becoming a cut throat photographer?

Chile Chef

I've noticed over the past couples of weeks I've been getting more assertive with my photography, before I would stand around and wait for some one to move so I can get my shot, But now It's first come first server. My question to everyone here is this,

What would be a draw back to being a cut throat photographer? And I'm going to get some killer shots for my class which starts next week at nmc.


Wish me luck everyone.

Art Scott

Chile Chef wrote:

I've noticed over the past couples of weeks I've been getting more assertive with my photography, before I would stand around and wait for some one to move so I can get my shot, But now It's first come first server. My question to everyone here is this,

What would be a draw back to being a cut throat photographer? And I'm going to get some killer shots for my class which starts next week at nmc.


Wish me luck everyone.

Do you mean a pushy....I'll shove you face down in the dirt to get my shot kind of photog......or cut throat as I'll lower my prices to try and steal all the business I can whether or not I am any good???

There is nothing wrong with assertive as longas the ass doesn't come out .............too often.

Actually the answer is the same....you might get a few killer shots depending on what your shooting.....however in all my years of shooting concerts and such and almost always shooting from the audience side of the cattle guard fence....I never had to be anything but nice except for a couple of times that wqas protecting my gear from slimeball who grabbed the lens and jerk the camera.....he did not remember what hit him the next morning........

Something to remember........word of mouth travels faster than the speed of light........be "cut throat" andit could kill your future before it ever gets started............

Chile Chef

Neither, I wouldn't be that mean unless it's a man or a woman holding a camera phone or a point and shoot camera, I really dis like people thinking they're going to get awesome picture with just a stupid camera phone or a point & shoot!


But I'm always nice to the other REAL photo's, By the way Only people I will move for would be a little kid with his momma's iphone or what ever though.'

RogersDA

Chile Chef wrote:

I really dis like people thinking they're going to get awesome picture with just a stupid camera phone or a point & shoot!

I guess well-known Nature Photographer Marc Muench would be your arch-enemy then (as seen shooting Shenandoah with his Canon P&S).

Cygnus Studios

Chile Chef wrote:

Neither, I wouldn't be that mean unless it's a man or a woman holding a camera phone or a point and shoot camera, I really dis like people thinking they're going to get awesome picture with just a stupid camera phone or a point & shoot!

The best camera in the world won't make a person a good photographer. A good photographer can capture a great image with any camera. One of the greatest images that I have ever seen was taken with a cell phone camera.

Chile Chef

Cygnus Studios wrote:

The best camera in the world won't make a person a good photographer. A good photographer can capture a great image with any camera. One of the greatest images that I have ever seen was taken with a cell phone camera.

RogersDA,

Well when I first got into photography with a point and shoot, I think it was one of the first sony cyber shots, And where I was online everyone told me I should junk the camera and go slr "slr was still in use back in the day. But I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just want opportunities to open up to me in college.


For an example, I would ask the teacher if there was any photo ops, and she would say yes, She would recommend me and I could go to Madagascar for free, and that would be my payment,

Cygnus Studios, See above post mate.

Art Scott

Chile Chef wrote:

Neither, I wouldn't be that mean unless it's a man or a woman holding a camera phone or a point and shoot camera, I really dis like people thinking they're going to get awesome picture with just a stupid camera phone or a point & shoot!


But I'm always nice to the other REAL photo's, By the way Only people I will move for would be a little kid with his momma's iphone or what ever though.'

I was trying to invoke you to explain your original comment on being a cut throat and more assertive photog.......
As far as P/S go....I have seen great work, 2 pages in a book (print size is 12 18") done with a P/S.......there wAS a photog I believe he covered the Bosinian war and all he ever carried was 2 oly p/s one was a wide angle and the other a tele.....several mags did stories on him and his bare essential equipment...........

anywho.....EXPOUND on your original post.........

Chile Chef

Hi Art,

I'm not trying to be a jerk, freak or anything. I was just pointing out I really need to be come more assertive so that way I can have the opportunity thrown at me, and open the lot's of doors, I just want to step on peoples toes, Just to let them know I'm there and I will never leave!

