Team CD Sales - How do you use them for marketing

Mike J · May 3, 2009

My daughter's softball team plays every other team twice this season. For one of the opposing teams, I offered to bundle a CD of all of the photos from both games and give one copy to each parent.

For these of you that do sell CDs, what marketing material do you also put on the CD? I want to make sure they are aware of and entice them to buy some of the specialty items (mag covers, trading cards, posters) I also provide. I could just dump all of the photos to the disk and include samples throughout. I could make a special slide show to highlight these products. I would a

Also, how do you organize the photos on the CD? Talking about ~200 photos here that I want to make easy to browse though.

Has anyone do something like this? What has worked?

Rocketman766 · May 3, 2009

Another great thread that I will be checking on to get more ideas....

I actually just sold my first photo CD, well, I haven't delivered it yet, but I am planning to put a few business cards and a mini-flyer in the case with the cd. I looked at some of the many photo cds that my wife had purchased in the past to get ideas, and not a single one had anything other than just the photos! The cd I sold was of ONE team's performance, and only had 46 photos on it. I just placed the photos on the cd so they could open the disc and view all photos without having to open seperate folders.

One of my main concerns from selling photo cds is that once the parent has the cd, they will not need me to provide them with the magazine cover, sports card, etc. I am counting on the parent NOT having photoshop or the time/knowledge of how to put a quality product together so they will keep coming back. Thoughts on that?

I am thinking about giving the coaches a photo DVD with every performance, from every team as a keepsake (personal use license) as this was the first year of the new gym.

tdinardo · May 4, 2009

Once you release a CD of highrez images, you have lost control over those images and you should expect no further income from them. Expect that your copyright will be ignored and the images will be freely shared between parents unless you've charged a high enough price that the parent you've sold to wouldn't want to give them away. If you chose to go this route, I would only offer the cd's as a group purchase made through the team's coach with pricing based on number of units. You might offer the coach a free CD if he can get you "X" orders where "X" covers your COB+profit. You should still expect that some of the purchasers will get together to "share" the cost of the CD. Selling one off's is a sure way to lose money.

$0.02

zack75144 · May 4, 2009

I offer CD's to single players for $65 a season. I don't expect them to come back to me to buy prints or any other merchandise after that. Like stated before they have everything they need with the originals so why pay your marked up rates for things like cups and mouse pads?

I would not offer a team CD unless the price was quite high.

Mike J · May 5, 2009

I appreciate everyone's input on this but my intent was not to get into a discussion on the merits of offering CDs/etc. I know there are a wide variety of opinions on this because there are a bazzillion different business models out there.

zack75144 wrote:

I offer CD's to single players for $65 a season. I don't expect them to come back to me to buy prints or any other merchandise after that. Like stated before they have everything they need with the originals so why pay your marked up rates for things like cups and mouse pads?

You're absolutely right - I would not expect them to come back to me for anything they could get through the local Costco or Walmart but am hoping (maybe naively) that they will come back for things that are harder to get - personalized mag covers/trading cards/posters. How can I use a delivered CD to accomplish that?

The reality is that these type of products are all things that anyone with a tiny bit of photoshop knowledge (or access to easydigitals.com) could create. My hope is that the majority won't fall into this camp.

In the end, I could be way off base here but that CD delivered to a client seems like a perfect opportunity to market one's business. The end result may not be an order for a speciality product but a contract services for the next season or maybe a contract for a sibling's team.

Some specific questions:

What labeling do you do for your CDs?
Do you make a slideshow of the files? Some sort of album that is easy to navigate through the photos? I can see make a custom webpage in LR and putting this on the CD?
How do you showcase your services and/or other products on the CD? How do you point people who have the CD back to your website?

Here are some other things I'm doing (keep in mind that I would classify myself as a part-time photog who is into cheap marketing):

I made a set of 12 trading cards for my daughter. She is going to "sign" them and give one to each of her teammates. This costs me $10 but I'm hoping to create demand for the trading cards driven for the 8-year olds. I want to create the desire for them to trade these cards with each other - collect one of every teammate - that would be 11 orders for trading cards. That won't happen but...
I'm going to make a team poster for the coach as an end of the season gift. Why? It is a nice thing to do for an individual who has devoted a lot of time to my daugher but it will again showcase my work - planting seeds for next season, for sibling's teams, and for other sports.

So...circling back to my original question... for those that do offer CDs, how do you use them to market your other products and/or your business in general?

b08rsa · May 5, 2009

Mike J.

