Intimidation Factor?
ChrisJ
Registered Users Posts: 2,164 Major grins
Does anyone else (with less than 1000 posts 
) feel this?
I've been taking pictures a long time, and mostly people like my photos. But almost every time I'm about to post a picture to Dgrin, I second guess myself. Is it good enough, sharp enough, right DOF, etc.?
There are so many good photogs on here with stunning images... So I feel an intimidation factor.
Is that bad? Not necessarily. Reading/posting here has made me constantly think about how I shoot and edit. But I still feel that hesitation, even if it's helping me out!
I dunno, maybe it's just glass envy! :rofl
) feel this?I've been taking pictures a long time, and mostly people like my photos. But almost every time I'm about to post a picture to Dgrin, I second guess myself. Is it good enough, sharp enough, right DOF, etc.?
There are so many good photogs on here with stunning images... So I feel an intimidation factor.
Is that bad? Not necessarily. Reading/posting here has made me constantly think about how I shoot and edit. But I still feel that hesitation, even if it's helping me out!
I dunno, maybe it's just glass envy! :rofl
Chris
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Cincinnati Smug Leader
Another problem I used to have is feeling personally slighted if I only got a few replies to a post. It took a while to get used to, but with so much content here it's really hard to comment on everything. It's just how it is, and nobody means anything by not replying.
So post away, and try to make yourself post some B or C images instead of just the perfect ones!
I have over 1,000 posts but I feel like that too. Whenever I post a few pics it seems like someone comes in and posts some shots that I feel are much better than mine.
I have to take a minute out and remind myself that I'm not competing against anyone else. I'm just trying to do the best that I can. Part of the process for me is sharing my pictures and receiving comments and hopefully some critque.
You probably continue to feel that "intimadation factor". The best thing to do is to ignore it and keep on posting.
Harry
http://behret.smugmug.com/ NANPA member
How many photographers does it take to change a light bulb? 50. One to change the bulb, and forty-nine to say, "I could have done that better!"
Before dgrin was created, and I even knew about places like dpreview, I joined an online photog community called 'usefilm'. I don't know how many photographers belong there, but I know that there are probably at least 50 pics uploaded per HOUR, 24/7 from around the world. Talk about feeling like a little fish in a big ocean. I gave up even trying to follow all the work being posted. Basically you try and find a few *friends* to connect with and spend most of your time interacting with them, otherwise you'd go nuts. I have around 70 pics in my galleries there, but nowadays I'm lucky if I average two comments per shot. That can really try your patience and your ego
Even though it may feel overwhelming here at times, trust me-this is an oasis in a www that is full of photography boards. I hate to say it, but I cringe whenever there is a member drive mentioned here-
But in the end, as they say-"it's all good"
We should all be thankful we have it so good here.
Your own self confidence will grow with time and posting and seeing how people react. So basically, shoot and post what you want and when you want
"Failure is feedback. And feedback is the breakfast of champions." - fortune cookie
I know where yer comin from
There are some really good shooters here and, like Harry, I routinely see pics that make my versions of a similar subject look like cr@p
The good part is that it's still a blast to go shooting and no matter what I wind up coming home with, I know I can share it with my friends here at Dgrin :-) Good or bad. You should feel likewise
My advice is post what you want to post and don't worry about not meeting any imaginary standard. If everyone felt as you do, there would only be a handful of folks posting pics :uhoh That would get boring ........fast
Steve
If you like it then post it, this is a photo forum where we SHARE our photo interest not compete against each other.
and yes how else can you improve if you only have you to ask
My Galleries
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Bottom line is the folks on this board are just the best around, don't worry they don't bite... much...
POST AWAY!!!
Ed
www.edhughesphoto.com
I took 10s today, really do feel good about my photos, today! Plus the ones I worked up this AM. And the osprey shots from yesterday.
I don't know who to blame for today, sometimes I think god makes it pretty darn hard not to believe in Santa Claus, or something like that. I don't want to offend anyone.
Not only was a great blue in the street, not a real street, a walkway through the Magnolia marsh.........................a night heron was too.
Was going to just post the darn thing, so HAPPY! But gotta tell people.
Intimidated????? Everyone here must know about my whining!
I go from up in the sky to down in the depths of hell, or something. And I whine, or as I might say, "I share my feelings".
Not only was a night heron in the street, acting normal for the breed, ready to spook any sec, but he and I became friends, kind of. He didn't spook. I have a whole gb of photos of the Night Heron. I just may post a "photo of the day".
Even back lit.
