ratio's

Your sales rep spoke the truth. Ignore ALL the hype about contrast ratio's. I've seen it escalate from 5000:1 all the way to 30,000:1 - they are using an electronic techniques to generate artificial contrast ratio's. Smoke & Mirrors!

In the other thread I linked to, there is a URL for Prad.de. Here it is again:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html

Go into any of the recent monitors (past 18 months) with "very good" reviews and find the stated contrast ratio AFTER calibration. You'll see that in almost all cases they are between 500:1 and 800:1 and none approach anywhere near 10,000:1 - Prad calibrates with a top notch hardware based system as part of their testing.

So what does that tell you?

Those monitors with the dynamic contrast are marketed to gamers and people wanting to watch HDTV video on their computer monitors..... typically, university students on a budget.



As to calibration hardware, TFT Central has a nice list and reviews:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews.htm

They've changed names a bit since their last test but it will give you an idea where to start.

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D'Buggs

Newsy wrote:

It has been announced but I don't believe it is currently shipping - expected on store shelves in June or July.

That would be the:

LG W2220P

- 22", 1920 x 1200 resolution, 5ms G2G response time, 1000:1 contrast ratio, 300 cd/m2 brightness, 178/178 viewing angles.


We also don't know at this time where it will come in price wise. A lot of people are hoping it will have one of these "eIPS" panels like the Dell 2209WA in order to keep the cost down.

I had *someone* give me paper on one (NCIX???)... eeergh' cant remember. There was no mention of wait times, I just assumed it was an option - Didn't pay much attention to it as I was hell bent on a HP.

You could be right.

srptopdog

thanks again
Thanks again for all the great info. I may fire off one more question on this thread, but I want to do a bit more reading first.

Cheers!

srptopdog ~
www.perlavision.com

D'Buggs wrote:

I had *someone* give me paper on one (NCIX???)... eeergh' cant remember. There was no mention of wait times, I just assumed it was an option - Didn't pay much attention to it as I was hell bent on a HP.

You could be right.

Robert

Newsy wrote:

It has been announced but I don't believe it is currently shipping - expected on store shelves in June or July.

That would be the:

LG W2220P

- 22", 1920 x 1200 resolution, 5ms G2G response time, 1000:1 contrast ratio, 300 cd/m2 brightness, 178/178 viewing angles.


We also don't know at this time where it will come in price wise. A lot of people are hoping it will have one of these "eIPS" panels like the Dell 2209WA in order to keep the cost down.

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I guess this is as good a place as any to thank ‘Newsy’ for his patience in answering individual posts, despite them being of the same subject. Your posts have been most helpful to me. Although it was pretty painful to follow all the links and read most of them, it has given me a fair idea about monitors.
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I was just two minutes from ordering the Dell 2209WA, when I came across the LG W2220P.
<o:p></o:p>
I found this German link. You can use Google translator for it:
http://de.lge.com/about/mobile/mobil/read_04_PRO%7CNEWS_7035_1_print.jhtml
<o:p></o:p>
This page says that the price of the LG W2220P is supposed to be 260 Euro. But it also says that it is supposed to be available from July 09. Apparently no sign of it so far.
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There is also a PDF file with the specifications (in German):<o:p></o:p>
http://de.lge.com/download/product/1236101114716_01_LG W2220P.pdf&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;
<o:p></o:p>
Something tells me this could be worth while waiting for.
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Thanks for the info

Zanotti

Is it possible to use an external video card on a laptop? I thought that video was essentiually hardwired to the motherboard and that seperate components, like on a desktop, were not possible?

I have the classic Dell XPS laptop - with the prone to failure Nvide card - its already failed twice (under Warranty) but I always worry.

Suggestions?


Z

Newsy

Robert wrote:

I was just two minutes from ordering the Dell 2209WA, when I came across the LG W2220P.
<o:p></o:p>
I found this German link. You can use Google translator for it:
http://de.lge.com/about/mobile/mobil/read_04_PRO%7CNEWS_7035_1_print.jhtml
<o:p></o:p>
This page says that the price of the LG W2220P is supposed to be 260 Euro. But it also says that it is supposed to be available from July 09. Apparently no sign of it so far.
<o:p></o:p>
There is also a PDF file with the specifications (in German):<o:p></o:p>
http://de.lge.com/download/product/1236101114716_01_LG W2220P.pdf&lt;o:p&gt;&lt;/o:p&gt;
<o:p></o:p>
Something tells me this could be worth while waiting for.

Good info!

I've read "speculation" in other forums that the first panels for this new LG monitor have been allocated to Asia, holding up deliveries to Europe & N.A..

