On Request

mercphoto · June 10, 2005

I've been on this forum before saying that 20 cent downloads from stock agencies like Shutter Stock was a ridiculous use of any talented photographer's time, and I still feel very strongly about that. Was wondering what anyone's thoughts on OnRequestImages.com was. Basically, a client requests a type of photo. The agency farms out the request to 3-5 photographers, and gets back images to the client in 3 days. The client chooses one and goes with it. They are calling this "competitive stock".

From what I understand:
1) Its a 50/50 split with the agency
2) The money is more in line with traditional stock

The pros I've heard:
1) You know what you are shooting is a needed photograph, unlike traditional stock where you have no idea.
2) The pay is reasonable

The cons I've heard:
1) The 50/50 fee is outrageous for what is, basically, a photographer's agent.
2) Your "agent" is also farming out the same job to as many as four other competitors at the same time
3) That this is nothing more than assignment photography with a twist that is good for the customer and bad for the photographer.

Thoughts?

Nikolai · June 10, 2005

Bill, question..
I presume the fee is more than 20c per image? Otherwise after you split it 50/50.. You know.. :-)
So, what do you get in case you're a winner?

mercphoto · June 10, 2005

Nikolai wrote:

I presume the fee is more than 20c per image? Otherwise after you split it 50/50.. You know.. :-)
So, what do you get in case you're a winner?

Not entirely sure. From their site http://www.onrequestimages.com/www/price_list.aspx:

Like all rights-managed photo agencies, at OnRequest Images, the price you pay for images is based solely on how you decide to use the image in your final project. We follow industry-standard guidelines for pricing your use of all images licensed from us—even though they're custom-shot to your specifications!

An example on their page shows prices for a shot from $1100 to $2750 based on use.

Nikolai · June 10, 2005

Nice...

mercphoto wrote:

Not entirely sure. From their site http://www.onrequestimages.com/www/price_list.aspx:
An example on their page shows prices for a shot from $1100 to $2750 based on use.

I would go out on a weekend to get $1500 shot, even if it gets me only $750:-)

ginger_55 · June 10, 2005

Right now, I pay to shoot!

ginger

I just don't know if I have time............it is always the time.
Could switch priorities, after the bird children are grown.

thanks for info.......

50.00 last yr really helped on renewal of my "pro" site.

Shay Stephens · June 10, 2005

So you basically have a 20-30% chance of getting a paycheck for the week, oh and the check will be 50% of normal too...

What's not to love, and legally it's not slavery either, so it keeps those pesky police at bay. But I am having a hard time deciding on whether to do this or go overseas to make tennis shoes

mercphoto · June 10, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

So you basically have a 20-30% chance of getting a paycheck for the week, oh and the check will be 50% of normal too...

What's not to love, and legally it's not slavery either, so it keeps those pesky police at bay. But I am having a hard time deciding on whether to do this or go overseas to make tennis shoes

I partly agree with Nik in that the money wouldn't be bad. And I partly agree with Shay. I think the biggest "con" against this is the 50/50 split is not enough for the photographer. The stock agency is nearly guaranteed themselves a sale by employing the talents of multiple photographers. Seems little risk on their end for 50% of the proceeds.

I do give them credit for being Rights Managed rather than Royalty Free though.

Shay Stephens · June 10, 2005

How many times do you think this scenario would have to play out before a photographer got tired of subsidizing image acquisition for On Request Images?

Customer needs an athletic female model pulling back on a modern bow and arrow aiming it up to the upper right of the image frame. They need a dark gray background with a small central light gradient (light to dark from the center out). A stone wall behind the model. Model needs to be wearing an orange muscle shirt. The lighting on the model needs to be hard and directional to highlight the fitness of the model. The lighting should also highlight the bow and arrow adequately so that it does not get lost in the background.

Now you have 3 to 5 photographers who have to buy a gray background, stone wall setup, modern bow and arrow, orange muscle shirt, and a model. One can only hope that all of that comes out costing less than what the photo will pay, since of course there is no mention of expenses incurred being payed by the customer. This is also assuming the photographers have the lighting already and don't need to go out to buy any equipment to fullfill the assignment.

So the "winner" gets paid, and the losers get to pay their own bill for making their photos. You think you are paying to photograph now, wait till you start doing assignment photography on spec!

In my mind, this is sheer lunacy, and I don't think it will last. If it does, it will descend into low quality assignment photography and the prices will fall even lower. A photographer would be much better off hiring an agent who will send real work to them and charge decent percentages instead of this spec assignment photography game.

Don't think my example is realistic? Check out their site:
http://www.onrequestimages.com/www/WebFramework/Controls/GetImage/ImageLoaderWrapper.aspx?p=140796&u=1520&t=WebOpen&s=2

And then ask yourself how much it would cost you to duplicate this photo. How much of that cost is going to be reimbursed to you? Just how much is this going to cost you? Will you wind up working for free or even worse? I would say, count on it.

mercphoto wrote:

I partly agree with Nik in that the money wouldn't be bad. And I partly agree with Shay. I think the biggest "con" against this is the 50/50 split is not enough for the photographer. The stock agency is nearly guaranteed themselves a sale by employing the talents of multiple photographers. Seems little risk on their end for 50% of the proceeds.

mercphoto · June 10, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

How many times do you think this scenario would have to play out before a photographer got tired of subsidizing image acquisition for On Request Images?

Wow. That's pretty dang convincing Shay.

Shay Stephens · June 10, 2005

If they need something easy and cheap, it most likely exists in stock form already. Assignment photography exists for the hard stuff or very specialized. And that hardly ever is a step outside, shoot a few frames, and rake in the dough type work

Count on production costs, modeling fees, etc to fulfill assignments.