I don't think I am as much intimidated as hurt, afraid to be hurt, etc. Plus I think that a lot of the new people have a history in photography that I don't have, knowledge I don't. I feel less able to "do well".
Also, and I have to look at my photos, just finished uploading. Hope they are good.
Well, I feel we are now at a higher level of in the photography world. That scares me, say in the challenge, from the standpoint of success. Or lack there of. Some, many, of these new people are GOOD.
And to go without responses to my posts: and feel OK about it. It is in a book, a Lenswork magazine, that we like for our photographs to be seen, so if no one lets us know that they have been seen, some appreciated, well, kind of like somebody's idea of a bad photo, why bother to post if no one is looking.
Does a tree make noise if no one is there to hear it? We are artists, and I think that ........................
Well, gonna go work! Got enough for my week. Except all the babies will be gone, maybe this week.
Oh, no, I do not, absolutely do not, respond to all the posts here. I respond to extremely interesting appearing ones, my friend's posts (my friends are people who have responded to mine) and always to Andy's and Harry's.
I was jealous, wanted to be as popular as Harry, but I just realized the he responds to all responses, in addition to his "job" as moderator where he responds to almost, in not all, posts on "his" forum.
I apologize to anyone I have neglected recently. I have been going nuts with "whine" and "busy".
I am often up all night and all day doing this stuff. Plus, we were trying not to run the a/c, and I felt terrible. It has been on since I realized that I was killing one of my dogs from the heat. I turned it on at about 4 PM one day and immediately slept for 6 hours. Figured that was a message.
So, in some ways I have not been "as nice" as normal. Sorry.
ginger (Global warming is now confirmed. I am trying to figure out who is responsible..................so I can now sue for a new a/c.):D
Post a second comment?
My first response was a reply to a quote someone made way back there somewhere. Now I'll direct my post to the topic at hand....
'Intimidation'...
Well, I think it's a good thing actually. I honestly believe we ALL should pause a second and ask ourselves-"why am I posting this?
I'm all for *sharing* and *being nice*
I think that if we are truly serious about photography, and interested in learning, our work (no matter what level we may be at), will show it. It is one thing to be a beginner and start a thread asking an opinion on a portrait or a landscape. It's another thing altogether to start a thread with 7 snapshots that show no real creative desire or intent (I am NOT referring to NOR thinking of ANYONE in particular, and yes I did mean to *shout*). People should feel welcome and comfortable to post here, and they should be treated with respect, no matter what they post. I also think that as people's skills improve, or others in the community feel they should be improving, the critiques should be a little stronger and more direct (while still maintaining a dignified and classy manner). For the most part, this is actually what I have witnessed here.
(NOTE: I'll probably regret saying one thing or another above sometime soon so stay tuned for some crow-editing....)
Of course, the best advice I can give you is this:
"SHUT UP AND PLAY YER GUITAR!" (From the immortal Frank Zappa.)
Or as the Nike ads say-"Just do it."
Sometimes, often, I think that is a part of the problem. Agendas are different for different people.
Just a thought.
Oh, at the end of an extended time here, a diploma, or some other sign of learning will be granted?
ginger
After thinking about this a bit more, I realized I do it myself: I only comment on a photo if it really grabs me in some way (and not always even then, if there are already 15+ responses). These tend to be the "better" photos. I also try and leave the true critiquing to those who know better than myself.
I'm sure others like me that do the same... so the more "normal" shots don't get any or few comments.
I'll try and be a bit freer in my postings AND comments. But it can be a fine line... Too many cooks...
The Dgrin community is great, no question, especially when the only "complaint" (really a comment) is that it can be technically excellent to the point of some intimidation!
The good thing is I take more pictures now than I used to. And that's the best way to get better.
Cheers to everyone. No worries. Cherry-Ripes all 'round! :cheeburga (Though I prefer pure chocolate).
P.S. I still think it's glass envy... ever since I've gotten here I've been yearning for L lenses, ball heads, a real flash, etc....
I'll trade in some banter before turning in
hmmm...I looked around and didn't see anything. I guess the 'purpose' is "Digital Photography with an Attitude"
Well, even the word *agenda* means different things to different people (see here: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&oi=defmore&q=define:Agenda)
What is my 'agenda'? I don't have one-this is 'free-time' for me, agenda sounds way too much like work or politics-for what I get paid to post here, I'm not about to set an agenda
I do have personal goals photographically speaking, and I enjoy exchanging ideas and knowledge gained about it, and even an occasional pic or two.
Sometimes I may need specific help with something and usually as a last resort I'll ask
If you want a diploma, join a school, they give them out all the time-whether you deserve one or not from what I hear.
