Shoot this...punk

jandrewnelson

I've got a first coming up.

A punk rock band here in Asheville NC wants me to take some pics of them performing. The pics are to be used on their website as well as some print advertising.

The band will be performing in a typical dark bar. No flash allowed (I don't think).

Anyone have experience shooting bands in dimly lit bars?

Thanks and blessings
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com

pwp

Double check on the flash. But if you are allowed to use it, you'll need to be careful that you don't overdo it and blow the ambience of the scene - you want that dark stage/stage light/gels look for band shots. Otherwise, fast glass, crank the ISO, and get as close as you can (and backstage shooting from the wings gives some cool perspective). Try to time the shots with any onstage lighting hitting the band members. It's tricky, but can be done. GL!

Jeremy Winterberg

Art Scott is pretty good with stage shoots, hopefully he'll stop by and help out, but if not PM him.

I agree with everything that pwp said. Find out for sure if flash can be used... meaning - talk to bar where the concert is at. Fast glass, High ISO, and good timing is all you can do otherwise .. I hope you have good noise reduction software

jandrewnelson

[quote=I hope you have good noise reduction software [/quote]

Have no noise reduction software. Everything that folks here recommend is out of my league in terms of $$$ available. AND I haven't found any good free stuff.

Any ideas/thoughts?

Blessings
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com

Jeremy Winterberg

jandrewnelson wrote:

Have no noise reduction software. Everything that folks here recommend is out of my league in terms of $$$ available. AND I haven't found any good free stuff.

Any ideas/thoughts?

Blessings
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com

Well, being the low budget photographer I am, Imagenomic's Noiseware Community Edition is free, and works alright... Or you can pay $34.95 for Noise Ninja Home Standalone which is amazing and everyone highly recomends it.

You'll get better results with Noise Ninja, but if you truely do not have $35 just use the noiseware community edition or the built-in noise reduction software in Photoshop or Lightroom (which I hope you have as well, if not you should get one of those [pref photoshop] before you get any noise reduction software).

Toshido

Only went out once and took pics of a stage show, a drag show of all things. i use close with a 50mm F/1.4 and used flash with an FEC of -2. Some minor tweaking in Lightroom and I was happy with results. You can see pictures and check out the Exif info on my gallery.

http://tag-photos.smugmug.com/gallery/8363473_m9r5G#550466109_a2JMK

Toshido

I should also mention this was a small club, black curtains behind the stage and everything painted black, but still very small.
I was able to bounce my flash shots. No modifiers or diffusers. I think a scoop or lightsphere thing would have worked nicely though.

pwp

Toshido wrote:

I should also mention this was a small club, black curtains behind the stage and everything painted black, but still very small.
I was able to bounce my flash shots. No modifiers or diffusers. I think a scoop or lightsphere thing would have worked nicely though.

I second this! After purchasing noise reduction SW, invest $40 in a Gary Fong lightsphere. It's become one of my favorite gadgets. It'll reduce your shadow casts and help prevent that "flat" look you often get from the flash and dark backgrounds such as a stage.

Do you know what kind of lighting setup the band is going to have on stage?

Art Scott

jandrewnelson wrote:

I've got a first coming up.

A punk rock band here in Asheville NC wants me to take some pics of them performing. The pics are to be used on their website as well as some print advertising.

The band will be performing in a typical dark bar. No flash allowed (I don't think).

Anyone have experience shooting bands in dimly lit bars?

Thanks and blessings
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com

What are you shooting with? (camera, lenses and so forth)

Do you shoot raw?

From here I can tell you how I would probably shoot the gig.

edit: went to look at your profile and all i see under is Lumix......Panasonic makes good quipment......but I do not think their lowlight/ high ISO is any where near Nikon or /canon.....even my Konica Minolta is not as good as these 2......

jandrewnelson

Art Scott wrote:

What are you shooting with? (camera, lenses and so forth)

Do you shoot raw?

From here I can tell you how I would probably shoot the gig.

Panasonic Lumix LZ28. Sorry, but it's all I have. No $$$ to get better/fancier equipment. I experimented tonight and shot a blues band in similar lighting conditions. The link to that gallery is: http://www.journeyamerica.org/gallery/8539810_6PdGh/1/562949824_hPUP3

Someone recomended that I use noiseware community edition since it's free. I just downloaded it today and have been playing around with it...still have a learning curve on it though.

thanks for the help, and blessings!
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com

jogle

If you're going to be using a flash, get it off the camera with a cable or some other wireless transmitter. even held at arms length it'll give much better shape to your subjects and lead to much more interesting photos.

If you've got access to more then one flash then talk to the band about putting one in the lighting rig above the stage, behind the drummer or something like that.