Art Scott

Chile Chef wrote:

Hi Art,

I'm not trying to be a jerk, freak or anything. I was just pointing out I really need to be come more assertive so that way I can have the opportunity thrown at me, and open the lot's of doors, I just want to step on peoples toes, Just to let them know I'm there and I will never leave!

Kinda like that obnoxious drunk every likes at the local bar:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Don't step on toes.....just be there and be there early be classy no matter what............

as i said in 1st post.....I was always a nice guy.....at concerts I shot from the backsiode of the fence with the rest of the concert goers......all of a sudden security guards come and get you cause the performer wants to meet you ....then they start calling to have you at gigs....or if your at benefit functions and quetly do a few shots and sendto the beefits befactors and they can't recall seeing you there but some other person was being pushy and basically impolite to get shots (the hired gun) and you've made an impression by not being noticed.....
Then I started getting calls from promoters and business men/women for their various interest groups or just askling if you will have dinner on a Friday night........
Get noticed by not being noticed......Ninja style......quietly, unseen, unheard and deadly to the opposition.......

of course falling off a stage while shooting Charlie Daniels
get you noticed also:D

wadesworld

I really dis like people thinking they're going to get awesome picture with just a stupid camera phone or a point & shoot!

Look at Lisa Rhinehart's work:

http://www.lisarhinehart.smugmug.com/

If you look at the EXIF data, you'll see that a large number of her photos were taken with a point & shoot. Talent is talent.

I agree with Art - be nice. Nobody hires a photographer because they were assertive. They hire photographers for the quality of their work. Being a nice guy will just earn you extra business.

aktse

Chile Chef wrote:

Neither, I wouldn't be that mean unless it's a man or a woman holding a camera phone or a point and shoot camera, I really dis like people thinking they're going to get awesome picture with just a stupid camera phone or a point & shoot!'

And nothing is wrong with a cell phone camera either....

Chase Jarvis isn't too shabby in my book (and many people's book). Iphone only. processed with iphone.

Great photos are created by the person behind the lens -- ANY LENS --

Chile Chef wrote:

But I'm not trying to be a jerk, I just want opportunities to open up to me in college.

Remember -- attitude is everything and people have long memories. Opportunities open up by working hard, learning the craft, making connections, and spending time to understand the business side of things. Want opportunities? Make contacts, show an willingness to learn and be able to take critiques from others without becoming defensive.

P.S. You are coming across in this thread as harsh, ignorant and thick headed all within a handful of posts. You have basically insulted everyone who doesn't shoot with a dSLR, etc. Or, I can chalk that up as youth and inexperience…

Good luck with your cooking and photography.

Chile Chef

aktse, Like I said 'm sorry if I did.

I guess my posts have a small rant in them because I was trying to get some good angles and the people with the ps's knew this, but did nothing to get out of the way.



Art Scott, I'll take your advice sir, I'll go ahead and stay the way I am but with a little assertive added. I defenently can be a ninja, At a car show 2 weeks ago I was minding my own business, I was taking photo's of a blue 67 goat with a six pack, And then I started to take photo's of the band members the guy of the 67 goat saw me, we started talking and I have 2 photo shoots coming up with his goat and another car he has stored. I've told him these were not very good shots and I was doing them for my personal website "yada, yada, yada. He said those are some of the best for what I had to work with.



So you very well maybe onto something.



Ps.

I would like to apologize to everyone if I've said something "I'm normal not mean"

davev

I know the feeling, you spends thousands on cameras and lenses only to have some SOB with a P&S
jump in front of you while your getting your camera ready for a shot.

Get over it, cause that's life. It happens all the time.

You can let this bother you, or you can use it to learn to find new angles to shoot.
When I go shooting with a large group of people, I try to find a different spot to shoot from.
Get a shot that the swarm of others didn't. That's how I prefer to handle the crowd in front of me.

And to all the others in this thread that go on the sing the praises of P&S, I will trade you my
Sony 717 for all of your DSLR stuff. I mean, if there's no advantage to using a DSLR over a P&S,
why would you spend thousands on it?

It's nice to use the right tool, or even the better tool for the job you have ahead of you.
Show up as a wedding photographer with a P&S. I'll bet that would go over big.
Although I'll agree that P&S have come a long way, it's no substitute for a DSLR system.

I'm just saying.

