yes i understand, my word choice was totally unacceptable...
i guess i didnt take well to being singled out with contempt....
thanks for the real-check, i dont know why i even responded to it, it was a bad choice.
I too am guilty of being a little too snarky in this thread, and I apologize.
I just wanted to make a few closing points (that really just reiterate what others here have said):
1) the wording of the contract is a little heavy-handed considering the rapidly declining price of "pro" equipment as well as the rapid spending of many "amateurs" :-}
2) I think the demand to be the only professional (paid) photographer at a wedding, and to have exclusive access during portrait sessions, etc. is completely reasonable.
3) sometimes guests like to take photos at weddings *and* know how to stay out of the way of the professional photog and let him or her do his job.
I feel bad that an inconsiderate guest blocked Kathy's shot of the wedding kiss. (Kathy -- did the guest have a camera? I assume so in the context of this thread.) I try and hope that I've always been out of the way of pros for shots like that.
At the same time, *the kiss* is of course what everyone cranes their necks (and stands up!) to see, with or without a camera in front of them. It's the "money shot", and if I were a pro, I'd make sure I'd staked out a spot that was fairly clear of anyone (watch it Uncle Bill!) who might stand up in front of me.
I know I don't have the fortitude to be a pro. The thought of somebody entrusting me to *not* miss those moments freaks me out, even if I did have a 5DMII or 50D.
So kudos to all your pros. I'll try to stay out of your way. Please just let me bring my camera to the wedding?
I've been to a couple of weddings this summer and luckily they both had truely fantastic photographers who weren't threatened by guest shooters and were happy to chat about photography when it was quiet, one who's gear bag was almost identical to mine (except he had a bit of a play with my tilt shift before the ceremony) and yes for me shooting at a wedding is enjoyable. Being somewhere where everyone is looking fantastic and enjoying themselves WITHOUT a camera is my idea of hell.
I've also never been to a wedding where the hired shooter has hung around even until the speeches or dinner started. That's usually when I'm just getting started, and every bride and groom I've known has been most thankful for the photos I've given them that they otherwise wouldn't have had. Let alone the photos of the guests getting the party started while the bride and groom are off getting their formals taken.
Like these from a recent wedding, only a handful in that gallery would be similar to what the pro got.
Being somewhere where everyone is looking fantastic and enjoying themselves WITHOUT a camera is my idea of hell.
This I understand.....however I do keep an eye so to speak on your types......shooting off angle is ok but never over my shoulder...gotta have my sacred space
I've also never been to a wedding where the hired shooter has hung around even until the speeches or dinner started. Fire the lazy basta**......I have only left a wedding without shooting the reception if the B/G did not contract for a full wedding.....but the norm is stay with B/G until at least the Garter and Bouquet are tossed and that is after cutting cake and first dance......i just can see how a photog can leave before it is all recorded......scratch There is just so much that goes on at the reception....not to mention the free meal and cake (usually...well not the cake)
Like these from a recent wedding, only a handful in that gallery would be similar to what the pro got.
I get the space thing, While the group photos are being taken I was round the side of the chapel in the garden taking photos of the other guests.
Part of the reason I politely turn down requests to shoot friends weddings, I tell them I'll come with a camera and take some lovely pictures, but I don't know how to pose people.
Which is why banning all pro cameras (see how I tie this back into the start of the thread) is just crazy, isn't this why you have an assistant, wedding planner, best man, bridemaid etc. to manage the crowd into doing what they are supposed to and to make sure the day runs smoothly?
I've also never been to a wedding where the hired shooter has hung around even until the speeches or dinner started. That's usually when I'm just getting started, and every bride and groom I've known has been most thankful for the photos I've given them that they otherwise wouldn't have had. Let alone the photos of the guests getting the party started while the bride and groom are off getting their formals taken.
Like these from a recent wedding, only a handful in that gallery would be similar to what the pro got.
I'm with Art on this one. I don't think I've done a single wedding where I've not been there for what I call the magic 4 (cake cutting, first dance(s), bouquet toss, and garter hunt and toss). Sometimes that means I'm there until the DJ starts breaking down his set.
As you've shown, there are some magic moments that happen later in the day. My job, as a wedding photographer, is to capture the moments that describe the day so they can be charished later.