Failing that rent or borrow some very fast glass. If you're shooting with Canon get a 35mm f1.4, 50mm f1.4 or 85mm f1.2

Art Scott

jandrewnelson wrote:

Art Scott wrote:

What are you shooting with? (camera, lenses and so forth)

Do you shoot raw?

From here I can tell you how I would probably shoot the gig.

Panasonic Lumix LZ28. Sorry, but it's all I have. No $$$ to get better/fancier equipment. I experimented tonight and shot a blues band in similar lighting conditions. The link to that gallery is: http://www.journeyamerica.org/gallery/8539810_6PdGh/1/562949824_hPUP3

Someone recomended that I use noiseware community edition since it's free. I just downloaded it today and have been playing around with it...still have a learning curve on it though.

thanks for the help, and blessings!
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com

Can you link me to the specs on that camera??

You blues singer shots are not to bad and I am going to say it is camera that kept you from getting great shots....did they only have red lights....no blue or anythihng else???

Jeremy Winterberg

Well, I tried to search for your camera, and I cannot find it ... But the other Lumix LZ series cameras are just Point and Shoots...

if thats the case, then thats one thing you need to work on. Getting an actual DSLR camera is step 1.

I looked at your blues band pictures, and it backs my point and shoot theory. Your camera cannot handle low light photography. Although they were alright, they are no where near good enough to accept money for the gig(if getting paid was in the contract).

I may sound a bit negative, but its my opinion... that doesn't mean you actually have to listen to it.

jandrewnelson

Art Scott wrote:

jandrewnelson wrote:

Can you link me to the specs on that camera??

You blues singer shots are not to bad and I am going to say it is camera that kept you from getting great shots....did they only have red lights....no blue or anythihng else???

Here's one link to the specs.

http://www.macmall.com/ttsvr/p/5098036?dpno=7671033&source=MWBgooglebase

Thanks for the help!

Blessings
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com

Haakon

oh man ... your camera is simply not up for it and cannot be used in low light situations. You should have a camera that can take decent pictures at high iso's like Nikon D300 along with a prime lens, the all beloved Nikon 50 mm f1.8 or the Nikon 85 mm f1.8. More expensive glass could also be used, but with no or little gain in image quality. As previously mentioned you should also have a noise reduction software. I had a brief look at your example pic's and altough the scenes looked ok, the quality of the images were with one simple word; bad. For your all well being do not make and charges... please, or even better, cancel the job. You may think I'm hard on you, but frankly I'm trying to help you.

Art Scott

so in reality you will want to shoot in RAW mode....you may neeed to up the iso to 800 or even 1600.....use the AF tracking to help with keeping subjects in focus.....that is about all I can do not actually knowing the camera.....
To process the raw files...you will want to download some FREE WARE...the Gimp and do a google for FREE RAW CONVERTERS and find one to downloard. This will give you what you hve to have for free.

Art Scott

this is not entirely true.......I have witnessed 2 concert shooters...shooting the same concert with P/S cameras.......1 shooter shot for the Black Star agency and the other Magnum......so it can be done ........ Also there was the war photog that carried only OLy P/S cameras
can't remeber his name but one was the Wide angle and the other was his tele model.............

Haakon wrote:

oh man ... your camera is simply not up for it and cannot be used in low light situations. You should have a camera that can take decent pictures at high iso's like Nikon D300 along with a prime lens, the all beloved Nikon 50 mm f1.8 or the Nikon 85 mm f1.8. More expensive glass could also be used, but with no or little gain in image quality. As previously mentioned you should also have a noise reduction software. I had a brief look at your example pic's and altough the scenes looked ok, the quality of the images were with one simple word; bad. For your all well being do not make and charges... please, or even better, cancel the job. You may think I'm hard on you, but frankly I'm trying to help you.

Haakon

I can agree on the fact that it may be done, but I don't think the result will be any better than shown on the example pic's. The camera has 10.2 MP that is squeezed on to a tiny little sensor which in itself indicates noise in low light. In addition the camera will have a max aperture that is pherhaps two stops away of f1.8. I've done some concert shooting and I usually end up using ISO 1600 at f1.8. In this same condition the Lumix LZ something would be shooting at ISO 6400 ..

And flash ? forget it. You simply don't use flash for concert shooting.

jandrewnelson

Art Scott wrote:

this is not entirely true.......I have witnessed 2 concert shooters...shooting the same concert with P/S cameras.......1 shooter shot for the Black Star agency and the other Magnum......so it can be done ........ Also there was the war photog that carried only OLy P/S cameras
can't remeber his name but one was the Wide angle and the other was his tele model.............

Thanks everyone for the input, tips and pointers!

Blessings
Jerry Nelson
www.meesoon.smugmug.com

Dave P

Jerry:

Keep us posted on how things turn out.

I get this funny feeling you will get the best out of everything you are using.