Chile Chef

davev wrote:

I know the feeling, you spends thousands on cameras and lenses only to have some SOB with a P&S
jump in front of you while your getting your camera ready for a shot.

Get over it, cause that's life. It happens all the time.

You can let this bother you, or you can use it to learn to find new angles to shoot.
When I go shooting with a large group of people, I try to find a different spot to shoot from.
Get a shot that the swarm of others didn't. That's how I prefer to handle the crowd in front of me.

And to all the others in this thread that go on the sing the praises of P&S, I will trade you my
Sony 717 for all of your DSLR stuff. I mean, if there's no advantage to using a DSLR over a P&S,
why would you spend thousands on it?

It's nice to use the right tool, or even the better tool for the job you have ahead of you.
Show up as a wedding photographer with a P&S. I'll bet that would go over big.
Although I'll agree that P&S have come a long way, it's no substitute for a DSLR system.

I'm just saying.

Thank you Dave, That's kind my point, and I've been learning to finding new angles, even if I have to lay on the cold cold floor, ground where ever I am at the time, My photo's Gotten WAY better since I'm finally scratching the surface of my dlr camera,


I can see when a ps would come in handy if you want to grab a quick shot, if you can't afford the real thing,


However I bring 3 camera's to an event, I would bring 2 dlrs's and one slr to the event, show, family outing. So and O n!

denisegoldberg

Chile Chef wrote:

I guess my posts have a small rant in them because I was trying to get some good angles and the people with the ps's knew this, but did nothing to get out of the way.

I find it interesting that you keep repeating your statement that the folks with the point & shoot cameras "did nothing to get out of the way". That's an attitude that seems to persist through every comment you've made, in spite of the fact that everyone else has pointed out that talented photographers take wonderful photos with any camera they happen to have in their hands.

And you continue to say that the folks with the P&S did nothing to get our of your way. I really don't understand why you think they should have moved.

Chile Chef wrote:

I can see when a ps would come in handy if you want to grab a quick shot, if you can't afford the real thing.

What? a point and shoot is a real camera, and using one has nothing to do with not being able to afford a dSLR. Use of a point & shoot can be for much more than a quick shot. There's nothing that prevents you from composing a beautiful photo with a point & shoot.

I use both, and frankly, I'm offended by your attitude.

--- Denise

Chile Chef

denisegoldberg wrote:

I find it interesting that you keep repeating your statement that the folks with the point & shoot cameras "did nothing to get out of the way". That's an attitude that seems to persist through every comment you've made, in spite of the fact that everyone else has pointed out that talented photographers take wonderful photos with any camera they happen to have in their hands.

And you continue to say that the folks with the P&S did nothing to get our of your way. I really don't understand why you think they should have moved.

What? a point and shoot is a real camera, and using one has nothing to do with not being able to afford a dSLR. Use of a point & shoot can be for much more than a quick shot. There's nothing that prevents you from composing a beautiful photo with a point & shoot.

I use both, and frankly, I'm offended by your attitude.

--- Denise

Well Denise, You know where the ignore button is you can use it.

There will be people who will dislike me and there will be people who will like me, but it's all good.

Cygnus Studios

Chile Chef wrote:

I guess my posts have a small rant in them because I was trying to get some good angles and the people with the ps's knew this, but did nothing to get out of the way.

It sounds as if you believe that you have more of a right to shoot a particular scene because of the equipment that you use.

davev wrote:

I mean, if there's no advantage to using a DSLR over a P&S,
why would you spend thousands on it?

Because it makes the job easier. I don't know of any tool that works by itself.
My DL28 cost me 3 times what my D3 did, but still it requires my eye to capture the image. Could I capture the same image with a Coolpix, sure. It would just be harder to end up with the final results.

ChatKat

First come
I have found in all my years of business that being a "gentleman" will get me further in the long run. There is enough to go around. My reputation is more important.

As for being pushy, it might get you the shot but I can assure you that it will get you a negative reputation. People remember and the world is a lot smaller than you think.

