What the heck? Strobes with wireless trigger..

Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
edited June 10, 2009 in Technique
Greetings,

Perhaps I'm missing something simple here ?

I tried using the ebay wireless shutter release to trigger strobes with ebay wireless transmitter and receiver.

Strobes fire 100% of the time but the flash only registers on the image sporatically.

Manually press the shutter, works fine.

Use wired remote shutter, works fine.

Tried different sync speeds, f values, fresh battery, different camera, different pressure on the button :dunno

Same results. What the heck?

Cheers, Don
Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
Product Photography
My Acreage Bird Photographs
«1

Comments

  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited May 28, 2009
    Odd.........My ebay specials (both strobe triggers and camera wireless trigger) seem to work fine in conjunction with one another...........
    One should not affect the other....they do 2 different jobs completely.
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited May 28, 2009
    You would think?

    I even tried triggering the strobes with the wireless shutter transmitter directly and that didn't work, as it shouldn't...

    Thought possibly they were on the same channel and fired the strobe before the shutter but that's not happening.

    ????

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • OspreyOsprey Registered Users Posts: 162 Major grins
    edited June 3, 2009
    Could be
    could be you got a bad one. Consider trying it on someone elses' set up. I to have an ebay special and it works finerolleyes1.gif
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 3, 2009
    Perhaps I wasn't clear...

    The wireless shutter release triggers the shutter just fine.

    The wireless transmitter and strobe receivers work just fine.

    But they don't work together, sigh...

    I did try a google search and found a few references to an out of sync timing issue with these triggers but couldn't find an explanation for it or a work around...

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • Tim KamppinenTim Kamppinen Registered Users Posts: 816 Major grins
    edited June 4, 2009
    Make sure all the batteries are good... I'd just buy new ones and replace them all. The batteries that these triggers ship with are generally crap anyway and don't last long. Beyond that, have you tried different shutter speeds? It may be that you need to use a longer shutter speed to get them in the shot every time. Not ideal, but it may be the only solution if there's some sort of delay going on.
    http://www.timkphotography.com
    http://blog.timkphotography.com
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited June 4, 2009
    Don Kondra wrote:
    Perhaps I wasn't clear...

    The wireless shutter release triggers the shutter just fine.

    The wireless transmitter and strobe receivers work just fine.

    But they don't work together, sigh...eek7.gifhuheek7.gifhuh

    I did try a google search and found a few references to an out of sync timing issue with these triggers but couldn't find an explanation for it or a work around...

    Cheers, Don

    links please...........
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 4, 2009
    http://photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00LPQH

    I suppose it wouldn't hurt to have spare batteries but one of the responders in the link above reported that it did not cure his problem..

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited June 5, 2009
    Don Kondra wrote:
    Perhaps I wasn't clear...

    The wireless shutter release triggers the shutter just fine.

    The wireless transmitter and strobe receivers work just fine.

    But they don't work together, sigh...

    I did try a google search and found a few references to an out of sync timing issue with these triggers but couldn't find an explanation for it or a work around...

    Cheers, Don

    Sorry if I missed it, but...

    Does the wireless trigger cause the flashes to fire (is it firing the flashes early?) OR the wireless trigger is causing interference with the other radios.

    Perhaps try the wired trigger again but push the wireless trigger (obviously not really triggering anything) at the same time. Are the images messed up?
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 5, 2009
    JohnBiggs wrote:
    Sorry if I missed it, but...

    Does the wireless trigger cause the flashes to fire (is it firing the flashes early?) OR the wireless trigger is causing interference with the other radios.

    Perhaps try the wired trigger again but push the wireless trigger (obviously not really triggering anything) at the same time. Are the images messed up?

    The wireless shutter release does cause the stobes to fire but there seems to be a sync problem, the flash does not register on the image.

    I have tried slower and faster sync speeds but the flash will only register once in a while ???

    If I just press the shutter button directly or use a wired shutter release the flash registers all the time..

