Basic portrait pricing help need

divamum

So my only paid shoot to date has been for performer headshots, where I had a good idea how to set things up and how to charge for it since I've been a CLIENT in that situation (I created two packages which I felt were appropriate to my level and gave the client leeway to tailor it to their budget.)

However, I've now been approached to shoot a young family (husband, wife and 1 year old son) and this means I need to understand how "normal" portrait sessions are charged, and how the print ordering process works since my understanding is that the session fee is lower, but print prices are NOT included and are much higher. Do they pick pictures from my gallery which I then have printed at my own expense and they pay me? Do they order from a smug gallery at my set price and then it's deducted by the order company and forwarded? Is hourly + print costs more typical for portraits?

Aargh. Point me to previous threads or anywhere else I can start reading up on standard protocols for this (or a directory of photogs where I can read their terms and figure it out for myself!) I have to come up with my own pricing and since this is now outside my personal experience, I'm pretty clueless. Help!

Snowgirl

divamum wrote:

So my only paid shoot to date has been for performer headshots, where I had a good idea how to set things up and how to charge for it since I've been a CLIENT in that situation (I created two packages which I felt were appropriate to my level and gave the client leeway to tailor it to their budget.)

However, I've now been approached to shoot a young family (husband, wife and 1 year old son) and this means I need to understand how "normal" portrait sessions are charged, and how the print ordering process works since my understanding is that the session fee is lower, but print prices are NOT included and are much higher. Do they pick pictures from my gallery which I then have printed at my own expense and they pay me? Do they order from a smug gallery at my set price and then it's deducted by the order company and forwarded? Is hourly + print costs more typical for portraits?

Aargh. Point me to previous threads or anywhere else I can start reading up on standard protocols for this (or a directory of photogs where I can read their terms and figure it out for myself!) I have to come up with my own pricing and since this is now outside my personal experience, I'm pretty clueless. Help!

I rowed this boat a few months ago. The best help I got was from reading Best Business Practices for Photographers by John Harrington. It gives you formulas etc. for figuring out what you should charge given your market, your expenses and your business goals. Basically, there's no set way to do it.

My business model is a flat fee that includes a certain number of prints and the sitting fee with options to buy other sizes etc. That way I'm making the hourly wage that I need to support my business whether or not they buy any more prints - and they usually do.

Nikolai

divamum wrote:

So my only paid shoot to date has been for performer headshots, where I had a good idea how to set things up and how to charge for it since I've been a CLIENT in that situation (I created two packages which I felt were appropriate to my level and gave the client leeway to tailor it to their budget.)

However, I've now been approached to shoot a young family (husband, wife and 1 year old son) and this means I need to understand how "normal" portrait sessions are charged, and how the print ordering process works since my understanding is that the session fee is lower, but print prices are NOT included and are much higher. Do they pick pictures from my gallery which I then have printed at my own expense and they pay me? Do they order from a smug gallery at my set price and then it's deducted by the order company and forwarded? Is hourly + print costs more typical for portraits?

Aargh. Point me to previous threads or anywhere else I can start reading up on standard protocols for this (or a directory of photogs where I can read their terms and figure it out for myself!) I have to come up with my own pricing and since this is now outside my personal experience, I'm pretty clueless. Help!

It's *really* easy.
Would you do it for $10? Proilly not
Would you do it for $1,000? Prolly yes.
We got a base RANGE.
Now start dividing the range by two, adjusting the proper border.
You'll trim it down to an acceptable range in 2 minutes.

For me the basic rate for this type of work is about $100/hr plus $100 "setup" fee. So if it's a 1hr shoot (and I wouldn't expect anything longer with a little kid) it would be $200, 2hr shoot would be $300, etc. That's sitting fee + online/CD proofs + one or two "free" 8x10 prints and maybe some 4x6s. Any major printing/PP is extra..
Mind you, I'm in SoCal..:-)

sweet caroline

For print orders, they purchase through Smugmug. Smug takes the cost of printing and a cut of the profit and periodically mails a check. If they purchase the digital images, I set the print prices to default in their gallery. Of course, I don't mind my clients seeing the default print prices since they have an appreciation of the photographer's skills and know that they are paying for the service not the paper.

Caroline

Elaine

I think I'd rather work with the session fee being a bit higher and the print prices being not all that much. That way, you're sure to be paid for your work, whether or not they purchase many prints. But, I am really not one to be giving advice in this area!

Nikolai

sweet caroline wrote:

For print orders, they purchase through Smugmug. Smug takes the cost of printing and a cut of the profit and periodically mails a check. If they purchase the digital images, I set the print prices to default in their gallery. Of course, I don't mind my clients seeing the default print prices since they have an appreciation of the photographer's skills and know that they are paying for the service not the paper.