Do what you feel is right, and what makes you feel good about what you have done. All the money in the world can not buy you happieness, but it's nice to put a smile on a kid's face, when they see photo's of them in action.
In my perspective, yes I sell photo's, and I also give photo's to my daughters soccer team parent's as well. I figure if I give a few, they will buy a few. I am not out to make a million of Photography. I enjoy it as a hobby. I to have a full time job. This is my .02 cents

Ron A.

tdinardo · May 5, 2009

b08rsa wrote:

Mike J.

Do what you feel is right, and what makes you feel good about what you have done. All the money in the world can not buy you happieness, but it's nice to put a smile on a kid's face, when they see photo's of them in action.
In my perspective, yes I sell photo's, and I also give photo's to my daughters soccer team parent's as well. I figure if I give a few, they will buy a few. I am not out to make a million of Photography. I enjoy it as a hobby. I to have a full time job. This is my .02 cents

Ron A.

That's flawed advice.

If one is doing this as a business venture, as some on this thread are, then "doing what makes you feel good" is not the right choice. This is a little outside the scope of the original posted question, but I feel a detailed response is in order given some of these comments.

When you operate as a business for profit, your goal should be to do things in a professional manner. That means pricing offerings in a way that allow you to cover your cost of doing business and earning a profit. Anything short of that is a good way to ensure that you are out of business.

Can you afford to eat the cost all your equipment because you chose to shoot an event and sell CD's or prints and later have that equipment stolen from your car or burned up in a house fire? The insurance investigator will deny your homeowners claim because they determine you are operating a photography business. You think it won't happen? Think again. When they see your smugmug pro account with prices above cost, it will happen, and they'll not cover any of your photography equipment, and chances are you'll be out for your computer equipment and software as well. How about the lawsuit potential for shooting a game where a freak accident happens and you get sued. You have that wonderful $2M umbrella liability policy, so you have nothing to worry about right? Wrong. You're completely uncovered and you get to pay for an attorney to defend the suit (irrespective of whether you're liable or not). You need a separate insurance policy then don't you? That's going to set you back $600-1200 or more per year. Feels good to give away $1200 right?

Shooting events like these means burning up shutters, adding equipment to your bag, adding software to improve your post processing, sending equipment in for service, etc. All of that costs money, as does your SM account. If you don't factor all of that, and more, into your prices, then you are doing yourself and the rest of the industry a disservice by devaluing photography.

You may not be out to make a million from your photography, and that's fine. Photography as a hobby is a great thing. If you're doing it as a hobby, that's wonderful. I mean that sincerely. However, when you cross the line into selling for profit, you are no longer in hobby territory, you are running a business. Those that are operating a business for profit should not treat it as a hobby. There is much do lose when you do that. They should make informed business decisions so they can reasonably understand what the outcome of those decision will be. Giving away work product for less than it costs to produce it means you will soon be out of business.

tdinardo · May 5, 2009

Mike J wrote:

... but am hoping (maybe naively) that they will come back for things that are harder to get - personalized mag covers/trading cards/posters. How can I use a delivered CD to accomplish that?

In my experience, it's hard to get folks to come back for anything with respect to the images on the CD once they've bought the CD. You'd be better off offering those additional products as part of a package with the CD rather than after the fact.

Once coupons are available (or if you use a Paypal integration), you might increase the chances by including a coupon with the CD for additional purchases for that specific event.

Mike J wrote:

My hope is that the majority won't fall into this camp.

Unfortunately, I've found that the majority do fall into this camp.

Mike J wrote:

What labeling do you do for your CDs?

Do you make a slideshow of the files? Some sort of album that is easy to navigate through the photos? I can see make a custom webpage in LR and putting this on the CD?

How do you showcase your services and/or other products on the CD? How do you point people who have the CD back to your website?

I've tried lightscribe disks but don't care for the presentation. I find that a well designed inkjet printed disk looks the best.

I don't do anything beyond putting the images on the disk. I usually place a web optimized version and a print optimized version on the disk in separate directories with a PDF that explains which version the purchaser should use for a specific purpose together with the copyright notice. All the files are captioned, keyworded, and contain the copyright limitations for the version. The PDF also explains the DMCA requirements for maintaining the metadata to minimize to chance of orphaned works, improper reuse by third parties, etc.

You can always drop an html file in the root of the CD that points back to your website.