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • time2smiletime2smile Registered Users Posts: 835 Major grins
    edited June 6, 2009
    Are you using the camera flash also, when it doesn't sync. it sounds like the old preflash error you get when you use a peanut. The flash goes off before the shutter actually opens.
    Ted....
    It's not what you look at that matters: Its what you see!
    Nikon
    http://www.time2smile.smugmug.com
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 6, 2009
    The on board flash is off, if it was on, the wireless transmitter does not allow it to pop up and the strobe slave is also out of the line of sight and behind the softbox and couldn't sense the flash anyway.

    Good thought though...

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited June 8, 2009
    Don Kondra wrote:
    The wireless shutter release does cause the stobes to fire but there seems to be a sync problem, the flash does not register on the image.

    I have tried slower and faster sync speeds but the flash will only register once in a while ???

    If I just press the shutter button directly or use a wired shutter release the flash registers all the time..

    Cheers, Don

    THats the problem then. The wireless shutter release should not be firing the flash too. You have to let the radio on the shoe of the camera fire the flash. the shutter doesn't have enough time to open for the flash. No matter how slow your shutter is, the flash has fired well before it has even opened.

    It may seem instant to you, but its far from it.
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 8, 2009
    JohnBiggs wrote:
    THats the problem then. The wireless shutter release should not be firing the flash too. You have to let the radio on the shoe of the camera fire the flash. the shutter doesn't have enough time to open for the flash. No matter how slow your shutter is, the flash has fired well before it has even opened.

    It may seem instant to you, but its far from it.

    To be clear, the wireless shutter release triggers the shutter which in turn fires the wireless transmitter on the hot shoe which triggers the receiver on the strobe to fire/flash.

    The flash from the strobe does not register on the image if it is triggered by the wireless shutter release.

    If I press the shutter button directly, the flash from the strobe registers on the image all the time.

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • Manfr3dManfr3d Registered Users Posts: 2,008 Major grins
    edited June 8, 2009
    Have you tried changeing curtain sync (rear, first)? Or very long exposure times (like 1 sec) if not I agree with the thread title.
    “To consult the rules of composition before making a picture is a little like consulting the law of gravitation before going for a walk.”
    ― Edward Weston
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 8, 2009
    I've tried from 1/60 to 1/300, same results... flash sync speed is 1/180

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • Manfr3dManfr3d Registered Users Posts: 2,008 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    Don Kondra wrote:
    I've tried from 1/60 to 1/300, same results... flash sync speed is 1/180

    Cheers, Don

    Did you try first curtain sync and 2nd curtain sync? The difference is that the falsh fires when the shutter opens and slightly before it closes.
    Its possible that your triggering system has too much lag so that the camera can't catch the flash when the flsah is triggered on 2nd curtain.
    “To consult the rules of composition before making a picture is a little like consulting the law of gravitation before going for a walk.”
    ― Edward Weston
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    Okay, I'll admit I have no idea what you are talking about...

    I'm shooting in manual mode, the "flash" is an Alien Bees strobe and as far as I know the only way to control the relationship between the flash and first and second curtain is by raising or lowering the sync speed.

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    Don Kondra wrote:
    Okay, I'll admit I have no idea what you are talking about...

    I'm shooting in manual mode, the "flash" is an Alien Bees strobe and as far as I know the only way to control the relationship between the flash and first and second curtain is by raising or lowering the sync speed.

    Cheers, Don

    On canon it's in the custom functions. Sets wether you want the flash to fire at the beginning of the exposure or the end.
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    With the wireless transmitter on the hot shoe, the on board flash can not raise so those flash options are not available, ie., on the menu screen they are gray....

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    Don Kondra wrote:
    With the wireless transmitter on the hot shoe, the on board flash can not raise so those flash options are not available, ie., on the menu screen they are gray....

    Cheers, Don

    Apparently Canon blocks this as well. Here is a hack that should work with the inbuilt flash jsut as well. http://www.flickr.com/photos/raf-k/3527684496/

    It sucks though.

    If you set your exposure to a second or more, you could just pop the flashes yourself with the other transmitter.
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    Don't think that will work in this specific situation, I'm trying to catch hummingbirds in flight... on their way to and away from a feeder. Timing is critical....

