Event questions

kds1 · June 26, 2009

Hi,

I'm not quite sure where to post this, but those of you who do events, such as anniversaries, how many photos do you typically shoot and how long does it take you to edit them and get them to the client? I did my first event on June 13, took about 385 photos and am STILL working hours and hours on editing them! I'm not sure how anyone makes money at this rate . . . .

Thanks for any comments you'd care to make!

Kara

ChatKat · June 26, 2009

Editing?
First you learn to get it right in the camera so you only need to maybe do a quick crop and adjust the color a bit. You charge for editing anything beyond that by selling prints and more and either including it or you charge extra for it. You learn to use actions and presets. The most important thing is getting it right in the camera without needing editing. I did 900 photos on Saturday at a wedding; deleted 300 duplicates (shooting for insurance of important moments) and then took out another 150 of images that were blinking eyes, bad expressions, people who moved into the frame or images that just didn't work for storytelling. None of the images needed anything else until the client buys prints, albums or other products. When that happens I will go in and clean up eyes, skin and remove a few other things. 6 hours of shooting and 6 hours of editing on that one.

kds1 · June 26, 2009

ChatKat wrote:

None of the images needed anything else until the client buys prints, albums or other products. When that happens I will go in and clean up eyes, skin and remove a few other things. 6 hours of shooting and 6 hours of editing on that one.

Oh! Ok. I was doing all that now. How does the client know if they want them or not if they are not cleaned up? You just tell them that you will do that after they choose the images they want?

And big time yes on getting it right in the camera the first time! I was having lighting issues. The house was very, very dark and then it was an extremely bright sunny day outside. And then the walls in the restaurant were all yellow, which made all the people yellow. I'm new at this, so I had some trouble making the camera adjustments.

Also, there are several photos that I am finding I want to do more with them - pencil art, painting the photos, etc. More creative stuff in other words.

Many thanks for your suggestions!

ChatKat · June 26, 2009

Lots of practice...learn to light so you don't have to correct later. Learn to compensate for color. It takes a lot of work to get there. And just when you think you have it down, you will start seeing new things to learn to get even better.

mmmatt · June 26, 2009

ChatKat wrote:

None of the images needed anything else until the client buys prints, albums or other products. When that happens I will go in and clean up eyes, skin and remove a few other things. 6 hours of shooting and 6 hours of editing on that one.

I don't do it this way but I don't do a lot of extensive touch-ups either. I just did a 50th anv party 2 weeks ago and shot for about 2-3 hrs. I started with some family group portraits then shot candids during the cocktail hour After that, the couple and their family members did speeches and songs and whatnot. I shot about 400 photos and will deliver about 280 on Monday. I put 2 weeks in my contracts and always make that happen, in this case he couldn't meet with me until Monday.

In the case of this shoot, I spent about 1 day converting raw files and then I hand-pick the shots that I want to make creative adjustments on or that need cloning and whatnot, and had about a half day into that. The half day in PS was mostly because we shot the group stuff in the main room and people were running around setting things up so I was cloning waiters and bartenders out of some shots. The group shots I did a little work on the Mrs.'s face and arms because I know those are the critical ones and the rest I don't do any touchups unless it is really bad. I deliver most shots strait out of camera raw, and I ran some actions for about 30 more images to artsy them up a bit or to convert to b&w. I only recently started doing much of anything in photoshop... I did 99% of my image work in camera raw until I started playing with actions.

Kat is right about getting it right in camera... that is the biggest key. The better you learn to compose, see light, use flash and operate your camera the easier life is as a photographer. If it was easy everyone would do it!

Matt

kds1 · June 26, 2009

mmmatt wrote:

If it was easy everyone would do it!

Matt

I know that's right! I have the highest regard for those of you who professionally shoot events and portraits. That is an area I am having a devil of a time getting a handle on. And I think it will be awhile before I am better at it. There really is SO much to learn about my equipment, light and tons of other basic photo stuff.

I hear you on getting it right in the camera. I'm used to doing nature shots, dogs, homesteads (all things that hold relatively still except for the dogs and they even do many times) and one of my problems is the timing on events and also that I can't seem to leave well enough alone while I am editing! I always find something more I want to tweak, turn into a painting, etc.

I'll put a link up to my event (this was my first) when I get them done. Fortunately, I took this event as a learning experience with no pay (it's for my aunt and uncle's 25th anniversary) and can use it to learn from. Although i can tell it will take dozens of events before I get good at it. Not sure I want to go down that path or stick to the other kinds of photography.