But one may say, oh, I'll just use my family as models...

Don't count on that for more than 10%, art directors have all kinds of different types they need to use. You know how many different types of grandmothers they look for? There is the old rocking chair type, the old I just pulled out this apple pie type, the I just finished a two mile jog type, etc etc

mercphoto wrote:

Wow. That's pretty dang convincing Shay.

Nikolai · June 10, 2005

I applied:-)
Since the application is free and I am in a dire need of a "paid practice" I decided there will be no harm to apply.
Came back from lunch only to find out "thank you, your style does not match our needs" letter in my mailbox.
Thought I would share with you guys:-)

Nikolai · June 10, 2005

Agent question

Shay Stephens wrote:

A photographer would be much better off hiring an agent who will send real work to them and charge decent percentages instead of this spec assignment photography game.

Shay, if you don't mind my asking - where would I find such an agent? As it was with lighting (whcih you helped me a great deal with), I don't even know where to start...

I'm basically interested in some assignments which can be fulfilled outside 8 am - 6 pm hours and on the weekends.. I know my 828, I'm very good with PS and I'm a fast learner..:-)
TIA!

Shay Stephens · June 10, 2005

My suggestion is to be your own agent in the beginning. Most of the good agents are going to be very picky who they represent, simply because they rely on you to make a living. So one typically needs to already be making a living at photography to attract a good agent.

Now, being your own agent is not as strange as it might sound. It gets you out there and networking with people who buy photography. Call people, eat out and bring business cards, talk to anyone and everyone. This will get you a better grasp on what people in your market need, and eventually, what they are willing to pay. It's a great learning experience and confidence booster.

By the time you are ready for an agent, you might not even need one

Nikolai wrote:

Shay, if you don't mind my asking - where would I find such an agent? As it was with lighting (whcih you helped me a great deal with), I don't even know where to start...
I'm basically interested in some assignments which can be fulfilled outside 8 am - 6 pm hours and on the weekends.. I know my 828, I'm very good with PS and I'm a fast learner..:-)
TIA!

mercphoto · June 10, 2005

Shay Stephens wrote:

My suggestion is to be your own agent in the beginning... Now, being your own agent is not as strange as it might sound. It gets you out there and networking with people who buy photography. Call people, eat out and bring business cards, talk to anyone and everyone.

Did you just give me a reason to join the relatively small Chamber of Commerce in my somewhat small but growing rapidly city?

Nikolai · June 10, 2005

Well

Shay Stephens wrote:

My suggestion is to be your own agent in the beginning. Most of the good agents are going to be very picky who they represent, simply because they rely on you to make a living. So one typically needs to already be making a living at photography to attract a good agent.

Now, being your own agent is not as strange as it might sound. It gets you out there and networking with people who buy photography. Call people, eat out and bring business cards, talk to anyone and everyone. This will get you a better grasp on what people in your market need, and eventually, what they are willing to pay. It's a great learning experience and confidence booster.

By the time you are ready for an agent, you might not even need one

To be honest, I was afraid to get this kind of an answer..:-(
Oh hell, I guess I need to get out more:-)

Hey, we're meeting with David at TGIF today! I'll bring my one-light-stand!:-)

Thanks!

Shay Stephens · June 10, 2005

If you are going out, bring some cards with you too. When people ask what you got there, hand them a card while you explain. It's easier than it sounds :-)

Nikolai wrote:

To be honest, I was afraid to get this kind of an answer..:-(
Oh hell, I guess I need to get out more:-)

Hey, we're meeting with David at TGIF today! I'll bring my one-light-stand!:-)

Thanks!

Nikolai · June 10, 2005

Oh, I always have them on me

Shay Stephens wrote:

If you are going out, bring some cards with you too. When people ask what you got there, hand them a card while you explain. It's easier than it sounds :-)

And I have no problem handing them out, too..

However, I'm already pretty much scraping the bottom of my first batch (I ordered 200) and yet it didn't bring me a *single* assignment/sale..

Shay Stephens · June 10, 2005

Don't worry about that. It takes a while to prime the sales pump. Keep feeding it and it will start to turn over. It took me about a year and a half to get momentum going. And now that I have it, I still have to market everyday to keep that pump primed, but now the results are more consistant.

That year an a half were interesting as I did all kinds of different jobs. The experience helped me to discover what I was good at and what I liked doing. The stuff you like and are good at will be the stuff you want to concentrate on. In the beginning you mostly don't know what you want to do and set yourself up to do anything and everything. Once you figure it out though, then start to specialize and target your marketing to your specialty.

Nikolai wrote:

And I have no problem handing them out, too..

However, I'm already pretty much scraping the bottom of my first batch (I ordered 200) and yet it didn't bring me a *single* assignment/sale..

Nikolai · June 10, 2005

OK, thanks!

Shay Stephens wrote:

Don't worry about that. It takes a while to prime the sales pump. Keep feeding it and it will start to turn over. It took me about a year and a half to get momentum going. And now that I have it, I still have to market everyday to keep that pump primed, but now the results are more consistant.

That year an a half were interesting as I did all kinds of different jobs. The experience helped me to discover what I was good at and what I liked doing. The stuff you like and are good at will be the stuff you want to concentrate on. In the beginning you mostly don't know what you want to do and set yourself up to do anything and everything. Once you figure it out though, then start to specialize and target your marketing to your specialty.

I see your point... I will continue to "prime the pump":-) I'm pretty much sure that the market goes dead for the summer, but I'm gonna use this time to prepare better for the next school/sports/wedding season :-)

Cheers!

On Request

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