580EXII 3 quick reality checks

NeilL

1. Can it be triggered off camera by onboard flash (40D)?

2. If tethered to camera, is the cable specific to camera-580EXII, or is generic available?

3. What 3rd flash would you recommend : onboard flash + 580EXII + ?

Oh, and there's a fourth question

4. Where can I find something understandable to learn how to use the 580EXII? Canon's manual is a very convincing impersonation of rocket science!:huh

Thanks a lot for anything you can tell me about any of this!:thumb

Neil

ziggy53

NeilL wrote:

1. Can it be triggered off camera by onboard flash (40D)?

2. If tethered to camera, is the cable specific to camera-580EXII, or is generic available?

3. What 3rd flash would you recommend : onboard flash + 580EXII + ?

Oh, and there's a fourth question

4. Where can I find something understandable to learn how to use the 580EXII? Canon's manual is a very convincing impersonation of rocket science!

Thanks a lot for anything you can tell me about any of this!

Neil

Neil,

1. I don't believe that the Canon 40D can reliably remote trigger the Canon 580EX II flash unless you use another compatible flash attached to the camera and used in a Master/Slave relationship. In the Canon lineup the Master can be either a 580EXII/580EX/550EX flash or an ST-E2 Wireless Transmitter. I believe that the Sigma EF-5xx DG Super flashes can also act as either Master or Slave in conjunction with a compatible flash, although the channels are "named" slightly differently but are functionally identical.

2. I use 1 genuine Canon off-camera cord and 3 generic off-camera cords. All work well for me. I am careful not to try to stretch the cords too much as the strain relief of all of them is not good. You do have to purchase a Canon compatible cord as there are other manufacturer cords that are not compatible.

Typically you use an off-camera cord with a flash bracket, which generally allows further distance from the lens to the flash head and creates more natural looking shadows, as well as the ability to (in many cases) rotate the flash bracket and flash into different configurations to keep the flash above the lens as in a "portrait/vertical" camera orientation.

3. I use 2 Sigma EF-500 DG Super flashes and I am very pleased with their performance. The latest model is the EF-530 DG Super flash and it is slightly more powerful. These flashes contain most of the functionality of the Canon 580EX series flashes at a very reasonable cost. Power output is a bit less and construction is lower quality (but still meets my needs) and there are no external power options as the 580EX flashes have.

I use my Sigma flashes regularly in a bang-bang-bang heavy drain scenario and they are proving themselves to be reliable performers.

4. The 580EX II User Manual does assume that you have some prior knowlege of similar flashes. If you have no prior knowlege you need to find someone to learn from or simply use the flash, referring to the manual as needed to learn new features and controls as needed. You can use the flash with very little knowlege but using it proficiently and to the greatest advantage will take time. It is not a simple device so don't expect everything to be simply explained or simple to understand.

I believ that the Canon 40D camera can also control some of the advanced flash functions from the camera itself, so you might check into that approach to see it it makes more sense.

As usual, you can count on the Digital Grin members to help whenever they can help.

Reading reviews and tutorials can also help:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-580EX-II-Speedlite-Flash-Review.aspx
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/flashwork/index.html

divamum

Neil - get thee to the Technique forum here and read the Canon flash links in the stickies. They're a bit dense to plough through, but very - VERY - informative (much more so than Canon's own information base).

Btw, I have an ste2 and love it - I got mine from Amazon in some kind of a supersale for $165 just after Christmas. Point here being... hunt around - they sometimes turn up cheap, and I'm willing to bet that as Radio Poppers and the new Pocket Wizards with ettl capabilities start to hit the market, used ste2's are going to start appearing too....

JohnBiggs

I'm not sure what you want to do with your photography, but you can save yourself loads of money and headaches if you start reading the strobist site.

He uses cheap flashes and radio triggers. Flashes with just as much output as the 580EXII can be had for 1/3 the cost.

The radio slaves I recommend are Paul C. Buff's Cyber Syncs sold on the alien bees site. They are cheaper than Pocket Wizards, but are more than enough for 90% of us.

Some of us learn the hard way and buy 3 580EX flashes to discover TTL with three heads isn't any easier than just using manual settings and radio slaves.

NeilL

ziggy53 wrote:

Neil,

1. I don't believe that the Canon 40D can reliably remote trigger the Canon 580EX II flash unless you use another compatible flash attached to the camera and used in a Master/Slave relationship. In the Canon lineup the Master can be either a 580EXII/580EX/550EX flash or an ST-E2 Wireless Transmitter. I believe that the Sigma EF-5xx DG Super flashes can also act as either Master or Slave in conjunction with a compatible flash, although the channels are "named" slightly differently but are functionally identical.

2. I use 1 genuine Canon off-camera cord and 3 generic off-camera cords. All work well for me. I am careful not to try to stretch the cords too much as the strain relief of all of them is not good. You do have to purchase a Canon compatible cord as there are other manufacturer cords that are not compatible.