ChatKat · June 27, 2009

Events
Kara,

You don't have to shoot events to get good at events. You just need to shoot a lot, study a lot and work hard at it. If you do something like a photo a day project or take a few hours a week to keep shooting and learning. Take a class at the local adult ed or community college, join a camera club, and stay tuned to dgrin you will find that you will get there.

I started shooting in high school and I am in my early 50's. I've been playing with digital for 7 years (I can't believe that!) - photography isn't about picking up a camera and learning it all over night. I can't count how many workshops, lessons, study sessions with fellow photographer and travel and family shots it's taken me to hang out my shingle as a pro. Keep going!

Toshido · June 27, 2009

Not really related as far as subject matter goes but I will chime in as well.

I do basically everything in Lightroom. Takes me from 1-2 minutes for each photo, on average.

That includes white balance, exposure corrections, crops, very rare cloning, etc...

Sometimes a B&W conversion...

When done that batch process them through noiseware if needed then upload.

Like i said, I estimate about 1-2 minutes per photo, normally closer to the 1 minute. Tougher shooting condition could warrant closer to the 2 minute mark.

Art Scott · June 27, 2009

kds1 wrote:

Also, there are several photos that I am finding I want to do more with them - pencil art, painting the photos, etc. More creative stuff in other words.

Many thanks for your suggestions!

Doing this for your portfolio is one thing......but do not offer finished pieces like this upfront with the rest of the album....this is specialty and needs to charged as such....big bucks for all the extra work......put a note in to let them know it can be done or do one of your specials and say I can also provide you with pencil art, painted portraits and so on.........or else the client will not want to pay extra for all the extra work....and never say "ahhh its nothin' just a couple of cliks and I am done".......that'll kill your business in a hurry, it always takes hours on end.......

EDIT:

kds wrote:

I'll put a link up to my event (this was my first) when I get them done. Fortunately, I took this event as a learning experience with no pay (it's for my aunt and uncle's 25th anniversary) and can use it to learn from. Although i can tell it will take dozens of events before I get good at it. Not sure I want to go down that path or stick to the other kinds of photography.

oK do the cool artsy stuff....it is for family.......you did the shooting for free....but when you make your galleries for everyone to look at, if you have a pro type site, then charge a little at least to show how much work you did and what it is worth.......don't just give it away even to family ..... we must keep aour KARMA balanced...........tell them they would not have expected free from any one else and you need to make money for the upkeep on that D300 and also for new / better glass...........

jeffreaux2 · June 27, 2009

I agree that special "enhancements" should not be done free of charge, but if we are talking about color correction, exposure adjustments, and the like, than THAT is on the photographer's dime.

These are the types of corrections that should be avoided in-camera....and if not....then corrected via a batch editor like Lightroom.

For events of this type, I (andany other time I use a camera) SHOOT RAW. This makes minor white balance adjustments in post a simple matter. I also help myself by gelling the flash to match the color temp of tungsten lighting. Then, in Lightroom.....I would import all the RAW images. adjust the white balance for ONE of the images shot in a particular light(the yellow room?) and then synch those settings with ALL of the images shot in that light. Repeating that for those shot outdoors, and then in a second room. A matter of minutes to adjust three images and then synch the adjustments to the applicable images. Thirty minutes tops.

If the exposures are all over the map, then that is an entirely different matter.

Get it right in camera
Shoot RAW
Get Lightroom

Heres a shot from a 50th Birthday party I shot last year. I was paid to shoot the event by one of the guests as a gift to the birthday girl.

The lighting was dismal. The ceilings were black. The room was FULL of people, and flash work was complicated by the baloons and their shadows. I use a single speedlight-on-a-stick and a CTO gel on the flash. In post I kept them warmish, but it took less time to edit the 300 or so keepers than it did to weed out the non-keepers. A single photo...adjusted for white balance and with a dose of noise suppression, then applied (synched) that shot with ALL of those taken that night in that room using Lightroom. I did go back and crop some.....added a quick Lightroom vignette to others. Easy-peasy stuff.

kds1 · June 27, 2009

Wow. Wonderful advice and suggestions from all of you. I certainly don't expect to learn any of this overnight, so no worries on that score! I have been doing 'serious messing around' with photography for about 2 or so years only, so I am still very much swimming in a huge ocean of unknowns - that I will get to know bit by bit.

just this month, I joined the dailies group on smugmug and have really enjoyed it. Great feedback, inspiration and challenge to produce something of value daily. This anniversary was my first dip into events, so a definite learning experience! I agree about not giving away 'extras' to clients. On this run, though, this aunt and uncle have done so much for me and also I'm enjoying doing the artsy stuff while I don't have other stuff going on, so it's okay.

