Standard Photo Release

timberline12k

I take photos at my son’s swim meets and several parents have asked me to take photos of their kids as well. Since it is difficult to identify team members, I take photos of anyone wearing the team swim trunks. I then place the photos on my SmugMug web site so parents can find the photos of their kids and order prints without a photographer’s markup. Note: The website does include a donate button to help defray the cost of the website.

I do have the gallery password protected, but one parent has suggested I need a release from all parents. I have offered to remove any photos upon request. They just need to send me the file number (date-file number) which is the only identification on each photo.

Is there some standard release form I can include to deal with this? Can it be incorporated into the web site?

My web site is www.diddephoto.com The photos in the unprotected gallery Sports>Aquinas Swim 09 are representative of the type of photos.

Angelo

timberline12k wrote:

...but one parent has suggested I need a release from all parents...

wrong!

this topic has been discussed dozens of times. please use our SEARCH feature to read earlier threads about this matter.

timberline12k

I read the material available at the following link prior to posting this question.

http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html#8.5

I still think I need some disclaimer on my site. Can I just provide the link to the material or legal ruling? I would feel more comfortable by acknowledging the parent's concern and communicating that I don't need a release. Having a disclaimer on the site that states photos are not used for commercial use would be a simple way to resolve this. For more information please click here (link to best reference).

I was also confused after reading the following two posts which suggests I do need a release:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=10355&highlight=release%3F

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=127462&highlight=kids+release

Photog4Christ

timberline12k wrote:

I read the material available at the following link prior to posting this question.

http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html#8.5

I still think I need some disclaimer on my site. Can I just provide the link to the material or legal ruling? I would feel more comfortable by acknowledging the parent's concern and communicating that I don't need a release.

I was also confused after reading the following post which suggests I do need a release:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=10355&highlight=release%3F

See ASMP's site.

From ASMP:

Q: How do I know when I need a model release? A: The answer to this question can be reached by asking a series of questions about the subject and the use of the photograph. A model release is needed from each person whose likeness appears in a photograph that is used for advertising or trade (business) purposes when the person is identifiable. Look at the photograph and the person(s) in it and ask these questions:
1. Could the person in the photograph be recognized by anyone? Be warned: It is very easy for a person to show in court that he or she is recognizable.

If the answer to question #1 is No, then you do not need a release.

2. Is the photograph to be used for an advertisement? (In law, “advertisement” is broadly defined.)
3. Is the photograph going to be used for commercial business purposes, like a brochure, calendar, poster, web site or other use that is intended to enhance a business interest?

If the answers to question #2 and question #3 are both No, then you do not need a release.

Otherwise, the answer is that you do need a model release.

Also from ASMP:

Q: If I photograph a large group of people and plan to sell the picture, would I need model releases from every person?
A: If you just want to sell fine art prints, or even posters, you should be OK without releases. If you license the picture for use in a book, you should be OK without any releases as long as you don’t allow the publisher to put the photo on the cover of the book or use it in promotional materials.
But if you put it on coffee mugs or allow its use in any way that would be considered purposes of trade or advertising, you are probably going to be liable for the invasion someone’s right of privacy unless you have gotten releases from every person who is recognizable in the photo. A bank once made a photo of about 300 of its own employees standing in one of its lobbies. When the picture ran in an ad campaign, some of the employees sued the bank, and won.

I once went to a concert where they were filming the entire concert to be released on a DVD as a special live edition of the concert. They had signs all over the stadium stating that filming was going to be occurring and that remaining gives your permission to use your image in the video. It also said that anyone that did not agree can receive a refund of their ticket price and leave. They also made a verbal announcement prior to the concert beginning. The announcement was greeted by applause and cheers from everyone in attendance.


At weddings: My attorney said this. That I must get BOTH the Bride and the Groom to sign a model release. The guests are not required to sign a release because it is expected that a photographer would be at a wedding, so there is an "expected loss of privacy".


Of course, I'm not an attorney, so my advice would be to seek legal counsel.

timberline12k

I checked out the ASMP site. What if I answer yes to #1 and no to #2 and #3?