I really like your trading card idea. I think offering that with the CD would be a lot of fun for the kids. It's also a great way to add some additional revenue while providing a nice value add for the customer.

johng · May 5, 2009

Me experience goes along with Tom's - when people buy images they don't pay for other things after the fact. The simple solution is to price your individual CD based upon what you typically make in print sales from a given athlete. If you normally make $80 off an athlete - well, you've got your price for the CD. And, you've got extra profit built in - no cut for smugmug, no printing cost, etc. But if you're going to sell CDs of images of the whole team make sure you price that accordingly too. What do you average on an event? That's your price for the CD. For sports event photography I haven't gotten a whole lot of re-order business. It's rare that a customer comes back and buys more. That may be just me. But all I'm saying is - set your prices realistically. Don't artificially inflate them based upon the possibility of future sales if your experience doesn't tell you you're going to get those sales.

Kagan · May 6, 2009

I do several baseball/softball teams a year. Included in that is my 3 sons teams. For those teams at the end of the season I always GIVE the parents a slideshow set to music of all the action throughout the year(Proshow)I have tons of pics since I am there anyway. I give every parent this the day I deliver the picture packages. Whether they bought anything or not. The parents are thrilled and even better, they dont have (Easy) access to the photos. I have sold quite a few from that dvd by posting my information at the end and how to order. Now granted they always end up calling me and ordering everything instead of going through my site but it still works. As for T&I photos....If it isnt on the order form...I dont sell it. Parents buy that day and that day alone on those photos. Action photos anytime but the sportrait stuff seems to be a one day only affair. Hope that helps.

Mike J · May 6, 2009

tdinardo wrote:

That's flawed advice.

If one is doing this as a business venture, as some on this thread are, then "doing what makes you feel good" is not the right choice. This is a little outside the scope of the original posted question, but I feel a detailed response is in order given some of these comments.

When you operate as a business for profit, your goal should be to do things in a professional manner. That means pricing offerings in a way that allow you to cover your cost of doing business and earning a profit. Anything short of that is a good way to ensure that you are out of business.

Can you afford to eat the cost all your equipment because you chose to shoot an event and sell CD's or prints and later have that equipment stolen from your car or burned up in a house fire? The insurance investigator will deny your homeowners claim because they determine you are operating a photography business. You think it won't happen? Think again. When they see your smugmug pro account with prices above cost, it will happen, and they'll not cover any of your photography equipment, and chances are you'll be out for your computer equipment and software as well. How about the lawsuit potential for shooting a game where a freak accident happens and you get sued. You have that wonderful $2M umbrella liability policy, so you have nothing to worry about right? Wrong. You're completely uncovered and you get to pay for an attorney to defend the suit (irrespective of whether you're liable or not). You need a separate insurance policy then don't you? That's going to set you back $600-1200 or more per year. Feels good to give away $1200 right?

Shooting events like these means burning up shutters, adding equipment to your bag, adding software to improve your post processing, sending equipment in for service, etc. All of that costs money, as does your SM account. If you don't factor all of that, and more, into your prices, then you are doing yourself and the rest of the industry a disservice by devaluing photography.

You may not be out to make a million from your photography, and that's fine. Photography as a hobby is a great thing. If you're doing it as a hobby, that's wonderful. I mean that sincerely. However, when you cross the line into selling for profit, you are no longer in hobby territory, you are running a business. Those that are operating a business for profit should not treat it as a hobby. There is much do lose when you do that. They should make informed business decisions so they can reasonably understand what the outcome of those decision will be. Giving away work product for less than it costs to produce it means you will soon be out of business.

Tom - all excellent points. I'm double-checking my insurance coverage.

Mike J · May 6, 2009

johng wrote:

Me experience goes along with Tom's - when people buy images they don't pay for other things after the fact. The simple solution is to price your individual CD based upon what you typically make in print sales from a given athlete. If you normally make $80 off an athlete - well, you've got your price for the CD. And, you've got extra profit built in - no cut for smugmug, no printing cost, etc. But if you're going to sell CDs of images of the whole team make sure you price that accordingly too. What do you average on an event? That's your price for the CD. For sports event photography I haven't gotten a whole lot of re-order business. It's rare that a customer comes back and buys more. That may be just me. But all I'm saying is - set your prices realistically. Don't artificially inflate them based upon the possibility of future sales if your experience doesn't tell you you're going to get those sales.

I'll let you know if I get any bites for specialty items after delivering the CD. I'll be delivering this later this week. I'll report back as to what I end up doing as far structure on the disk.

b08rsa · May 7, 2009

tdinardo wrote:

That's flawed advice.

If one is doing this as a business venture, as some on this thread are, then "doing what makes you feel good" is not the right choice. This is a little outside the scope of the original posted question, but I feel a detailed response is in order given some of these comments.