I put in my contract, that I understand that guests will bring their own cameras. But they could shoot after I do the formals and such, because if they distract the B&G while I am officially shooting it could interfere with the photos.
I didn't include that I would walk out if there others with pro gear, but I did add that if the uncle xxxs were being overly aggressive/rude with the shots enough for me to say no more I would walk out.
Wasn't sure if it was wise or not to join in here but I'll contribute my one wedding photography story...
Attended a good friend's wedding one year ago where the hired photographer was/is a 'top 10 in America' caliber guy. I brought along my humble Canon XT with a Sigma 30mm mated to it. This was mostly because my wife was unable to attend and I figured that, instead of dancing, I could shoot a few frames...
The pro turned to me early on as I was part of an early private session and just told me to stay out of his way - no problem I replied. Went about shooting from the side for a few frames and later hung out with the groom's family a bit and grabbed some candids. I think I took one shot from my seat during the actual ceremony.
Now, during the cocktail hour, the groom came down to grab me and informed me that neither the pro nor his assistant had shown any interest in candid shots - I'm not sure what the conversation actually sounded like. So I went up and took shots of the bride, groom and the bridesmaids taking a break, getting ready for the reception, etc. Shots that would NOT have been taken had I not brought my camera.
Back at the reception, I shot a few more from afar during the speeches and, later, some more candids when the bride or groom left the main hall for a few moments. It was near the end of the wedding (and not that late) and I realized the pro had left before the bouquet had been tossed! I grabbed another friend of the groom who had brought his dSLR and pointed him to one side of the room and I grabbed the other. The two of us provided the only coverage there was for this part of the night. Again I don't know what transpired to have caused the Pro to leave early...
Two weeks later, I sent the bride and groom my shots put together as a Blurb book as my wedding present. I hadn't anticipated doing this beforehand but I had ended up taking almost all of the PJ/candid shots they had and felt they deserved to have those in a tangible book.
I don't expect that this situation will ever happen again but it goes to show that sometimes the guest with the camera can actually provide something the Pro does not and maybe even 'save the day' (or at least one aspect of it).
My personal opinion is that restricting guests from taking pictures is simply a money deal.
Guests crowding you or getting in your way would be a major deal. But in the world of digital, even another flash going off and hurting a shot is not life ending, just snap another.
This seems to be a bit of a hold over from film days where the number of shots were much fewer simply because of film costs and lack of immediate feedback.
Wrong Pro
It sounds like they did not hire the right pro for the shots they wanted - of course you don't klnow that they didn't ask for all posed and traditional shots either. And maybe the timeline went beyond the contracted time. For example, maybe they only booked 4 or 6 hours of coverage. I'd never leave without checking if they wanted an extension of time, but never without permission and I'd actually ask them to step up those parts they want covered before I left if they hadn't occurred yet.
As a pro, you have choices about the contracts you write. You can say "no" to all other photographers or you can embrace them and ask they not shoot the various posed shots until you've got your shot. For the later, a simple explanation could be that their flash might interfere with your ability to get the shot and waiting insures you get what the bride and groom asked for. And strange as it sounds, a couple of extra minutes to let a few people snap a shot after you've got yours might also help keep everything on-time. And not the least, everyone's happy. You might even offer advice if granny asks for it.
One advantage of this approach is that people remember you and that might earn you additional work later on.
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Stop it now, please.
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i guess i didnt take well to being singled out with contempt....
thanks for the real-check, i dont know why i even responded to it, it was a bad choice.
I just wanted to make a few closing points (that really just reiterate what others here have said):
1) the wording of the contract is a little heavy-handed considering the rapidly declining price of "pro" equipment as well as the rapid spending of many "amateurs" :-}
2) I think the demand to be the only professional (paid) photographer at a wedding, and to have exclusive access during portrait sessions, etc. is completely reasonable.
3) sometimes guests like to take photos at weddings *and* know how to stay out of the way of the professional photog and let him or her do his job.
I feel bad that an inconsiderate guest blocked Kathy's shot of the wedding kiss. (Kathy -- did the guest have a camera? I assume so in the context of this thread.) I try and hope that I've always been out of the way of pros for shots like that.