Typically you use an off-camera cord with a flash bracket, which generally allows further distance from the lens to the flash head and creates more natural looking shadows, as well as the ability to (in many cases) rotate the flash bracket and flash into different configurations to keep the flash above the lens as in a "portrait/vertical" camera orientation.

3. I use 2 Sigma EF-500 DG Super flashes and I am very pleased with their performance. The latest model is the EF-530 DG Super flash and it is slightly more powerful. These flashes contain most of the functionality of the Canon 580EX series flashes at a very reasonable cost. Power output is a bit less and construction is lower quality (but still meets my needs) and there are no external power options as the 580EX flashes have.

I use my Sigma flashes regularly in a bang-bang-bang heavy drain scenario and they are proving themselves to be reliable performers.

4. The 580EX II User Manual does assume that you have some prior knowlege of similar flashes. If you have no prior knowlege you need to find someone to learn from or simply use the flash, referring to the manual as needed to learn new features and controls as needed. You can use the flash with very little knowlege but using it proficiently and to the greatest advantage will take time. It is not a simple device so don't expect everything to be simply explained or simple to understand.

I believ that the Canon 40D camera can also control some of the advanced flash functions from the camera itself, so you might check into that approach to see it it makes more sense.

As usual, you can count on the Digital Grin members to help whenever they can help.

Reading reviews and tutorials can also help:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-580EX-II-Speedlite-Flash-Review.aspx
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/flashwork/index.html

Thanks very much for this info, Ziggy. Very helpful, and getting the benefit of your experience is a bonus!

I've taken note of your opinion about the Sigma flashes and I'll investigate them.

I hate to see the onboard flash wasted, but as you say, Canon unlike Nikon doesn't include it in a configuration, unless, I guess, you use transmitters (if they don't need the hotshoe?).

Thanks for the links. Yes, the 580EXII is set by the camera (though whether my 580 is configured correctly for that I don't know - I can't read the hieroglyphs on its display!!!!).

Best wishes. Neil

NeilL

divamum wrote:

Neil - get thee to the Technique forum here and read the Canon flash links in the stickies. They're a bit dense to plough through, but very - VERY - informative (much more so than Canon's own information base).

Will do!!

Nice if your predictions turn out correct, but you know you're encouraging competition for those unique bargains when they do show up!!:D

Thanks a lot for your comment!

Richard

Neil,

Just in case you somehow have missed this, there is a very long but highly informative explanation of the Canon EOS flash system here.

NeilL

JohnBiggs wrote:

I'm not sure what you want to do with your photography, but you can save yourself loads of money and headaches if you start reading the strobist site.

He uses cheap flashes and radio triggers. Flashes with just as much output as the 580EXII can be had for 1/3 the cost.

The radio slaves I recommend are Paul C. Buff's Cyber Syncs sold on the alien bees site. They are cheaper than Pocket Wizards, but are more than enough for 90% of us.

Some of us learn the hard way and buy 3 580EX flashes to discover TTL with three heads isn't any easier than just using manual settings and radio slaves.

Thanks very much, John, for the info and recommendations!

In fact, I have the full CD set from The Strobist. I'll gradually work my way through his tutorials.

Don't worry about having more, better and best gear, you have to be a little crazy about such things, though it costs, of course! But maybe cost isn't always the bottom line?

NeilL

Richard wrote:

Neil,

Just in case you somehow have missed this, there is a very long but highly informative explanation of the Canon EOS flash system here.

fantastico, R, graciaslust

NeilL

A guide to multiple flash configuration. This seems to me to be clear and accurate. Easily followed step by step. And corrects some infelicities in Canon's documentation, and even technology.

http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/MultiCanon/

dlplumer

NeilL wrote:

A guide to multiple flash configuration. This seems to me to be clear and accurate. Easily followed step by step. And corrects some infelicities in Canon's documentation, and even technology.

http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/MultiCanon/

Excellent resource. Thanks Neil

pathfinder

NeilL wrote:

A guide to multiple flash configuration. This seems to me to be clear and accurate. Easily followed step by step. And corrects some infelicities in Canon's documentation, and even technology.

http://super.nova.org/DPR/Canon/MultiCanon/

That is a very good link.

I agree with you that Canon's included documentation with their EOS system flashes leaves a great deal to be desired. Part of the problem, just like with a new DSLR, is that they are capable of a great number of different modes and tasks that can be confusing to newbie users.

As for triggering a 580exII with your built in flash on your 40D, you should be able to find an optical trigger - peanut slave- that ignores the first light pulse and triggers the 580ex II in its Manual mode. You will lose ETTL doing this. The easiest way is to add a 2nd 580ex II ( or a used 550ex or a 580ex ) as a master on your camera as described in the link you posted above.