Stick with Canon or go with Nikon?
I have a Canon Digital Rebel from 2004 and am in the market for a new (or used??) camera that is at least semi-pro. I have a very small photography business that I may consider trying to turn into a bigger business someday. The only Canon lens that I really have that I'd want to continue to use is my 50 mm/1.8 (my other two are the one that came with the camera and a cheap zoom lens). I have a flash that may or may not be working properly (350EX), so it's not like I have a ton of Canon things that would make me stick with Canon. I've been having issues with my Canon and thought the problem was with the flash (often doesn't fire properly, causing way underexposed shots), but the one diagnosis I've received so far is that the problem is with the camera underexposing shots and not always communicating properly with the flash. I do NOT want to have this issue with my next camera and THINK I've read more complaints about this happening with Canons than Nikons. I realize that whatever camera I get next will be the brand I'm married to for the rest of my life because I'd want to invest in nicer lenses, etc., so if I'm going to switch to Nikon, now would be the time! I'm just curious to see what everyone else thinks. If you recommend a certain brand, what camera do you recommend? I mostly take portraits, but am doing a wedding this summer, and may pursue doing more. Thanks!
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My reasons for thinking this way:
- It seems to me that Canon comes out with more newer technology faster than Nikon. To me this means that they are constantly trying to improve. (this is my "feeling")
- Canon lenses are cheaper by $200 - $300 typically. I compared the equivalent lenses recently from 50/1.8, 24-70/2.8, 70-200/2.8. I think this makes a big difference for me.
Some reasons I love Nikons:- I love how the controls are placed and the way they work. I hate that with Canons...starting with the on/off switch.
- i like rhe look of nikons
- i like how they fit in my hand
I think technically both systems are very capable though.WildViper
From Nikon D70s > Nikon D300s & D700
Nikon 50/1.8, Tamron 28-75/2.8 1st gen, Nikkor 12-24/4, Nikkor 70-200/2.8 ED VR, SB600, SB900, SB-26 and Gitzo 2 Series Carbon Fiber with Kirk Ballhead
However, Canon not only is cheaper on the high end lenses, but they have more lenses and more stepping up lenses.
For example, 50 1.8, 50 1.4, and 50 1.2. Similar for the 85.
Also 70-200 f4L, 70-200 f2.8L, 70-200 f4L IS, 70-200 f2.8 L IS.
Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
~ Gear Pictures
Flash recycle speed, if you don't wait for the flash to recycle, it will not fire.
Dirty connections, either on the flash contacts or the camera contacts.
Defective component, there could be an actual failure and only testing will rule out the guilty party.
I am partial to Canon, (I own a boatload of Canon equipment), but I would readily agree that Nikon is "equally" competent for "any" professional application, assuming the appropriate components.
One of the secrets to success with Canon flashes is the full understanding od how they work. I do believe that a Canon E-TTL II system is as competent as the Nikon i-TTL system once it is understood and used properly.
Things that are required to be E-TTL II complaint:
Camera body, E-TTL II capable
Flash, E-TTL II capable
Lens, with distance sensors
Anything less than these three things and you are not E-TTL II compliant.
Any of the current Canon dSLR cameras is compliant. All of the current Canon flashes are compliant, as are the Sigma EF 5xx DG Super flashes. Most of the current Canon zoom lenses are compliant and "some" of the primes.
Additionally, if you use the flash pointed up or to the side, it switches to E-TTL mode of operation (and loses the "II" compliancy.)
The reason for all of this is that the camera and flash need to be fully cooperative together, and the lens needs to have a distance sensor as that provides distance information to the camera, which is factored into the flash calculations. Some of the older Canon "crop" cameras did not cooperate with some of the flashes the fact that they were a crop camera and they would waste power, but they were still essentially E-TTL II compliant.
If, for instance, you were to purchase a Canon 50D (or 40D) camera, couple that with a Canon 580EX or 430EX flash, or one of the Sigma flashes that I mentioned, and then add a current zoom lens, say the EF-S 17-55mm, f2.8 IS USM, you would be fully compliant. You would also get excellent results as many of us do.
If you use the flash in a "bounce" configuration, either pointed up or to the side, you lose the "II" compliancy because the flash no longer has distance information on which to work. (The flash in a bounce configuration is bouncing off something and it is impossible for the flash and camera to know the light path, so it reverts to E-TTL operation instead.)
