Event 'official photographer' questions

Snowgirl

On another photog. chat group the following situation is being discussed. I'm just curious about others' thoughts on the subject...

Situation:
Photographer 'A' is the Official Photographer for a sport event (designated by the sport organization), and takes photos of the action, winners etc. - some donated to the sport organization and the rest available for sale to the participants, etc.

Photographer 'B' works for the facility in which the event is being held and is management's Official Photographer. Photos are used for media releases and the facility's website. They are not promoted as being for sale.

Photographer 'C' is a spectator at the event, but takes some photos, and posts them on his website - not promoted, but available for sale.

Issue #1:

Customer approaches Photographer B to purchase one of her pictures. B tells the customer that Photog. A is the official photog. and that the person should check out A's website. Customer says she has done that, doesn't see anything she wants but DOEs want one of B's photos.

Question:

Should B sell the photo to the customer or refuse because A is the official photographer?

Issue#2:
Photographer C is displaying his photos of the event for sale on his website. Should Photographer A approach Photog. C and tell him not to sell his photos? Should Photog. C capitulate?

Blaker

Snowgirl wrote:

Question:

Should B sell the photo to the customer or refuse because A is the official photographer??

Depends on what is in the contract between the venue and the event organizer. If there is nothing contractually prohibiting it, then go ahead and sell the photo.

Issue#2:
Photographer C is displaying his photos of the event for sale on his website. Should Photographer A approach Photog. C and tell him not to sell his photos? Should Photog. C capitulate?[/quote]

If the person was a spectator and there are no signs prohibiting spectators from taking photos during the event, then the spectator can sell his photos.

Snowgirl

Blaker wrote:

Depends on what is in the contract between the venue and the event organizer. If there is nothing contractually prohibiting it, then go ahead and sell the photo.

Issue#2:
Photographer C is displaying his photos of the event for sale on his website. Should Photographer A approach Photog. C and tell him not to sell his photos? Should Photog. C capitulate?

If the person was a spectator and there are no signs prohibiting spectators from taking photos during the event, then the spectator can sell his photos.[/quote]

Interesting. Assuming no contracts or signage, then technically anyone can take pictures and sell them.

Generally speaking professional courtesy between photographers may come in to play. In my case, if I were Photog. B I would only sell the photo IF I was positive that it's the only photo the customer really wanted and that the official photog A had nothing similar - mostly to maintain a good relationship with Photog. A. (I'm not, by nature, cut-throat)

Anyone else?

Cygnus Studios

While it would be nice and professional for photographer B to suggest to any client that they purchase images from the official photographer, it would be determined by the contract.

The spectator has no obligation as long as they are following the rules of the facility and the event.

johng

Leaving C out of the discussion, this can get tricky.

First part of the discussion is the contract between B and the facility - and whether or not THAT contract allows B to sell images.

If it doesn't then case closed. If it DOES, that's where things get tricky:

They get tricky because then photographer A's contract gets looked at. Let's say photographer A has a contract giving them exclusive rights to shoot the team. In that case, this is where the lawyers and couorts would have to come into play - deciding whether photographer B is bound by photographer As contract. If there was nothing specifically in a contract between the venue and the team it's likely a very grey area.

Now, if photographer A's contract does NOT grant them exclusive rights AND photographer Bs contract with the venue allows them to sell then there is no issue with B selling the photos.

Here's my take on it though - if A does have exclusive rights and photographer B is allowed to sell, and I'm photograher B I have to weigh how much profit there really is in selling the photos. Stepping on another photographer's turf can be VERY detrimental. The sports shooting community isn't that large. So if this is a paltry sale of a couple hundred $$ or less, I'd let it pass in this scenario - it isn't worth the potential long term damage of my reputation in the industry. Even if it's larger, you have to be prepared for the potential legal battle if photographer A finds out. And, since B is working for the faciliy you can bet the facility will be named in the lawsuit. So B had better be sure the facility is on board with the sale. If they're not and they get sued guess who is looking for a job? And guess whose name is mud to anyone photographer A knows in the industry?

mercphoto

Snowgirl wrote:

On another photog. chat group the following situation is being discussed. I'm just curious about others' thoughts on the subject...

Situation:
Photographer 'A' is the Official Photographer for a sport event (designated by the sport organization), and takes photos of the action, winners etc. - some donated to the sport organization and the rest available for sale to the participants, etc.

Photographer 'B' works for the facility in which the event is being held and is management's Official Photographer. Photos are used for media releases and the facility's website. They are not promoted as being for sale.

This very thing happened to me when I was the official photographer for Iron Rock Raceway. They hosted a Stars of Karting national event one year and that series has a series photographer that travels with them. He got in a huff because I was there. When he realized that I was an official phtoographer for the hosting track we got into a bit of a turf battle. Didn't help matter that track management was unaware of this as well.

What ended up happening was I was asked not to sell on-site (no biggie, I never did). I had already pre-sold race coverage CD's for four of the local riders. I made out ok in the end and there were no hurt feelings between me and the other guy (who was also a very good race photographer). But in the end I'm still not sure whose contract would win out in this event. It just took some discussion and meeting some common ground.

The guy's excellent work can be found here:
http://www.ontrackpromotions.com/Home.html

Snowgirl

mercphoto wrote:

This very thing happened to me when I was the official photographer for Iron Rock Raceway. They hosted a Stars of Karting national event one year and that series has a series photographer that travels with them. He got in a huff because I was there. When he realized that I was an official phtoographer for the hosting track we got into a bit of a turf battle. Didn't help matter that track management was unaware of this as well.

What ended up happening was I was asked not to sell on-site (no biggie, I never did). I had already pre-sold race coverage CD's for four of the local riders. I made out ok in the end and there were no hurt feelings between me and the other guy (who was also a very good race photographer). But in the end I'm still not sure whose contract would win out in this event. It just took some discussion and meeting some common ground.

The guy's excellent work can be found here:
http://www.ontrackpromotions.com/Home.html

Turf wars are never a good thing. As someone else said, for a few $ it's not really worth the bad feelings - although I do feel some empathy for the customer who simply wants a particular photo of themselves or their child or whatever.

In the case I was describing, the photographer's contract with the facility does allow sale of photographs, by the way. But when there is an event on-site with a designated OP, the facility photographer does not promote, display or advertise in any way.

JohnBiggs

The same thing happened to me. I was photographer C - Sort of.

The team hired me to shoot photos of their game. However they didn't realize the facility had a contract with another photog. I was told that normally I would not be allowed to shoot inside the fence but this one time they didn't have a contract in place so they let me.

Basically they did say spectators can do what they want. They control what spectators do by keeping them behind the fence which limits the quality of the pictures.

In my opinion the photo in question should not be sold. Even if its not spelled out in the contract, there is likely some kind of 'understood' agreement and respect in place. Not that anything can be done legally, it sure wouldn't keep a good relationship with the photographer.