If you want the personal satisfaction of a job well done, as recognized and validated by peers whose opinion you respect, I'd say you're in the right place. If you are frustrated by a lack of support for your work, then re-examine what you are doing. If it still feels right to you-"shut up and play yer guitar", continue to do it, but seek out an audience that appreciates it. Nothing worse than a beautiful sonata that no one but you can hear.
If you are not satisfied with your work, then take the criticism, apply it and 're-submit' until you feel you can't take it any further. Then sit down and rest
Now, I will say this, and stand by it (pretty much)...
Although the arts in general and photography are 'subjective' as far as "what is art?", I still believe in some general principals that elevate certain art or photographs to a level that can only be described as *good*. I stand in opposition to current thinking that "it's all good". That is rubbish in my opinion and has lead to a lot of mediocrity in the arts and society in general. It's like holding a track meet without a stopwatch-why bother? A shot is either good or it isn't. I may not like the subject or some other aspect of it, but I should still be able to recognize it as a good or bad example of the genre.
Care needs to be taken when giving an opinion obviously. A good portrait for me, may be a very poor portrait for Shay Stephens. So we do need to take into consideration the skill level of the 'student' or aspiring photographer. And I honestly believe we are all students-just not at the same level.
As an example-failing to be able to recognize and identify the attributes of a good portrait and just calling *every* portrait "good" does a disservice to both the 'photographer' and our craft. We can be positive in our critique, but we should be honest. We don't have to say it "suks" but if the eyes are out of focus and the composition and color are very poor, we have imo a responsibility to stand up and say-"the emperor is naked". The caveat being (of course) if and when those things are done purposefully.
I guess that's why I'm here, as iron sharpens iron, good photographers sharpen me
geez, what a book...I'm off to bed...good night all...
Still, I did gather up the courage to post my first pic a few days ago. While the response was not exactly overwhelming, it was really quite valuable (thanks Shay
I am learning a lot just by looking at other people's shots and the comments they elicit. Yeah, my stuff looks pretty poor by comparison, but considering my lack of experience that is to be expected. The important thing is to keep learning.
I don't have any experience with other photography boards, but I have a lot of experience with technology forums. I must say that I haven't seen any group as supportive and welcoming as this one. Maybe I'll even post another pic one of these days!
Cheers,
Chris - I understand what you're feeling. I too have many doubts about my work but I can easily say I've never felt intimidated about posting. Everyone here has been so nice, so receptive, so accomodating. I've never been part of any other photo site but from what I can gather from other posts here, some of those sites have proven pretty miserable and unwelcoming.
On reflection I have to add this: While I still don't know that this is an intimidation factor, what bugs me are the lurkers. For me, there's nothing more disconcerting than tracking one of your own posts as 10, then 20, then 30 hits, or more, are registered with no comments posted. Boy, talk about being left with a hollow feeling. I'd rather have a post slammed as awful then ignored.
Moderator of: Location, Location, Location , Mind Your Own Business & Other Cool Shots
I see and know expert macro shooters posting everyday and enjoy every single shot. To comment and post with them is great. We all learn together. Never let anyone intimidate you, never, never, never.
I said to someone the other day, that for every single great shot you see from ANYONE, there are a 100 they don't want you to see
Danny.
Gosh, I'm not blonde but I tell you what my understanding of photography often has me feeling very very very blonde (no offence to real blondes :lolyour in a class of your own and I aint competing with that
I know what I want to achieve and I try hard to achieve it, and yep I fail lots of times, but thats okay, I don't show anyone my failures
What I try to do is learn from what I do wrong, in the hope that I can do even better next time.
If some folks who are posting here on Dgrin now, could look back to what they were producing when they first got their digital cameras, they would tell you they have improved greatly over what they produced as a beginner.
Me I have trouble retaining technical things, and much of it goes way over my head, I still fail to understand so much of it, but at this stage of my learning I am happy even making mistakes, because I do not know a single person who actually got worse the more they used their camera do you
Post away my friend, the main thing is that you are happy with your work and you had fun doing it, thats what counts the pleasure you had that no one can take away from you
Take Care........ Skippy (Australia)
Skippy (Australia) - Moderator of "HOLY MACRO" and "OTHER COOL SHOTS"
ALBUM http://ozzieskip.smugmug.com/
:skippy Everyone has the right to be stupid, but some people just abuse the privilege :dgrin
BTW who do I talk to about adding 4 hours to every day so I have time for the processing and posting?
www.zxstudios.com
http://creativedragonstudios.smugmug.com
Sorry, I have a tad over 1K posts, since the vast majority of them are Star*Explorer or SM API related, I hope I still qualify...