In this regard the Nikon i-TTL works exactly the same way and you should expect similar results.
In manual camera mode I do believe that the Nikons work a little differently and more automatically, where the Canon cameras allow more user control. This does confuse users, especially switching from one platform to the other.
For a more complete and comprehensive understanding of the Canon flash automation I will direct you to:
http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=70330
For information about the Nikon flash systems this is probably the best reference (that I am aware of):
http://www.bythom.com/flashguide.htm
To reiterate, the Nikon and Canon flash systems are very similar when they are used in certain modes, and a bit different in other modes. Until you understand how each works, you really should not try to decide which is appropriate for your purposes.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
Well I always point my flash up with a diffuser, so I don't get ETTL II, just ETTL. And as I said I have seen the nikons consistently handle the same shooting situations. I'm using all manual now and I don't like flash without a diffuser so I may never know.
Other Gear: Olympus E-PL1, Pan 20 1.7, Fuji 3D Camera, Lensbaby 2.0, Tamron 28-75 2.8, Alien Bees lighting, CyberSyncs, Domke, HONL, FlipIt.
~ Gear Pictures
Thank you so much for the very thorough reply. Here's more information about my problem: The flash worked beautifully for a while, then I started to occasionally have an issue with it. I would take a photo and the flash would fire, but the picture came out almost black. It almost seems like the flash is not firing at the correct time (can't remember if it's a little early or a little late), but the camera still adjusts the exposure as though the flash worked perfectly, hence the underexposure. I brought it into a camera shop, as per Canon's suggestion, to test out other flashes to determine if the problem was with the flash or the camera. The flash worked fine on other cameras and other flashes worked fine on my camera (I hope I'm remembering this correctly!). Also, when a new flash was used on my camera and compared to another camera (don't remember if it was another Rebel or other digital SLR), the photo came out with better exposure on the other camera than with mine, so by process of elimination, we determined the problem lies with the camera. The problem has only gotten worse and doesn't seem to stop when I remove the flash and reattach it, which used to appear to fix the problem in the past. I have also cleaned the contacts. It's a rather frustrating issue and can't be tolerated if I expect to shoot a wedding successfully. Thanks again for all of the info!
If your camera supports "second/rear curtain" sync I suggest trying that. Make absolutely sure that your shutter speed is at 1/200th or longer. I suggest shooting in manual mode to be absolutely certain.
If the problem continues, please post a link to a JPG with the problem with original EXIF (unprocessed) and we might see something that way.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
John,
Please start a new thread and post some links to examples of the problem which include full EXIF and I will try to help.
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
I have done some test shooting with some very nice Canon's and other than feeling incredibly funky in my hands, they produce some stunning images. The 1ds mark III produces some awesome colors right in the camera that I wish the Nikon reps would look at. While I am not convinced that the extra megapixels would help me today, I don't think that I would mind if Nikon boosted them up while keeping the extra clean high ISO.
Now for me to consider switching brands it would take a major sponsorship from Canon to replace all the glass in my lineup. Of course then I would have to recommend that everyone leave the darkside
It's not that I can be bought...but I can be rented for the correct price...
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I don't know how the canon system works, but I'm almost certain that Nikon i-TTL does NOT work like this, in regards to the position of the flash head having anything to do with how it works. Nikon speedlights fire a "monitor preflash" in order for the camera to judge exposure and then send the appropriate power setting to the flash for the actual shot. This means that it doesn't matter whether the flash is bounced off of something, direct, or even off camera fired through a softbox or umbrella. It doesn't matter how the light gets to the subject because the camera can judge how much light is getting through on the preflash and then use that information to pick the power level for the actual exposure.
I'm not sure what you meant by the last paragraph that I quoted, but I can certainly switch to manual, set aperture, shutter speed, ISO, WB, and flash power to the exact settings I want with no input whatsoever from the camera. I really don't know what you mean by saying that "Nikons work more automatically in manual mode"... manual is manual. You do it all yourself. You can enable auto ISO in manual mode but that's up to you. It's off by default as far as I can remember.