    The wireless remote is because any movement at the camera and they are gone plus I don't have the time or patience to stand AT the camera. I simply point the camera at the feeder and I can trigger the camera from anywhere in the house while I'm doing something more productive :)

    The idea of using the strobes was to not be limited by available light/time of day and hopefully get better results freezing the wing movement.

    Perhaps the simple answer is to splice in a length of cord on the wired release.

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • Art ScottArt Scott Registered Users Posts: 8,959 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    it could very well be that the 2 RF transmitters are interfering with one another....maybe the channels are too close........this would a case for actually being able to control frequency and not just channel 1 or 2 or 3 ......as those may very well be the same for both transmitters......of course I could be completely wrong also...........
    "Genuine Fractals was, is and will always be the best solution for enlarging digital photos." ....Vincent Versace ... ... COPYRIGHT YOUR WORK ONLINE ... ... My Website

  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    Art Scott wrote:
    it could very well be that the 2 RF transmitters are interfering with one another....maybe the channels are too close........this would a case for actually being able to control frequency and not just channel 1 or 2 or 3 ......as those may very well be the same for both transmitters......of course I could be completely wrong also...........

    This is what I suggested in post #9 in not so many words. I also suggested a possible way of testing it. I don't think OP did the test.
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    I did the test, perhaps I wasn't clear, the wireless shutter release will not fire the strobe on its own.

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • JohnBiggsJohnBiggs Registered Users Posts: 841 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    Don Kondra wrote:
    I did the test, perhaps I wasn't clear, the wireless shutter release will not fire the strobe on its own.

    Cheers, Don

    No, this test
    Me wrote:
    Perhaps try the wired trigger again but push the wireless trigger (obviously not really triggering anything) at the same time. Are the images messed up?
    Canon Gear: 5D MkII, 30D, 85 1.2 L, 70-200 2.8 IS L, 17-40mm f4 L, 50 1.4, 580EX, 2x 580EXII, Canon 1.4x TC, 300 f4 IS L, 100mm 2.8 Macro, 100-400 IS L
    Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
    ~ Gear Pictures
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    Do I have this right?

    You want me to replace the wireless shutter release receiver with the wired shutter release And then press the wireless shutter release transmitter and the wired shutter release at the same time?

    If I understand you correctly, this will only tell me what I already know. The wired shutter release fires the strobes correctly.

    ???

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 9, 2009
    I apologize if I sound less than grateful for the help.

    Considering the speeds involved and the fact that I never was very good with video games, ie., actually pressing both buttons at the "same" time, I can't see how your test will prove anything ??

    Care to expand on your thinking?

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • thoththoth Registered Users Posts: 1,085 Major grins
    edited June 10, 2009
    The purpose of the test that John recommended is to determine if the wireless remote is interfering with the flash firing, not to determine if it is capable of actually firing the flashes. If both your wireless shutter remote and your flash trigger are operating on close frequencies then the wireless shutter remote may be causing the flash trigger to delay firing due to signal loss.

    Plug in your cable release and grab your wireless remote. You will not be actually triggering the shutter with the wireless so, if it uses a receiver that plugs into the camera, you won't need that connected. Since your Nintendo finger isn't practiced up, try pressing the wireless shutter remote button and then, as quickly as you can, press the cable release button. The wireless remote should still be putting out a signal and, if it's going to, interfere with the flash firing.

    If the wireless remote is, in fact, interfering with the flash triggering, you should see that effect in the photo even though you triggered the camera with the cable release.
    Travis
  • Don KondraDon Kondra Registered Users Posts: 630 Major grins
    edited June 10, 2009
    Okay,

    This isn't quite the same but I changed the channels on the remote shutter release and got the same results...

    Cheers, Don
    Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
    Product Photography
    My Acreage Bird Photographs
  • thoththoth Registered Users Posts: 1,085 Major grins
    edited June 10, 2009
    Changing the channels doesn't necessarily change the frequency on which the remote operates. It will also not guarantee that, if it doesn't change the frequency, the change will be great enough to move outside of the range in which it can cause interference with another device.

    I may have overlooked this but I don't see that you posted the model of your remote shutter release or flash triggers. Could you post what you're using? If the operating frequencies of the two devices, which should be google-able, aren't close then we're likely barking up the wrong tree.
    Travis
Sign In or Register to comment.