At the same time, *the kiss* is of course what everyone cranes their necks (and stands up!) to see, with or without a camera in front of them. It's the "money shot", and if I were a pro, I'd make sure I'd staked out a spot that was fairly clear of anyone (watch it Uncle Bill!) who might stand up in front of me.
I know I don't have the fortitude to be a pro. The thought of somebody entrusting me to *not* miss those moments freaks me out, even if I did have a 5DMII or 50D.
So kudos to all your pros. I'll try to stay out of your way. Please just let me bring my camera to the wedding?
I've also never been to a wedding where the hired shooter has hung around even until the speeches or dinner started. That's usually when I'm just getting started, and every bride and groom I've known has been most thankful for the photos I've given them that they otherwise wouldn't have had. Let alone the photos of the guests getting the party started while the bride and groom are off getting their formals taken.
Like these from a recent wedding, only a handful in that gallery would be similar to what the pro got.
http://www.ogle.co.nz/gallery/7706958_H779s
replies above
nice pics btw................
Part of the reason I politely turn down requests to shoot friends weddings, I tell them I'll come with a camera and take some lovely pictures, but I don't know how to pose people.
Which is why banning all pro cameras (see how I tie this back into the start of the thread) is just crazy, isn't this why you have an assistant, wedding planner, best man, bridemaid etc. to manage the crowd into doing what they are supposed to and to make sure the day runs smoothly?
As you've shown, there are some magic moments that happen later in the day. My job, as a wedding photographer, is to capture the moments that describe the day so they can be charished later.
My Photos
Thoughts on photographing a wedding, How to post a picture, AF Microadjustments?, Light Scoop
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I didn't include that I would walk out if there others with pro gear, but I did add that if the uncle xxxs were being overly aggressive/rude with the shots enough for me to say no more I would walk out.
www.tednghiem.com
Attended a good friend's wedding one year ago where the hired photographer was/is a 'top 10 in America' caliber guy. I brought along my humble Canon XT with a Sigma 30mm mated to it. This was mostly because my wife was unable to attend and I figured that, instead of dancing, I could shoot a few frames...
The pro turned to me early on as I was part of an early private session and just told me to stay out of his way - no problem I replied. Went about shooting from the side for a few frames and later hung out with the groom's family a bit and grabbed some candids. I think I took one shot from my seat during the actual ceremony.
Now, during the cocktail hour, the groom came down to grab me and informed me that neither the pro nor his assistant had shown any interest in candid shots - I'm not sure what the conversation actually sounded like. So I went up and took shots of the bride, groom and the bridesmaids taking a break, getting ready for the reception, etc. Shots that would NOT have been taken had I not brought my camera.
Back at the reception, I shot a few more from afar during the speeches and, later, some more candids when the bride or groom left the main hall for a few moments. It was near the end of the wedding (and not that late) and I realized the pro had left before the bouquet had been tossed! I grabbed another friend of the groom who had brought his dSLR and pointed him to one side of the room and I grabbed the other. The two of us provided the only coverage there was for this part of the night. Again I don't know what transpired to have caused the Pro to leave early...
Two weeks later, I sent the bride and groom my shots put together as a Blurb book as my wedding present. I hadn't anticipated doing this beforehand but I had ended up taking almost all of the PJ/candid shots they had and felt they deserved to have those in a tangible book.
I don't expect that this situation will ever happen again but it goes to show that sometimes the guest with the camera can actually provide something the Pro does not and maybe even 'save the day' (or at least one aspect of it).
E
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Guests crowding you or getting in your way would be a major deal. But in the world of digital, even another flash going off and hurting a shot is not life ending, just snap another.
This seems to be a bit of a hold over from film days where the number of shots were much fewer simply because of film costs and lack of immediate feedback.
www.tednghiem.com
It sounds like they did not hire the right pro for the shots they wanted - of course you don't klnow that they didn't ask for all posed and traditional shots either. And maybe the timeline went beyond the contracted time. For example, maybe they only booked 4 or 6 hours of coverage. I'd never leave without checking if they wanted an extension of time, but never without permission and I'd actually ask them to step up those parts they want covered before I left if they hadn't occurred yet.
Flash Frozen Photography, Inc.
http://flashfrozenphotography.com
One advantage of this approach is that people remember you and that might earn you additional work later on.