When you operate as a business for profit, your goal should be to do things in a professional manner. That means pricing offerings in a way that allow you to cover your cost of doing business and earning a profit. Anything short of that is a good way to ensure that you are out of business.

Can you afford to eat the cost all your equipment because you chose to shoot an event and sell CD's or prints and later have that equipment stolen from your car or burned up in a house fire? The insurance investigator will deny your homeowners claim because they determine you are operating a photography business. You think it won't happen? Think again. When they see your smugmug pro account with prices above cost, it will happen, and they'll not cover any of your photography equipment, and chances are you'll be out for your computer equipment and software as well. How about the lawsuit potential for shooting a game where a freak accident happens and you get sued. You have that wonderful $2M umbrella liability policy, so you have nothing to worry about right? Wrong. You're completely uncovered and you get to pay for an attorney to defend the suit (irrespective of whether you're liable or not). You need a separate insurance policy then don't you? That's going to set you back $600-1200 or more per year. Feels good to give away $1200 right?

Shooting events like these means burning up shutters, adding equipment to your bag, adding software to improve your post processing, sending equipment in for service, etc. All of that costs money, as does your SM account. If you don't factor all of that, and more, into your prices, then you are doing yourself and the rest of the industry a disservice by devaluing photography.

You may not be out to make a million from your photography, and that's fine. Photography as a hobby is a great thing. If you're doing it as a hobby, that's wonderful. I mean that sincerely. However, when you cross the line into selling for profit, you are no longer in hobby territory, you are running a business. Those that are operating a business for profit should not treat it as a hobby. There is much do lose when you do that. They should make informed business decisions so they can reasonably understand what the outcome of those decision will be. Giving away work product for less than it costs to produce it means you will soon be out of business.

While some may do this strictly for business, I can some what agree with your posting. I admit it, I do it as a hobby. If I make extra coin, I am fine with that. If I can not afford to pay cash for a piece of equipment, I do not need it. All I'm saying is that in business, it is a "Give and Take". Therefore, I would not say it is flawed adivice.

Shark · May 7, 2009

tdinardo wrote:

How about the lawsuit potential for shooting a game where a freak accident happens and you get sued.

What type of freak accident could happen where the photographer might get sued?

Shark

Kenny · May 7, 2009

Shark wrote:

What type of freak accident could happen where the photographer might get sued?

Shark

Walking through the pit area of an international motorsport event, trip and knock over a million dollar motorcycle... saw it *almost* happen last year... walking through pit lane and have a motorcycle almost run you down because you're not looking... again, saw it *almost* happen last year.

There are many more accidents that could happen while photographing sporting events... trip and fall onto star batter, braking his/her arm, knocking over a $15000.00 lens and smashing it and have the owner sue you... lot's of stuff can happen - it usually doesn't, but could quite conceivably happen in the blink of an eye.

Always best to be prepared. If you intend shooting sport, then my suggestion would be to make sure you can cover all contingencies

Cheers,
Ken

tdinardo · May 7, 2009

Shark wrote:

What type of freak accident could happen where the photographer might get sued?

Shark

In the first three months of this year I've personally watched "professional" photographers do the following:

Climb ski courses without crampons and proceed to take $15,000 of equipment 60 yards down course, through crash barriers, and into a safety zone. They've taken people out and destroyed equipment. Two fools did this at the same event.
Leave a long lens in a walkway at a crowded venue resulting in a trip and fall.
Not injury related but insurance related for sure - Leave a $2,000 lens in a photog pit at an event. Luckily for that photog, I knew who's it was and was able to track them down and get it back to them.

There are many scenarios where unlikely things can and do happen when shooting. Proceed with for-pay activites without a professional policy at your own risk.

mercphoto · May 7, 2009

Mike J wrote:

I'll let you know if I get any bites for specialty items after delivering the CD. I'll be delivering this later this week. I'll report back as to what I end up doing as far structure on the disk.

I'll agree that speciality items are something to go after. Parents can and will capture photos. Your photos either need to be stellar, or you need to offer something they cannot. Brush up on graphic design and learn to make collages, or find an outfit that you can outsource that to. Season photo books. Etc. Those are value-add to a photo, and value-add is usually a good thing.

As far as making people aware of your value add products, maybe one of the images on the CD-ROM is a sampling of value-add work. Or include a flier with the CD-ROM.

I've just started (finally!) marketing myself as a automotive photographer for car owners and value-add items are something I'm definitely going to try to push. Coffee table books, car show boards, collages, prints-on-metal for the garage, etc. And I'm trying to think over the same things you are -- how to market those value-add items.

tdinardo · May 7, 2009

Mike J wrote:

Tom - all excellent points. I'm double-checking my insurance coverage.