The easiest thing to deal with this feeling, as many pointed out, is do not compete with the others - just learn and improve. Essentially, compete with yourself. If you become your worst critic - you can rest assured you will only hear "wow" from the rest of the crowd:-)
Cheers!
“PHOTOGRAPHY IS THE ‘JAZZ’ FOR THE EYES…”
http://jwear.smugmug.com/
My motivation to post, share, critique here is simple: to give back.
That being said I am very good (I mean that in a bad way) at being my own worst critic. I go through lots of ups and downs, and dry spells. But one thing never changes; that is that the world we live in is beautiful (if you stop and look), and worth time and effort to protect, enjoy and share with others. So share, enjoy and nevermind about silly numbers.
AJ
I believe that Ginger might have been referring to a comment I made in another thread. It was unauthorized and my opinion alone. No one has ever told me that this is the philosophy or mission of Dgrin
"As members post more and more pics, and their skills improve, the comments get more focused and more critical. The underlying mission of the forum is to help people improve their photographic skills. You can't do that by constantly sugar coating responses. But, you don't have to blow people out of the water (or disenchant them) on their first few pic posts either."
Steve
Dgrin is definitely a very friendly site to all skill levels. So post on ...
Brad
www.digismile.ca
and to tell stories about them. So therefore, not all of my photos will be "knock you socks off drop dead gorgeous" ones.
Sometimes I post "bad" photos, just to show I actually managed to shoot something I've been stalking.
One of my favorite photos for illustration was at the "duck pond" where I got a shot of a photographer pointing his camera up to try to photograph birds in the palm trees. A certain someone (to be unmentioned
Not being technically inclined, never mind not having a great deal of patience, or a great deal of stamina these days, I've shied away from a dSLR and lugging lenses and then kicking myself for not having the "right" lens on the camera for the shot I want to get.
Also, I like to point, frame, and shoot! No tripod, no fiddlin' with exposure, speed, aperture or any of that stuff, no putting on any ND filters or polarizers. But I've slowly been giving in to the inevitable and have tried to stop and think a little bit first before pointing, framing and shooting.
Sometimes a lot of my pictures get good viewing but not many comments. Of course I feel bad that more people don't comment (guess they just don't think there's anything to comment about) -- on good days I could think, they were just stunned and left speechless and there were no words to describe how much they liked my photo -- and they'd make everyone else jealous of me
Then I'd get hate mail or I'd be innundated with questions
So, I just take it as it is -- can't change it anyway unless I begin a private message campaign -- hey whoever you are, please look at this thread and comment?
As you leave comments for other people, they'll get to know you by checking your online album and perhaps will start leaving comments for you.
Sometimes, people just want to check in and out -- think of dgrin as their morning cup of Starbucks while they hasten to get on with their life (or hopefully their photography). Other times people have more time to sit and savor the photos.
If any one posts a thread about lenses -- you can be sure I will NOT look... and I'm sure others on the forum are the same for whatever is, or is not, their current interest.
Now, I have some pictures to process, and a silly thread to post!
http://www.twitter.com/deegolden
It just seems a fact of life that different people are seeking to receive and/or provide different things. That sentence was meant to be confusing.
As an example, the first time I realized this. I was married to someone for 14 yrs, he spent some of those yrs as a professor of commercial art, that meant everything from life drawing to "shoe" drawing. I noticed that he seemed to feel that his role was to "critique" everything that was handed in.
Some stuff was A work, but it always had something "wrong" with it, the A part was not mentioned, the "something wrong" was.
I majored in commercial art for a time, took one of his courses, he was a very popular teacher, I went back to school in my thirties with a friend, we both majored in commercial art. We both signed up for his life drawing class. After a week with him, I transferred to someone else, someone who "got no respect", but she was an absolutely wonderful teacher. LOaned me books, etc. Just so overlooked as a teacher. (Sorry for the digression)
My friend maintained her major in art, so she was destined for courses under my ex, their art styles were very similar, yet he trashed her stuff repeatedly, I was a "behind the scenes" observer and a confident (sp), she was a strong woman, stayed the course (s).
So, since then I have been very aware of different teaching styles, how nice it is to hear the positive, along with the negative, at any stage of one's art work, etc.
Steve, you have been wonderful. I always hear you using a teaching style I like. Perhaps it is time restraints, we can't leave long posts, we are busy. Until today, I have not posted much in the last few days, so we don't say much. I go the "nice photo" route, no matter the person (there are diff ways to say that), others go the "what can be learned" route, a lot. Or something. No time to combine, or I am wrong here or something.