ASMP quote
Q: How do I know when I need a model release?
A: The answer to this question can be reached by asking a series of questions about the subject and the use of the photograph. A model release is needed from each person whose likeness appears in a photograph that is used for advertising or trade (business) purposes when the person is identifiable. Look at the photograph and the person(s) in it and ask these questions:
1. Could the person in the photograph be recognized by anyone? Be warned: It is very easy for a person to show in court that he or she is recognizable.

If the answer to question #1 is No, then you do not need a release.

2. Is the photograph to be used for an advertisement? (In law, “advertisement” is broadly defined.)
3. Is the photograph going to be used for commercial business purposes, like a brochure, calendar, poster, web site or other use that is intended to enhance a business interest?

If the answers to question #2 and question #3 are both No, then you do not need a release.

Otherwise, the answer is that you do need a model release.



I would like to place the following disclaimer in my password protected galleries:

Based on the information available at the following link it appears I do not need a release from each parent. http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html#8.8 Therefore the ability to order prints is enabled again.

Photog4Christ

timberline12k wrote:

I checked out the ASMP site. What if I answer yes to #1 and no to #2 and #3?


Q: How do I know when I need a model release?
A: The answer to this question can be reached by asking a series of questions about the subject and the use of the photograph. A model release is needed from each person whose likeness appears in a photograph that is used for advertising or trade (business) purposes when the person is identifiable. Look at the photograph and the person(s) in it and ask these questions:
1. Could the person in the photograph be recognized by anyone? Be warned: It is very easy for a person to show in court that he or she is recognizable.

If the answer to question #1 is No, then you do not need a release.

2. Is the photograph to be used for an advertisement? (In law, “advertisement” is broadly defined.)
3. Is the photograph going to be used for commercial business purposes, like a brochure, calendar, poster, web site or other use that is intended to enhance a business interest?

If the answers to question #2 and question #3 are both No, then you do not need a release.

Otherwise, the answer is that you do need a model release.

Well, #1 says if you answer "no" you do not need a release. It doesn't say "If 'yes' you DO need a release".

But, you're asking a forum full of photographers. That's why I said to seek legal counsel.

Cygnus Studios

Also keep in mind that while you may not need a release, the parents can still cause you aggravation. Yes you can defend your actions and that you are perfectly within the law, but being right doesn't make the situation better.

Check with the facility that holds the meets. They could very well have a clause in the agreement that includes photography.

Toshido

First before taking pictures of other people or events and posting them publicly you should at least do some research into the related laws. Just so you have a clue.

My initial kneejerk reaction to a parent with a claim like that would be less than polite. After all you are providing quality pictures at cost of the print. I recently determined that it costs me a penny every time I press the shutter, and that is just for the shutter...

Anyways polite is definitely the right way to deal with it though.

It is truly amazing at the ignorance of the general public though.

I have had an employee at the YMCA explain to me that if they allowed cameras into the building they would need to get model releases for everyone in the building....
I have had people argue that since they are in the picture it belongs to them...
Finally I have had people say that since the objects in the picture belong to them the picture belongs to them....

Angelo

Toshido wrote:

I have had an employee at the YMCA explain to me that if they allowed cameras into the building they would need to get model releases for everyone in the building...

In this instance you are inside a private establishment where others have a reasonable expectation of privacy so snapping away inside would be an infringement and any use of said photographs could be grounds for action.

bkatz

Having had a parent be agravated - you definitely have a kneejerk reaction - the trick is to wait an hour before responding - be polite and remove the pictures.

This parent threaten legal action and demanded I remove the pictures since he had not signed a release - and even though they were password protected it didn't mean anything (Despite the fact that the coach was handing out the cards with the password to the parents).

Pictures were removed within an hour of receiving the email identifying the child involved although it was difficult since the parent thought I should know the name of the child and be able to identify them. Took a lot of work on my part and they were some of the best pictures of that game but it is always easier to remove the pictures then get in the argument in the first place.

Customer is almost always right - even when they are wrong. Good news is that it was a non-team picture game otherwise it would have been a real issue for the team....

Toshido

Angelo wrote:

In this instance you are inside a private establishment where others have a reasonable expectation of privacy so snapping away inside would be an infringement and any use of said photographs could be grounds for action.

Almost....