Also, good luck with the 2209WA at the moment as most Dell web sites world wide have removed their listings for it as of a couple of weeks ago. Again, way too much "speculation" that Dell has ceased production. Personally, I think they were simply overwhelmed by demand and are playing catch up - but... some companies work out strange contractual agreements for supply of product in a calendar period so you never know! Dell sources the e-IPS panel from LG.

Newsy

Zanotti wrote:

Is it possible to use an external video card on a laptop? I thought that video was essentiually hardwired to the motherboard and that seperate components, like on a desktop, were not possible?

I have the classic Dell XPS laptop - with the prone to failure Nvide card - its already failed twice (under Warranty) but I always worry.

I've seen product announcements or sneak peeks for USB to monitor video. Not sure if they are what you are looking for,

The two sites I've spotted these on have been....

http://www.engadget.com/

http://gizmodo.com/


If you Google "USB to VGA" or "USB to DVI" you'lll find lots of these.


examples:

http://www.virtuavia.eu/shop/index.php?target=products&product_id=29871&sl=EN

http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/25/iogears-wireless-usb-to-vga-kit-extends-your-monitor-sans-wires/

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Robert

Newsy wrote:

Good info!

I've read "speculation" in other forums that the first panels for this new LG monitor have been allocated to Asia, holding up deliveries to Europe & N.A..

Also, good luck with the 2209WA at the moment as most Dell web sites world wide have removed their listings for it as of a couple of weeks ago. Again, way too much "speculation" that Dell has ceased production. Personally, I think they were simply overwhelmed by demand and are playing catch up - but... some companies work out strange contractual agreements for supply of product in a calendar period so you never know! Dell sources the e-IPS panel from LG.

I didn’t think it was worth the wait for the LG W2220P any more. I needed a decent screen and I needed it asap. I didn’t want to risk ending up with neither of the two LCDs, so I ordered the Dell 2209WA of the Irish Dell website for Euro 265.05 pre Tax / Euro 322.04 in total.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
The Order Date was the 24/07/2009. I got email notification that the estimated delivery date for the order is on or before 02/09/2009.
To my surprise, the currier rang yesterday (06/08/09) to arrange delivery.<o:p></o:p>
My Dell 2209WA arrived today (07/08/09 -- nice date -- has got to be a lucky screen J)<o:p></o:p>
I know this is not a lot of use to the rest of the world, but we know at least that the monitor is at this stage available in Ireland and it took 2 weeks for delivery.
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I have tried to find out from LG when the W2220P is going to be available, but they just passed me on to their email-support, who knew NOTHING, while pretending to do. In response to my query about the availability of the W2220P, their answers were just empty waffling. They told me that I could buy the W2220P from a list of major retailers and suggested that it was advisable to purchase the monitor from those rather than online.<o:p></o:p>
Needless to say, the first retailer I called to (PC World) never heard of the model and could not find it on their records.<o:p></o:p>
Further more, the phone number I was supposed to call if I had any further questions would not work from Ireland.
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I’ve had my dealings with Dell and would have preferred to find another supplier, but the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t know; and LG has done nothing to convince me that their service is better than Dell.
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I am writing this on my new screen, and so far, I can’t fault it. The colours seem fine (I have no calibration tool, yet) and I have turned down the brightness to zero for working at night time. Wouldn’t mind, if I could lower it just a small bit more when working with a white background.
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<o:p></o:p>
I just wonder about one small detail: The Model says 2209WAf. Does anyone know where the ‘f’ appeared from? Is this a newer model or was the f just never mentioned before?<o:p></o:p>

Newsy

Robert wrote:

I just wonder about one small detail: The Model says 2209WAf. Does anyone know where the ‘f’ appeared from? Is this a newer model or was the f just never mentioned before?<o:p></o:p>

2209WAf is OK. All the USA ones have this printed on the little pull-out card you'll find installed somewhere on the backside of the monitor.

FYI... the new Dell 24" is said to be the U2410f and it is said to use the same H-IPS screen as the HP LP2475w. I'm playing with the thought that "f" may denote IPS panels in their new monitors. Will have to research this a bit more.

Read the Prad.de and TFTCentral reviews on the 2209WA. They comment on the colour out of the box.

Also, this next site has before and after calibration data showing the colours that are boosted too high from the factory. It may halp you in tweaking the settings. Note: A pop-up will appear... click "Continue" as the other two options redirect you to other legit web sites but they don't show the data I want you to get to. I have no idea why they've done this so click "Continue".

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&mo1=477&p1=4862&ma2=23&mo2=450&p2=4451&ph=5


And this site is useful for eyeballing some settings, particularly gamma.

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

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Robert

Newsy wrote:

2209WAf is OK. All the USA ones have this printed on the little pull-out card ...

Thanks for the reassurance and the links. The lagom link is one for keeps. Just have to work my way through it now.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Considering the price, I’m very pleased so far with the 2209WA(f).<o:p></o:p>