I figured I would wait for things to die down then post here, more or less, what I do like in a "critique" or comment (for me). Those can be the same or different.
But this is a subject that has been dear to my heart for a long time. One, I am very sensitive, and I am very reactive (it goes away), but it also causes hurt and confusion, I guess. I have observed this both personally and from my friend's stand point for a long time. Etc.
Anyway, I do think that often, perhaps in my tennis, and you certainly were never there, any of you, agendas can be very different. And the communication between people can make no sense, if one doesn't get that. I certainly never understood why anyone would get up at the crack of dawn, to say the least of expecting me to, to play tennis, until I realized that some of those people felt the same about tennis that i feel about photography. They did not understand me, and I did not understand them.
I had an Ah Hah moment on that. I am now not playing tennis, am much happier on that, have my time free from morning "must play" dates. And they don't have to wonder why I am "difficult". (someone else went the same route, so it was not just me)
This was longer than I expected.
I just want to say that my ex, the paragon of teaching, who never would see dGrin, so this is not a problem, he did not get tenure and lost his teaching job. The excellent teacher: she had tenure.
ginger
Cheers!
If you are going to look at Andy's landscapes, or Harry's birds, or Yuri's portraits and say to yourself "I cannot show mine, they are not as good" you are cheating yourself. Are you going to get praise and glory over every shot... NOPE. Are the people here going to tear you to shreds if they dont like your work.... NOPE (I hope).
Some posts will attract attention and recieve comments. Some will slip by barely seen with no comments. It is the nature of things.
Some of your favorite photos will not be loved. Some that you do not love will attract raves. This is also the nature of things.
If you are a hobbiest. the existance of challenges, contests, comercial competition and other pressures, are not important. The improvement of your work as it relates to achieving your OWN visions is what matters most. Did the shot come out the WAY you intended. Does it convey the feelings or thoughs you wanted it too? Does it convey them to others? These things are important.
There is no doubt that active participation in this forum will help you with the ability to technically and artistically achieve your own vision.
Every photographer on this forum started with post number 1. Some of them started very early. Some much later. It has nothing to do with the quality of their work. It does however say something about the quality of the atmosphere of the forum. People get involved, and they stay.
Share your work. Dont be affraid, the fear gains you nothing.
hi - great thread discussion here. I am a former lurker...I lurked for a long time because I was intimidated and I didn't feel like I had anything to offer in the way of constructive criticism or skilled images.
But - I took the plunge and delurked myself after seeing how supportive most people are on here. If you ask for criticism or advice, someone gives it. If you just post a proud pic...you'll get some nice pats on the back.
One post somewhere in dgrin...it was made by one you more experienced guys (or gals...not sure who!) had made a comment on someone's (not sure who's) photo...something to the effect of (airquotes) Wow! You have improved so much since we first started seeing you here! Great! Way to go! (end airquotes)
Others responded the same way...I think that's the reason I am here...to get advice, criticism, and grow to have a comment like that one day.
my 2 cents,
Adrienne
Maybe we should have a thread somewhere, "Hi, my name is ___________ and I'm a lurker"
I started with forums as a more selective way to view photos online. I like looking at photos, but imagine if everyone only liked looking at photos. There would be no photos posted:cry, so it comes down to sharing, giving back to others with what they share with me.
Many years ago, I only showed photos that I was completely content with. I didn't show much, but I did spend a lot of time working these shots (darkroom) for what; to sit in a box? My philosophy has changed much since then. I now enjoy sharing my less than perfect shots. I post to share. If it gets comments, great. If it doesn't get comments, great too. I can see that someone has looked so I've done my part. I don't always comments on shots that I think are great. I don't always comment on photos that need something more. It all depends on my mood. Sometimes I just want to look at photos, that's all.
Wow's are nice, but don't tell you much. A critique or indepth comment, whether positive or negative, is very important. It tells you how others see your creation which may be quite different than how you see your own. It doesn't mean your own view of the photo has to change or even should change, it's just a personal thing.
Photography is a creative outlet from a technical world. Creating for myself and sharing for my own pleasure is why I do this. When there is a group of people doing this, it becomes a mutual experience where we all learn from one another
I've rambled on too long here, but post and enjoy or just look and enjoy, but enjoy. The competitions are kept in the challenges
Happy Shooting,
Chris
A picture is but words to the eyes.
Comments are always welcome.
www.pbase.com/Higgmeister