We were just travelling by cruise ship. We sailed through the Golden Gate Bridge at 7am - beautiful light. Foggy silhouettes going in and the the sun peaked through. 1000 people with P&S cameras and maybe 25 dslr people including the ships photographers all vying for the same vantage points. Waiting a few minutes for those to get their snaps of the people they were with and off they went. A simple "Excuse me, give me your camera and let me take that shot for you" and then "May I get in for a few snaps?" yielded me a lot of kindness. If I'd elbowed my way in it wouldn't have been very polite and what we do collectively gives all of us a bad repuation as photographers.

Chile Chef

ChatKat,
Good on your trip and post the photo's in the journey section when you get ok mate?


Cygnus Studios
Because it makes the job easier. I don't know of any tool that works by itself.
My DL28 cost me 3 times what my D3 did, but still it requires my eye to capture the image. Could I capture the same image with a Coolpix, sure. It would just be harder to end up with the final results


Ok that might be a good point but how would you edit the bad image if you can't shoot in raw? Some camera's & most camera phones Only shoot in jpg, Yeah that's fine for your album or a scrapbook, but What if you needed to fix a major mistake? And it adobe photoshop or what ever else you use? I know that google is working on pisca and making it more user freindly for people who own camera phones, p&s camera's

davev

Cygnus Studios wrote:

Because it makes the job easier. I don't know of any tool that works by itself.
My DL28 cost me 3 times what my D3 did, but still it requires my eye to capture the image. Could I capture the same image with a Coolpix, sure. It would just be harder to end up with the final results.

If you included the line before and after what you quoted from me, you'd see that we're saying the same thing.
Way to take something out of context.

It may have come across that I agree with everything that Chile Chef wrote, I don't.
But for the most part, folks with a DSLR have a little more knowledge about not stepping in front of
others to get a shot.

I'm in Yellowstone, a moose and her calf are in the bogs getting ready to come out of thick stuff.
There are maybe 20 people standing, waiting for this to happen, people with DSLR's and P&S.
Then someone with something like a Sony P10 (very small camera that I own also) goes running by
and down towards the bogs. At this time, mom and calf head back into the thicker stuff and no one
gets a shot.

Was this a bad person? Probably not. It was just someone that didn't know any better.

I'm hoping that it was something similar to this that has CC POed.

It seems as I get older (50) the less common courteously or sense there is.
Whatever happened to getting your shot and moving out of the way for others to get one?
If I find a good spot, I'll call people over to tell them to try it from there.

Unless you're one of the Paparazzi, I can't see pushing and shoving is going to get you anything but trouble.

ChatKat

In regard to shooting RAW to fix the bas shots with a P&S.

Some of us shot film. The only fix to film is in a dark room or now you can scan it and use software

The whole idea of being a good photographer is gettting it right in the camera the first time. The idea isn't to go fixing it all in PhotoShop. That isn't photography.

Chile Chef

Chat, I have to Agree with you here mate.

The whole idea of being a good photographer is gettting it right in the camera the first time. The idea isn't to go fixing it all in PhotoShop. That isn't photography

But photo shop should only be the last resort, I,e fixing a crooked photo, People are not taking photography seriously these day's, It drives me nuts.

Here I am a college student who want's to learn the craft, actually use real camera's "Film" and dlsrs, People take photography like it's the thing of the past and that should be that way,




Anyways enough of my rant before I lose more potential friends.

Chile Chef

davev wrote:

If you included the line before and after what you quoted from me, you'd see that we're saying the same thing.
Way to take something out of context.

It may have come across that I agree with everything that Chile Chef wrote, I don't.
But for the most part, folks with a DSLR have a little more knowledge about not stepping in front of
others to get a shot.

I'm in Yellowstone, a moose and her calf are in the bogs getting ready to come out of thick stuff.
There are maybe 20 people standing, waiting for this to happen, people with DSLR's and P&S.
Then someone with something like a Sony P10 (very small camera that I own also) goes running by
and down towards the bogs. At this time, mom and calf head back into the thicker stuff and no one
gets a shot.

Was this a bad person? Probably not. It was just someone that didn't know any better.

I'm hoping that it was something similar to this that has CC POed.

It seems as I get older (50) the less common courteously or sense there is.
Whatever happened to getting your shot and moving out of the way for others to get one?
If I find a good spot, I'll call people over to tell them to try it from there.