Caroline

FWIW I *never* sell any SM based stuff at a cost. If I need to do that I order/perint prints myself or send then a CD (which they will prolly lose in a couple of months anyway)

Cygnus Studios

Nikolai wrote:

FWIW I *never* sell any SM based stuff at a cost. If I need to do that I order/perint prints myself or send then a CD (which they will prolly lose in a couple of months anyway)

Same thing for me. I order the prints, review the prints then ship to the client.

Work out with the client what prints they want, how many they want, then add some $$$ for your time.
Here in the San Francisco bay, it will run between $150 and $200 for a few prints and an hour of time.

divamum

Great responses, guys -thanks.

Seems like maybe I should come up with something not disimilar in structure to the packages I devised for the heashots (one had prints included, one was a sitting fee + per edit charge), although perhaps slightly less since the shooting time will (likely) be shoter.

The thing I find hard at this stage of proceedings is that my "clients" are all personal friends and, while they're quite prepared to treat it as a paying gig, they also know I'm new at this and I don't feel that I should be charging them full market whack while using them as part of my own learning curve. Yes, I know - don't undervalue one's time, skill and enterprise.... BUT by the same token, one has to price oneself appropriately for the level. My longterm plan (assuming this develops into a more formal business than the handful of friends and acquaintances currently approaching me) is to progressively increase the fees over 2 years until they reach where I feel I "should" be in the market (rather than "entry level"). THis does not mean I'm trying to lowball, but that I"m thinking of it as a longterm development curve....

In any case, thanks for the ideas - this is really helpful! (and keep 'em coming - all thoughts warmly welcomed!)

Cygnus Studios

divamum wrote:

The thing I find hard at this stage of proceedings is that my "clients" are all personal friends and, while they're quite prepared to treat it as a paying gig, they also know I'm new at this and I don't feel that I should be charging them full market whack while using them as part of my own learning curve.

If they contacted any other photographer, would they be getting a break?
In the end, the client is paying for the results, not your name, experience, equipment, or anything else.
At some point you may be able to book clients based on the above criteria but the results are always what they pay for.
Quote your price and let the results justify that fee.

Nikolai

Cygnus Studios wrote:

If they contacted any other photographer, would they be getting a break?
In the end, the client is paying for the results, not your name, experience, equipment, or anything else.
At some point you may be able to book clients based on the above criteria but the results are always what they pay for.
Quote your price and let the results justify that fee.

Oh I disagree. Client *is* paying for the name, big time...

Cygnus Studios

Nikolai wrote:

Oh I disagree. Client *is* paying for the name, big time...

The name will book your job certainly, but will only continue to pay if the results are delivered.

Nikolai

Cygnus Studios wrote:

The name will book your job certainly, but will only continue to pay if the results are delivered.

Oh, no questions there. I was only referring to "brand recognition"...:-)

sweet caroline

Cygnus Studios wrote:

Same thing for me. I order the prints, review the prints then ship to the client.

Work out with the client what prints they want, how many they want, then add some $$$ for your time.
Here in the San Francisco bay, it will run between $150 and $200 for a few prints and an hour of time.

At this point, I don't have the time to go back and forth with clients about print orders (this is a part time venture for me), but I may change the way I do things if I expand and move to doing this full time. Keep in mind that all of my clients are people I know (I know a lot of people), or word-of-mouth through people I know. You can base your business model on what will work for you at this point in time, and tweak it later.

If you are worried about learning on their dime, you could offer to give them a free sitting and let them buy the photos if they like them. If you do that, go ahead and tell them your sitting fee. Then, tell them you'd like to give them the first sitting as a gift, and they only have to buy prints if they like the photos. Then you haven't locked yourself into always giving them the sitting for free.

Caroline

Nikolai

sweet caroline wrote:

At this point, I don't have the time to go back and forth with clients about print orders (this is a part time venture for me), but I may change the way I do things if I expand and move to doing this full time. Keep in mind that all of my clients are people I know (I know a lot of people), or word-of-mouth through people I know. You can base your business model on what will work for you at this point in time, and tweak it later.

If you are worried about learning on their dime, you could offer to give them a free sitting and let them buy the photos if they like them. If you do that, go ahead and tell them your sitting fee. Then, tell them you'd like to give them the first sitting as a gift, and they only have to buy prints if they like the photos. Then you haven't locked yourself into always giving them the sitting for free.

Caroline

First of all, you're coming hot. Relax...
Second, avoiding the sitting fee is the worst possible business idea one can come out with. It NEVER works. One can entertain it while starting out, but first few real life encounters should send this idea where it belongs - the business ideas graveyard...

divamum

Thanks everybody. This thread clarified my thinking on the subject, and I've put together a package that I think is right for this instance, and that can grow appropriately as/if I establish a reputation based on work delivered.

All input appreciated!