Dave

jandrewnelson

Dave P wrote:

Jerry:

Keep us posted on how things turn out.

I get this funny feeling you will get the best out of everything you are using.

Dave

Will do. Thanks for the kind words and keep me in your prayers!

Jerry Nelson
www.Meesoon.Smugmug.com

Art Scott

Dave P wrote:

Jerry:

Keep us posted on how things turn out.

I get this funny feeling you will get the best out of everything you are using.

Dave

The main thing is to practice.....practice.....practicethumb

squiddy

I've not had great experiences shooting at punk and rock shows. If you do go... watch out. Small kids in tight pants throwing elbows into anything that moves. If you can get in front or on stage i would or stand far back.

I went to a small venue for a coworkers band 2 weeks ago and almost lost my camera to some A$$ clowns moshing EVERYWHERE. That's when i decided this is a favor and i don't care it's not worth risking my gear so i only got a few shots and called it a night.

jogle

You'd be suprised at how easy it is to walk onto the stage or climb up beside or behind a tower of speakers at smaller venues. Walk like you're meant to be there, give a head nod and a casual "Hi how's it going" to the sound guy or who ever's backstage. Invariably the club owner is going to come over and ask who you are or who you're shooting for (funnily enough they act like they own the place) It's at that point you shake their hand, say "Hi I'm James, *insert band members name* asked me to come and shoot some photos for their promo. Give me your card and I'll send you some proofs" Their response will range from "you should have/the band should have come and talked to me first" to "ok, just be careful of those cables" but it's also surprisingly rare to be tossed out.

If you get their card you can also use it as a business oppertunity, or for comped tickets and drinks if you're just treating it as a hobby.

Toshido

Coming from a different perspective. i worked security for 4.5 years at a club that does some pretty large shows.

Security is at the stage and all doors heading back there. Not impossible to walk past them but not the wisest thing to attempt. We always had passes for people that are supposed to be back there as well. In addition to that people that have passes, sometimes, can bring people backstage or to staff only areas.

Like otherwise said though, don't worry about being caught where you are not supposed to be. Be polite and do as you are told. You will likely be told you are not allowed in that area and escorted out of the restricted area.

I have worked a punk show before. Yes the kids are crazy, but generally polite and nice. Much nicer than they look
Go have fun. Longer glass and staying away from the stage is my suggestion to keep away from moshers. Maybe hang out with security. They are also generally friendly and depending on location bored. Concerts are not fun to work at, no fights, so maybe you could get a guy to help watch for incoming bodies

At least that is what I would be doing.

squiddy

Toshido wrote:

I have worked a punk show before. Yes the kids are crazy, but generally polite and nice. Much nicer than they look

Yeah I haven't run into any mean kids at shows, just a little bit crazy and wild taking up the entire venue floor space to mosh. Very small venue though, 1 security person also handling the door busy guy. Gotta make due with what you have.

jogle

Sounds like a fun little venu to shoot in then, introduce youself to the bouncer, say what you're doing, and ask if there's any good spots to shoot from. He'll then likely look out for you for the rest of the night.

Diamond D

This the situation I find myself in for most of my concert shooting, dim clubs with barely any lighting from the front of the stage. The high-ISO ability of the Nikon D80 is pretty poor in terms of noise in my opinion, so I stay at ISO400, f/2 on my 50mm/1.8, and a shutter speed around 1/90 seems to be sufficient for reasonably sharp shots. This exposes for the highlights, while giving a dark atmosphere behind the band which I personally like.

My tips are to stay zoomed out wide to keep your f stop as low as possible, then get physically close and fill the frame with the image you want when you shoot, the less you have to crop when you get home, the better your IQ will be, this is especially a big deal in keeping visible ISO noise down.



Honestly, if they want bright well-lit promo shots, you're probably better off doing a shoot with them outside somewhere during the day or at dusk before the concert, maybe before or after soundcheck. But you can absolutely get some cool live shots without flash in a dark club, just be creative!

http://diamondd.smugmug.com/Concerts

Haakon

I've made a couple of previos replies on the original topic. That is to shoot concert pictures with a p/s camera. You can do it with something like Leica Digilux, but not with the camera with the spec's as shown ... some recapture:
- 10.2 MP squezeed down on a sensor with a crop factor
of close to 6.
- A lens with a 18X zoom
- Max aperture f2.8

The good thing is that is has f2.8, but with a crop factor of 6 you're doomed...and your lens .. in short: your equipment needs light. Nikon D300 has a factor of 1.5 and with a prime lens (f1.8 50 mm or f1.8 85 mm) it is possible and you may get some decent shots. But even so, the pros are using full frame cameras with a factor of 1.0. And seriously, if you're going to make charges you should at least have the gear to justify any possible charges. Follow my advice and tell them what's written on the shirt ...