From my research into Canadian law that is close but not quite right.

i am not allowed to take pictures in the YMCA because it is private property and I have been told photography is not allowed. not because of a reasonable assumption of privacy.
in the changerooms, absolutely. In a pool with a glass wall leading into the cafeteria area, and another glass wall looking outside an assumption of privacy would not be reasonable.
That said I could go into there and take pictures. I could keep the pictures and so on. The downside to that is I would then be trespassing and the establishment could take proper steps against me, right up to arresting me on the spot.
Although here I am not worried about that either. Until a written warning about trespassing is given it is very hard to lay trespassing charges on a person. i ran into that a few times working as loss prevention and actually arresting people and issuing the trespass warnings.

of course laws vary by region and most certainly by country.

Toshido

bkatz wrote:

Having had a parent be agravated - you definitely have a kneejerk reaction - the trick is to wait an hour before responding - be polite and remove the pictures.

This parent threaten legal action and demanded I remove the pictures since he had not signed a release - and even though they were password protected it didn't mean anything (Despite the fact that the coach was handing out the cards with the password to the parents).

Pictures were removed within an hour of receiving the email identifying the child involved although it was difficult since the parent thought I should know the name of the child and be able to identify them. Took a lot of work on my part and they were some of the best pictures of that game but it is always easier to remove the pictures then get in the argument in the first place.

Customer is almost always right - even when they are wrong. Good news is that it was a non-team picture game otherwise it would have been a real issue for the team....

Of course you did the right thing even though, from my understanding, they did not have a leg to stand on. Legally speaking of course.

bkatz

It is almost always easier to do what the customer wants. Especially in a case like this. They certainly were not going to buy the photos from me so the only harm in taking them down would be if someone else was in the shot.

It would have cost more money for me to defend myself even if I was right then to just take them down.

I can tell you in another situation where I had a similar issue the parent came and talked to me before he game and after talking with them they blessed me taking the pictures and commented at a later game that they were very happy with them.

Cygnus Studios

bkatz wrote:

It would have cost more money for me to defend myself even if I was right then to just take them down.

Exactly. My lawyer charges the same amount whether I am right or wrong. Barring a once in a lifetime shot, it is easier to move on to the next one.

wadesworld

Toshido wrote:

Almost....

From my research into Canadian law that is close but not quite right.

i am not allowed to take pictures in the YMCA because it is private property and I have been told photography is not allowed. not because of a reasonable assumption of privacy.
in the changerooms, absolutely. In a pool with a glass wall leading into the cafeteria area, and another glass wall looking outside an assumption of privacy would not be reasonable.
That said I could go into there and take pictures. I could keep the pictures and so on. The downside to that is I would then be trespassing and the establishment could take proper steps against me, right up to arresting me on the spot.
Although here I am not worried about that either. Until a written warning about trespassing is given it is very hard to lay trespassing charges on a person. i ran into that a few times working as loss prevention and actually arresting people and issuing the trespass warnings.

of course laws vary by region and most certainly by country.

Agree with Toshido. A YMCA is private property, but a public place open to members and their guests. As long as you fit within one of those two categories, you can take pictures in public areas. You cannot take pictures in non-public areas (like administrative offices) or prohibited areas (like locker rooms).

The YMCA staff can ask you to stop taking pictures at any time, and when they do, you must comply. They can also eject you from the premises. However, they cannot force you to take down your pictures, delete pictures or confiscate your camera.

However, with all that said, the YMCA is certainly going to have problems with you using their facilities to conduct business and are guaranteed to be ignorant of the law and will likely side with any parent that complains. Therefore, it'd be far better to go sit down with the YMCA management and work out an arrangement before attempting to do any more shooting there - unless you're just shooting your own child for personal keepsakes.

timberline12k

I emailed all the parents and provided background information on photo releases. All the parents who responded were surprised there was an issue and really appreciated the ability to obtain great photos of their kids from my photo sharing site. By the way, the swim meets rotate around at different country clubs. As you look around the pool at any given time there will be a dozen parents taking video or photos.

I still went ahead and placed the following at the top of my protected galleries:
Photo Release Information: http://www.danheller.com/model-release.html#8.8

I haven't heard back from the original parent that raised the question, but I did find out this parent has a history of telling other people what they are doing wrong and how to do it right.

I reiterated my offer to all parents that I would be happy to remove any photos if someone doesn’t what their families photos on my web site. No one has asked me to remove any photos, but I have received a few more $5 donations.

David