Thanks Mike. Sorry this thread went so far off topic. Probably not where you intended it to go. If folks want to continue the insurance aspect of the thread, maybe we ought to start a new thread with a proper title....

tdinardo · May 7, 2009

mercphoto wrote:

I'll agree that speciality items are something to go after. Parents can and will capture photos. Your photos either need to be stellar, or you need to offer something they cannot. Brush up on graphic design and learn to make collages, or find an outfit that you can outsource that to. Season photo books. Etc. Those are value-add to a photo, and value-add is usually a good thing.

As far as making people aware of your value add products, maybe one of the images on the CD-ROM is a sampling of value-add work. Or include a flier with the CD-ROM.

I've just started (finally!) marketing myself as a automotive photographer for car owners and value-add items are something I'm definitely going to try to push. Coffee table books, car show boards, collages, prints-on-metal for the garage, etc. And I'm trying to think over the same things you are -- how to market those value-add items.

Some good ideas there Bill. Doing books/calendars for car clubs seems like it could be a pretty popular idea. If you have access to a few models, I bet you'd probably have luck with testful pin-up type calenders too (remember to get those model and property releases).

Mike J · May 7, 2009

mercphoto wrote:

I'll agree that speciality items are something to go after. Parents can and will capture photos. Your photos either need to be stellar, or you need to offer something they cannot. Brush up on graphic design and learn to make collages, or find an outfit that you can outsource that to. Season photo books. Etc. Those are value-add to a photo, and value-add is usually a good thing.

As far as making people aware of your value add products, maybe one of the images on the CD-ROM is a sampling of value-add work. Or include a flier with the CD-ROM.

I've just started (finally!) marketing myself as a automotive photographer for car owners and value-add items are something I'm definitely going to try to push. Coffee table books, car show boards, collages, prints-on-metal for the garage, etc. And I'm trying to think over the same things you are -- how to market those value-add items.

It is the simple things that are so easy to overlook... I had planned to put samples of the items on the disk but never occured to to include a flyer about this items (or maybe even printed samples). Thanks!

I agree value add is the way to go but even having the right equipment can make photos stand out from what the P&S parent crowd can do. Huge difference in DOF that can be achieved. Even many parents with DSLRs are not willing to pony up the $$'s needed for the fast lens.

Mike J · May 7, 2009

tdinardo wrote:

Thanks Mike. Sorry this thread went so far off topic. Probably not where you intended it to go. If folks want to continue the insurance aspect of the thread, maybe we ought to start a new thread with a proper title....

No problem Tom. Can't complain about a free education. After your post, I did check a number of other threads on Dgrin regarding insurance. There is a lot of good information about companies that can be gleaned. One that I saw mentioned often here (and in other forums) is: http://www.packagechoice.com/details.jsp

dixonjg30 · May 8, 2009

I'll bite on the original question. Can't say I do any/all of this but, for the CD, if I were doing one, I would:

1) Go to a site like http://www.discmakers.com or something similar and get a bunch of cds/dvds custom printed. You can get case, etc made, all sorts of packages. . .google is your friend for finding some place to do this, just search for "custom bulk cds"

2) Edit the autorun.ini file that goes on a cd so that when the cd was inserted in their computer it would automatically open up a webpage (stored on the cd, not internet) that would outline some of your products (the collages, books, etc) and any other service you offer. Link to your smugmug account, etc also. Check out this page for more info on how to do this: http://www.cryer.co.uk/brian/windows/howtocacdtwar.htm

Put something on that page that says "take me to my pictures, etc" to exit out of it and be able to see the actual pics, etc.

3) I'd also do what others said about putting a business card, etc in it too. You could even consider using a DVD case (you can get the thin ones pretty cheap) that way you could print a cover and insert with info on it as well.

Just my 2 cents, hope this helps.

-jd

Mike J · May 13, 2009

Okay...I wanted to close the loop and let everyone know what I ended up doing. I appreciate all of the input. Very helpful.

It turns out that because of the number of files, I needed to use a DVD. I created an autorun menu that plays when the disk is inserted. The background is one of the photos contained on the disk. The menu had the following options:

View a slideshow created with LR. Of course, this had my name all over it.
A link to the directory containing the JPEGs. Just opens explorer and shows the files
A link to my website
A slideshow of trading card and mag cover samples

If anyone has a CD autorun menu program that they really like, please let me know.

Team CD Sales - How do you use them for marketing

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