Since the OP mentioned doing mainly portraits, I will say that if you're using speedlights I think the Nikon system has a lot of advantages. Beyond whether one system works better (I really am not qualified to comment on that) there's the fact that all but the cheapest Nikon cameras allow you to control one or more groups of off camera speedlights wirelessly with your popup flash. This is built in so you don't have to buy anything extra, just your camera and a speedlight is all you need. As far as I know (correct me if I'm wrong) with canon you have to either have an extra speedlight or a transmitter unit on the camera to control a remote speedlight. This is a big deal for me, maybe not for you but I figured I'd mention it.
A couple other things that I've heard from canon users is that you are unable to do rear sync if using simple radio triggers (the rear sync signal is sent through one of the ettl pins, not the main pin that fires a radio trigger) and that the popup flash has no manual control, which is useful if you're using it to fire optical slaves.
http://blog.timkphotography.com
The Nikon i-TTL plus 3D Matrix metering is roughly equivalent to Canon's E-TTL II. The previous Nikon cameras, before the 3D Matrix metering, did not use distance information in the flash calculation. When the 3D Matrix metering was introduced it allowed more accurate flash metering with those lenses which report distance information back to the camera. Likewise, that is what the Canon E-TTL II does.
Canon E-TTL (without the "II") is like the Nikon i-TTL before the 3D Matrix metering. Both systems use a preflash to determine scene reflectivity and then incorporate that into the exposure calculation. Both systems will disregard the distance information in a bounce configuration.
According to Nikon:
"3D Matrix Metering
An exclusive Nikon feature, Matrix metering applies three types of data to calculate exposure: scene brightness, scene contrast and the focused subject’s distance (which requires the use of a D-type NIKKOR lens)."
(Emphasis mine)
http://www.nikonusa.com/Learn-And-Explore/Photography-Glossary/index.page
In a bounce configuration the distance cannot be known so the Nikon 3D Matrix metering will revert to the simpler reflectivity model for exposure (brightness plus contrast measured during preflash). Call it '3D Matrix metering' if you will.
BTW, Pentax P-TTL and Minolta ADI flash technologies work the same way. I am not sure about Olympus but I bet it's similar as Olympus has always been proficient in flash technology. (They invented the FP/HSS flash system to allow focal plane shutter cameras to use flash at shorter than sync speeds.)
I knew that would come back to haunt me.
What I mean is that I believe that the Nikon manual (camera) mode exposure system will coordinate more of the balance between flash and ambient exposure in a more uniform and predictable automated fashion. I believe that the Canon system is less calculating in manual mode and needs the user to balance the flash/ambient exposure somewhat more according to the situation. The Canon will still calculate the appropriate flash exposure but it does not factor in the ambient, allowing for more creative control but with more user responsibility.
This is one area where I do like the Nikon default settings better than Canon default settings. You can still get great results with Canon but they are usually not at default settings. (This is somewhat dependant upon ambient as the Canon cameras do seem to switch from fill to primary as the ambient light values change.)
Yes, I agree that having a flash "Commander" built-in to the camera makes a lot of sense and yes, it is a pain that you have to work-a-round those other issues. On balance, the Canon system is still quite serviceable and both Nikon and Canon are very competitive.
To Canon's credit, they use a very short pre-flash to main-flash duration. This means that most Canon cameras will not record "blinkers" or people with their eyes closed. In the Nikon system only the better and best cameras use a short preflash time so the lesser cameras may experience a higher rate of blinkers than Canon.
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=49394
Moderator of the Cameras and Accessories forums
With an EOS camera set to Manual Mode ( you choose the aperture, shutter speed and ISO, and the flash in ETTL or ETTL II, the flash will expose the subject in the foreground correctly ( even if the flash is bounced ) and the background will be exposed as determined by your chosen shutter speed and aperture. ( If it is bright out, you will need to shoot in HSS to allow a short enough shutter speed to avoid over exposure in this situation. This allows great creative control as you said. When shooting macro in HSS, you can even drive the background to black this way. I use this ability to separately light the forground and the background frequently as I did here
This is distinct from shooting in Av with and EOS flash in ETTL or ETTL-II, where the camera will choose as long a shutter speed as needed to expose the background via the ambient lighting, and expose the forground subject by quenching the flash at the appropriate time.
Moderator of the Technique Forum and Finishing School on Dgrin