Unless you're one of the Paparazzi, I can't see pushing and shoving is going to get you anything but trouble.

Your right mate, your line "I'm hoping that it was something similar to this that has CC POed." happened twice so I did something about I just got the best angle and I didn't even move until I was done.

Art Scott

Chile Chef wrote:

ChatKat,

Ok that might be a good point but how would you edit the bad image if you can't shoot in raw? Some camera's & most camera phones Only shoot in jpg, Yeah that's fine for your album or a scrapbook, but What if you needed to fix a major mistake? And it adobe photoshop or what ever else you use? I know that google is working on pisca and making it more user freindly for people who own camera phones, p&s camera's

The first DSLR's only shot jpg and were a mere 1mpx or smaller and with some work billboards were made and looked great......from proper viewing distance........

If one is a true wiz with photoshop they can work miracles with jps or if they are a wiz with Corel or other editing software......

I have shots from Cabelas in KC that look asif I am in the African Veldt....taken with a HP C200.....my current P/S is a Konica Minolta A2.....I have sold more photos from the A2 than any of my DSLR shots.......The A2 is my goto for landscpes and wildlife right now as I nver shoot in the f2.8 or lower any way outdoors..........

Asi posted earlier.....there are many pros carrying their fav P/S for their ONLY cam for their work........it is a matter of knowing how to use your gear.

Cygnus Studios

ChatKat wrote:

The whole idea of being a good photographer is gettting it right in the camera the first time. The idea isn't to go fixing it all in PhotoShop. That isn't photography.

Amen !
Not that I have anything against people who master photoshop. I wish that I knew more about post processing in the digital age. It would save me tons of set up time in the studio.
My photoshop skills are limited to cropping, merging, and my newly learned ability to create the Orton effect.
I knew far more editing skills in the darkroom than the digital darkroom. This forces me to think about composition, lighting, angles and getting the shot right the first time.

Chile Chef

Can some move this thread to mind your own business since it's turned more into a rant then a question?


And possible rename this thread to "P&S" verses DSLR'S"

lisarhinehart

this is too funny!!!!!!

wadesworld wrote:

Look at Lisa Rhinehart's work:

http://www.lisarhinehart.smugmug.com/

If you look at the EXIF data, you'll see that a large number of her photos were taken with a point & shoot. Talent is talent.

So I googled myself today to see if I "exist" yet, and low and behold, the first google match comes up-- it makes refrence to my smug account but is titled "becoming a cut throat photographer". I was wondering what I could be doing to be considered cut throat??? Nothing came to mind...

Then :ivar I read the post and was thrilled to death that I was an example of talent. It really made my day Wade, thanks. lol

I have changed some things on smug to hopefully get my site up as my first google hit-- lol Lisa

Vultor

Nothing But Nice
I have never had to be "assertive" while shooting. If someone is in your shot ask them to move. 95% of the time they realize you are a pro and will move. Looking down on people for what equipment they are using won't get you far either. My 16yo daughter gets killer shots with her 4mp point and shoot, and her cell phone for that matter. In fact I did some album cover style shots of her and her band with her p&s and they were great. It's the person not the equipment.

AAABluestocking

in regards to the P&S arguments vs the SLR, I think it boils down to opportunity. It's easier to take a good picture with an SLR of course but if you take a P&S everywhere with you it's more likely you'll be able to take advantage of an unexpected situation.

jogle

Cygnus Studios wrote:

The best camera in the world won't make a person a good photographer. A good photographer can capture a great image with any camera. One of the greatest images that I have ever seen was taken with a cell phone camera.

see my signature, it's been that way long before cell phone cameras existed

ChatKat

Equipment!
Oh I was just reminded about a trip I took in 2002 to Halifax Nova Scotia. We were going to Peggy's Cove to shoot. I had a brand new Canon G2 digital camera and I'd left my main camera - an Elan 7E home because I thought that I'd get some good shots with the 4mp camera. We were late for our transportation (we were on a cruise ship) and hurried out leaving the battery (we only had one!) behind. I got all the way out there so disappointed not to have a camera so I bought a disposable camera (film) that cost me $25.00. 15 Frames. Every image was better than the next and I have printed all of them from that day and that camera and sold several of those images.

It's not the camera.