My dailies are on karastewart.net under Art Plus as A Year in the Life is you all would like to look. If you do, you can also probably tell from my other shots that events and people portraits aren't my standard modus operandi! So I really do appreciate your responses and suggestions. I'll take them to heart.

And I'm very glad I joined the smugmug community - lots of great feedback and support!

Thanks again.

Kara

kds1 · June 27, 2009

and Jeff - what a great shot considering the lighting and people and all you had to work with! Love seeing this!

kds1 · June 27, 2009

course suggestions?
Kathy - I did just take an online course at betterphoto.com and was going to take another either there or through Digital Art Academy. Would you have any other suggestions for online courses (I live in a very small, rural area and there is nothing nearby)?

Kara

ChatKat · June 27, 2009

Weekly Assignments
I would suggest you follow the weekly assignments here on Dgrin. Start with number one and work forward. Lots of info there.

kds1 · June 27, 2009

ChatKat wrote:

I would suggest you follow the weekly assignments here on Dgrin. Start with number one and work forward. Lots of info there.

Thanks - I'll check it out!

Kara

kds1 · July 5, 2009

ChatKat wrote:

I would suggest you follow the weekly assignments here on Dgrin. Start with number one and work forward. Lots of info there.

Ummm.... okay, meanwhile LOTS later, I've finally finished the 25th anniversary photos which sparked my question and original post. If anyone would like, you can check them out on karastewart.net, then Events, then Artist's Choice.

I am such a newb to dgrin, durnit, that I haven't even figured out how to post the link to my gallery without having it automatically pull it up from my sign on. Sorry about that.

And also under the "durn it" category, I can't find which weekly assignments on the forum you are referring to ChatKat. I'm sorry! Can you be more specific about where I can find them? I need them!

Thanks so much for your help, all!

Kara

Lisa91 · July 5, 2009

weekly assignments
I would love to do the weekly assignments also. I have so much to learn, sometimes I don't know where to start. I did find The Dgrin Challenges, they are on dss 28. Can a newbie just join in and is this even the right spot? Thanks, Lisa

jeffreaux2 · July 5, 2009

Lisa91 wrote:

I would love to do the weekly assignments also. I have so much to learn, sometimes I don't know where to start. I did find The Dgrin Challenges, they are on dss 28. Can a newbie just join in and is this even the right spot? Thanks, Lisa

I believe Kathy is talking about these assignments in "Techniques"

http://dgrin.com/forumdisplay.php?f=42

The Dgrin Challenges, though, are also open to all comers.

Knock 'em dead!!!:D

...and Lisa....How about some purple and gold for that avitar?....I could hook you up with a nice looking Tiger?

ChatKat · July 5, 2009

Thanks, Jeff for finding the link...that's it!

Qarik · July 6, 2009

I took a look at your set. well no wonder you are taking so long..you are processing every other shot with artistic effects, textures, etc! I think they look good for the most part...but this is from an artistic eye. I do have some concern as to how the customer might react to such a collection. There is quite a variety of processing styles and though imo they fit together for the most part I do have *slight* concern that the subject matter might be too "mature" for the stylistics.

kds1 · July 6, 2009

Qarik wrote:

I took a look at your set. well no wonder you are taking so long..you are processing every other shot with artistic effects, textures, etc! I think they look good for the most part...but this is from an artistic eye. I do have some concern as to how the customer might react to such a collection. There is quite a variety of processing styles and though imo they fit together for the most part I do have *slight* concern that the subject matter might be too "mature" for the stylistics.

Hi - I know what you are saying. And fortunately, they are my aunt and uncle, so I was taking a lot of liberties that I would never take with regular clients - too, I took the job as my present to them, so again, with the liberties artistically. I think you are right that that would never fly for usual customers. Fortunately, they absolutely love the images, as did their guests! Whew!

And again, I've got to say that I don't think I could ever do weddings, events, and that sort of thing professionally - it takes a ton more fast shooting, fast processing than I (can) do! Hats off to pros who do that!

But the event - and even the shot by shot 3 weeks of processing - did teach me a lot. And they got images they love, so all in all, a win-win situation.

I am glad you like them, too. Helps to get a better feel for what I'm doing on a scale of good to bad or something (assuming you would have said so if they sucked!). Thanks so much for taking the time to check them out and for taking the time to comment back about them - very helpful and kind of you.

And thanks to jeffreaux2 for the location of the assignments.

Kara

Event questions

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